Is Cloudy Conjuration worth it?

[Story]

Is Cloudy Conjuration really worth the cost of two feats (assuming you don't specialize in Conjuration)? Feats are valuable, and the effects just seem a bit lackluster.

[Big Fau]

Yes, because it can turn every Conjuration spell you cast into a LoS blocker, and can cost only one feat (Conjurer level 1st overrides the need for Spell Focus).


Edit: Meant LoS.

[Story]

But what if you don't want to specialize?

[Rubik]

But what if you don't want to specialize?Then grab Spell Focus. There are lots of ways to do so, such as buying one of the myriad items which cost about 10,000 gp and using the dark chaos feat shuffle. Also, Conjuration is one of the best schools to specialize in, and it's also a good school for Spell Focus anyway. Not to mention how many good casting PrCs have SF as a prereq.

[AntiTrust]

eh, I'll agree it blocks line of sight, but that's both ways so if you summon in a group of creatures your summons will suffer the same miss chance they will. I tend to pass on it, but I'll admit it has its uses.

[Ravens_cry]

How would Invisible Spell interact with this mess?

[Rubik]

How would Invisible Spell interact with this mess?You'd create an invisible summons who could see through the cloud, but your foe would be blinded (assuming he had See Invisibility up, anyway), and would take the other penalties if the cloud hit him.

[Andreaz]

How would Invisible Spell interact with this mess?The same it would with the fog cloud, I think. The clouds you make this way do become part of the spell being cast.

[eggs]

You can drop it on a summon to give it concealment, drop it on an enemy to debuff its attacks and saves, drop it on yourself for total concealment against ranged attacks.

Maybe all of those won't be useful all the time, but one of them probably will.

It's a nice feat.

[Big Fau]

eh, I'll agree it blocks line of sight, but that's both ways so if you summon in a group of creatures your summons will suffer the same miss chance they will. I tend to pass on it, but I'll admit it has its uses.


You don't use it on summoning spells, you use it on Acid Splash, Orb of Acid, spells like Glitterdust or Black Tentacles, and other spells that target.

[Eldariel]

eh, I'll agree it blocks line of sight, but that's both ways so if you summon in a group of creatures your summons will suffer the same miss chance they will. I tend to pass on it, but I'll admit it has its uses.

You have options on when you use it and how. It's a very versatile feat. You don't have to use the fog cloud to blind your summons if you don't want to. To be more precise:
"When you cast a conjuration spell, you can choose to have a 5-foot-radius cloud of sickening smoke manifest. The cloud can appear in your space, adjacent to you, or in the space of or adjacent to your target (if any). The cloud lasts for 1 round."

It doesn't hurt Spell Focus: Conjuration is the best Spell Focus; it targets every save with potent save-or-loses from low levels and has few important applications even higher-up, both Core-only and with all books.

[Piggy Knowles]

I can't remember the last time I've cast a targeted conjuration spell with my current wizard, other than Acid Splash once when I wanted to test something.

Honestly, my current wizard forgets about his Cloudy Conjuration feat more often than not, but that's mostly because even though the original plan was to be a BFC-focused conjurer, the party dynamics have played out in such a way that he ends up spending a lot more of his time on buffs instead. (The monk and swashbuckler seem to really enjoy being flying treants and reduced cave trolls and so on, and playing this way keeps them happy in a game with a lot of VERY mage-friendly house rules.)

My main use for it currently is for swift action concealment - I cast Blockade as a swift action and place the cloud in front of me when needed. That doesn't come up as necessary every session, but it never hurts to have. If I went out of my way to find more uses for the feat, I'm sure I could.

[Thespianus]

You have options on when you use it and how. It's a very versatile feat. You don't have to use the fog cloud to blind your summons if you don't want to.

I just noticed that there is no save: You auto-sicken the target, correct? That is even sweeter. If you combine it with an Orb of (say) Cold, you can both Blind and Sicken the target, letting the Party Rogue shine like a Sneak Attacking star on his next move.

[Gnorman]

I just noticed that there is no save: You auto-sicken the target, correct? That is even sweeter. If you combine it with an Orb of (say) Cold, you can both Blind and Sicken the target, letting the Party Rogue shine like a Sneak Attacking star on his next move.

Just make sure the rogue has a way of getting around concealment or seeing through the cloud, as that would prevent it from sneak attacking normally.

[Thespianus]

Just make sure the rogue has a way of getting around concealment or seeing through the cloud, as that would prevent it from sneak attacking normally.

Ah, yes. That is true.

[Big Fau]

Just a note on Invisible Spell: The cloud is created by the feat Cloudy Conjuration, not the Conjuration spell you actually cast. Invisible Spell would only affect the spell itself.

[Story]

I just noticed that there is no save: You auto-sicken the target, correct? That is even sweeter. If you combine it with an Orb of (say) Cold, you can both Blind and Sicken the target, letting the Party Rogue shine like a Sneak Attacking star on his next move.

Until you come up against undead or constructs of course.

[Thespianus]

Until you come up against undead or constructs of course.

There is still the LoS block that can be used in those cases.

[Andezzar]

Until you come up against undead or constructs of course.And there are ways around that as well (ACFs, greater demolition/truedeath crystal or a wand of grave/golem/plant strike preferably in a wand chamber)

[Piggy Knowles]

And there are ways around that as well (ACFs, greater demolition/truedeath crystal or a wand of grave/golem/plant strike preferably in a wand chamber)

True, although there's still the issue that concealment stops sneak attack as well. Seems like more of a hindrance than otherwise, when Glitterdust alone will do fine for enabling SA.

[Story]

Even if you can find a way to sneak attack the undead, they won't be sickened.

[Acanous]

Cloudy Conjuration is also your feat, and you get to choose the order of operations on your effects.

So things that CAN be sickened ARE sickened, before they get their save VS the spell effect.

[Spuddles]

Cloudy Conjuration is also your feat, and you get to choose the order of operations on your effects.

So things that CAN be sickened ARE sickened, before they get their save VS the spell effect.

You've got it mixed up. The target gets to choose what affects him. It's why strength damage + ray of enfeeblement will never drop a target to 0 str unless str damage = target's strength.

[Phaederkiel]

If I recall right you need to be a specialised conjurer to get abrupt jaunt.

So, from a power perspective: what reason could be not to specialise?

and then you could well take cloudy, it seems very good.

I myself did not take it, but I was going Ultimate Magus and had another set of priorities.

[Story]

Cloudy Conjuration is also your feat, and you get to choose the order of operations on your effects.

So things that CAN be sickened ARE sickened, before they get their save VS the spell effect.

The feat specifically says that the cloud appears simultaneously with the spell effect, not before or after it.

Also, what I was trying to point out is that nonliving creatures are completely immune to the sickening effect. As are those with poison immunity.