How does Pun Pun get every ability?

[Silva Stormrage]

I understand the basis of how Pun Pun gets his abilities and nigh infinite stats and every written ability in the game. What I don't understand is how some people seem to say that he can just create new abilities out of thin air? Like "No Weaknesses" Or "Instantly wins all fights". How does he create new abilities?

Thanks for your help.

[NotScaryBats]

afaik those aren't meant to be explicit abilities of his, just implications of having infinite every stat and every ability.

[Morcleon]

I understand the basis of how Pun Pun gets his abilities and nigh infinite stats and every written ability in the game. What I don't understand is how some people seem to say that he can just create new abilities out of thin air? Like "No Weaknesses" Or "Instantly wins all fights". How does he create new abilities?

Thanks for your help.

<.< ... (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicSpells.htm) *looks away* (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#divineCreation)

Your imagination is the only limit. :smalltongue::smallwink:

[AuraTwilight]

Pun-Pun has infinite Divine Ranks. Work it out.

[Big Fau]

The actual ability is Manipulate Form, gained off of the Sarruhk from Serpent Kingdoms. This, in turn, lets you create a creature that has Epic spells as at-will Ex abilities.


Epic spells were all ready capable of doing literally anything, but Manipulate Form allows a level 1 character to bypass Epic magic's largest restrictions (cost to create, level restrictions).

[Silva Stormrage]

The actual ability is Manipulate Form, gained off of the Sarruhk from Serpent Kingdoms. This, in turn, lets you create a creature that has Epic spells as at-will Ex abilities.


Epic spells were all ready capable of doing literally anything, but Manipulate Form allows a level 1 character to bypass Epic magic's largest restrictions (cost to create, level restrictions).

Got it this makes a lot more sense. I thought Manipulate form might let you just add any ability whatsoever. Abusing divine ranks and epic spells make sense. Thanks guys!

[absolmorph]

Got it this makes a lot more sense. I thought Manipulate form might let you just add any ability whatsoever. Abusing divine ranks and epic spells make sense. Thanks guys!
Er... It can, IIRC. The text says a sarrukh (the initial holder of Manipulate Form) can grant any extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like ability.
They give no restrictions on such things.

Yes, it's rather ridiculous. But this is Pun-Pun.

[mattie_p]

Manipulate Form/Pun-pun is one of those things I wish I could dispute by RAW (like the idiot crusader, which doesn't work at early levels despite the FAQ), but can't yet.

[docnessuno]

Pun-Pun, in its latest incarnation at least, is the apex of TO. It's called the most powerful character EVER with good reason, and comes online from level 1 to boot.
Excluding Rule 0, Pun-Pun is a achievable in any RaW campaign where the sourcebooks are allowed.

[The Random NPC]

Basically manipulate form is so poorly written that you can technically add abilities that don't exist in the game. However, divine ranks and epic spells is a "better" way of going about it.

[VGLordR2]

Got it this makes a lot more sense. I thought Manipulate form might let you just add any ability whatsoever. Abusing divine ranks and epic spells make sense. Thanks guys!

A lot of people interpret it that way, based on this line:

A sarrukh may also grant the target an extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like ability or remove one from it.

I think that this is shaky at best, though. The game only defines certain things as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like abilities, and those are the options you have. You could use the same logic to invent any feat you want, based on text like this:

A human character also gets a bonus feat at 1st level, chosen by the player.

So, really, I don't think Manipulate Form can actually give any made-up ability.