I've created a God, I think [Pathfinder]

[13ones]

I'm going to be running one of my very first games next semester and I've statted up my first ever 'god' tier character. Basically it is a character whom the party will have interactions with, acting as sort of support role for the characters in the party. However if one of them is dumb enough to attack him I figured I better give him some stats. I've built him to be near unbeatable and really tough just for ****s and giggles. I'm posting here for a bit of feed back and to get some decent reactions.

Below are what my god, Viscen, God of Death and Time, The Reaper God, will be running.

VISCEN, GOD OF DEATH AND TIME. THE REAPER GOD. CR 30
XP 3,688,400
True Neutral outsider (Neutral, extraplanar)
Init +19; Senses darkvision 240 ft; deathwatch, true seeing; Perception +20
Aura Slowing Aura

DEFENSE
AC 46, touch 46, flat-footed 27 (+19 Dex, +17 Deflection)
hp 780; regeneration 35
Fort +37, Ref +38, Will +47
Defensive Abilities freedom of movement, improved evasion; DR 20/epic; Immune ability damage, ability drain,blindness, death effects, energy drain, Cold, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep Resist acid 20, fire 20, electricity 20; SR 40

OFFENSE
Speed 60 ft., climb 40 ft., fly 180 ft (average).
Special Attacks Reaper’s touch, Grasp of the Dead, Time Warp

TACTICS
Rather than dirty his own hands the God of Death will summon undead to do the fighting for him. The Reaper God wishes to avoid combat at all possible opportunities but if backed into a corner he will crush any beneath his boot. Given access to both Divine and Arcane Necromancy spells the Reaper God will stop at nothing until whoever attacks him is stopped. If facing a particularly difficult foe that may actually kill him, the Reaper God will bend the flow of time to have an outcome in his favour, or will simply flee into the time line to strike again at a more favourable time.

STATISTICS
Str 35, Dex 49, Con 45, Int 60, Wis 40, Cha 40
Base Atk +33; CMB +45 (47 on bull rush); CMD 74 (76 vs. bull rush, 80 vs trip)
Feats
Skills Knowledge(All) +50, Climb +20, Fly +45, Perception +35, Stealth +50, Use Magic Device +50, Sense Motive +25, Heal +50, Intimidate +40, Bluff +40, Diplomacy +20, Disguise +20, Spellcraft +50, Swim +20
Languages All
SQ Breathless, Unlimited Spells , Distortion, God of Necromancy, Ghost Form, Lord of the Dead

SPECIAL ABILITIES

Reaper’s Touch (SU)
Viscen becomes a conduit for negative energy and the chill powers of death, allowing him to make a melee touch attack dealing 1d6 points of damage from negative energy per level plus the target’s level

Deathwatch (Su)
Viscen can sense life and death, as if under the effects of a deathwatch spell at all times.

Freedom of Movement (Su)
Viscen is constantly protected by freedom of movement, as per the spell.
Improved Evasion (Ex)
This ability works like the monk special ability of the same name.

Grasp of the Dead (Ex)
Viscen can cause a swarm of skeletal arms to burst from the ground to rip and tear at his foes. The skeletal arms erupt from the ground in a 40-foot-radius burst. Anyone in this area takes 6d6 points of slashing damage per level. Those caught in the area receive a Reflex save for quarter damage. Those who fail the save are unable to move for 1 round. The DC of this save is 45. The skeletal arms disappear after 1 round. The arms must burst up from a solid surface.

Regeneration (Su)
Viscen regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the Viscen fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill him instantly, the effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to Viscen’s full normal hit point total +20 (normally 800 points of damage). The Viscen is also immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds (such as a clay golem’s cursed wound or a wounding weapon). There are whispers of powerful magical artifacts or weapons that can deal leathal damage to the Reaper God.

Breathless (Su)
Viscen does not need to breath, even when buried alive or submerged in water. He is immune to any effects that would cause suffocation or loss of breath.


Unlimited Spells (Su)
Viscen has no limit on spells he can cast in a day, for he is able to tap into the unlimited resources of the Arcane and the Divine itself. Viscen may access any spell at will.

True Seeing (Su)
Viscen continuously uses this ability, as the spell.

Distortion (Su)
Viscen, as a standard action, has an aura of distortion around him in a 40-ft radius centered on his person or any location he chooses. There may only be one distortion effect up at any time. Any creatures caught within the aura have their movement speed reduced by half and may only take a single action per round.

God of Necromancy (Su)
Viscen has full access to both Wizard and Cleric spell lists’ necromancy spells. The DCs of all Necromancy spells are increased by 10 when cast by Viscen. Viscen is immune to all Necromancy spells.

Ghost Form (Su)
As a standard action Viscen can become incorporeal for 1 minute. While in this form, Viscen gains the incorporeal subtype. Viscen will only take half damage from corporeal sources as long as they are magic (you take no damage from non-magic weapons and objects). Likewise, your spells deal only half damage to corporeal creatures. Spells and other effects that do not deal damage function normally.

Time Warp (Sp)
As a swift action Viscen may warp the effects of time causing one of the following effects. Viscen can rewind or fast-forward through time causing a jump of anywhere between 1 and 3 rounds in either direction. Viscen can force a reroll of a single player. Viscen rips a hole in time as if the spell Gate, allowing him to escape combat. Viscen may rapidly cause age to change of a character, going up or down two age categories.

Lord of the Dead(Ex)
The Reaper God is the lord of the Death in his plane. As a swift action he may summon 1d4 of any undead creature to his side, which is instantly under his command. As a swift action Viscen can cause hostile undead to instantly become enthralled as if through a successful Dominate Person spell. As the Reaper God is the Lord of Death even if he is killed he will only stay dead for a single round.

[lord pringle]

The problem with this is that, since he has all of those SPECUL POWAHS!!1!11ELEVEN!, why doesn't he just solve everything himself? He doesn't need to fear anything, seeing as he literally can't die.

[13ones]

Simple. It's not his damned problem and he doesn't give a rats ass. The party finds him, he sends them to get stuff for them because why should he step away from his work to do some task like save the world? You know, as Gods tend to do.

[lord pringle]

Simple. It's not his damned problem and he doesn't give a rats ass. The party finds him, he sends them to get stuff for them because why should he step away from his work to do some task like save the world? You know, as Gods tend to do.

If he has infinite magic, why doesn't he create simulacrums of himself and have them solve everything. Or cast something else to save the day. I dunno, I just don't like working for people who could end all strife in the world but don't because they're lazy.

[13ones]

If he has infinite magic, why doesn't he create simulacrums of himself and have them solve everything. Or cast something else to save the day. I dunno, I just don't like working for people who could end all strife in the world but don't because they're lazy.

Not his world, not his problem, but happy to take credit where credit is due. It's all explained in the story of the game. He's one of about five possible people the party could be working for. The only reason I did this statting was to deter the party from trying to attack him since I have a player in the game who is rather FAMOUS for trying to shank things he shouldn't, and some how still winning. I don't even actually expect the fact that he is a God to come up nor for his combat stats to ever be used I did it more for fun.

And to give the basics, he was summoned to this world from his own plane by a group of Evil Epic level adventurers who wanted a powerful Necromancer to add to their party. They unknowingly got a God. He eventually got bored of taking over the world with them and left to do his tinkering/job. But because of the epic nature of the spell that conjured him he cannot actually leave that world until it is either under the rule of that Evil party or until they die at the hands of someone that isn't him.

[Aegis013]

Not his world, not his problem, but happy to take credit where credit is due. It's all explained in the story of the game. He's one of about five possible people the party could be working for. The only reason I did this statting was to deter the party from trying to attack him since I have a player in the game who is rather FAMOUS for trying to shank things he shouldn't, and some how still winning.

Giving anything stats in the first place generally secures its vulnerability. I'm sure someone high enough OP can create a combo to kill this thing.

Plus, you've mentioned that it's one of the five possibilities of employers, which is good, but I have to give credence to lord pringle's concerns; I'd feel the same way.

[Anyr]

I was once in a party that worked for someone like this. Their patron was an umpty-hundredth level archmage instead of a god, but the principle was the same. He was ridiculously powerful, fond of sending people on quests which he could have completed in the blink of an eye, and fully statted just in case anyone was foolish enough to attack him.

I quickly grew to despise this man. Thanks to him, the campaign's plot ceased to have any meaning or significance to us. We became nothing more than extras in our own story. Even if we'd all dropped dead on the spot, it wouldn't have made any difference to the course of events. How could it, when our patron was capable of creating replacement adventurers without even leaving his chair? The whole experience was very frustrating.

Of course, that's just a personal anecdote. It's possible that your players will have an entirely different reaction to such a character. Just keep in mind that it's hard for people to feel like heroes when they're completely superfluous.

[TopCheese]

I was once in a party that worked for someone like this. Their patron was an umpty-hundredth level archmage instead of a god, but the principle was the same. He was ridiculously powerful, fond of sending people on quests which he could have completed in the blink of an eye, and fully statted just in case anyone was foolish enough to attack him.

I quickly grew to despise this man. Thanks to him, the campaign's plot ceased to have any meaning or significance to us. We became nothing more than extras in our own story. Even if we'd all dropped dead on the spot, it wouldn't have made any difference to the course of events. How could it, when our patron was capable of creating replacement adventurers without even leaving his chair? The whole experience was very frustrating.

Of course, that's just a personal anecdote. It's possible that your players will have an entirely different reaction to such a character. Just keep in mind that it's hard for people to feel like heroes when they're completely superfluous.

So um... Was his name by chance Sarda?

[Arcanist]

If he has infinite magic, why doesn't he create simulacrums of himself and have them solve everything. Or cast something else to save the day. I dunno, I just don't like working for people who could end all strife in the world but don't because they're lazy.

This has always been my problem with Gods. If they can do anything, why the hell are we out adventuring? :smallconfused:

Personally, I've actually had good results from an Omni-adventurer guiding the party. Eventually the parties goal because simply topping the Omni-adventurer off his/her throne. In my opinion this is what makes working for the Thieves Guild all the more fun :smalltongue: The Guildmaster is singing "Anything you can do, I can do better!" someone tries to attack her, as to where she immediately dodges, tumbles to gain distance, quick drawing a dart laced with drow poison to knock him out and then stand up, walks over to a table continuing her song and detail the mission to the smart members of the party :smallamused:

[13ones]

I can understand the concerns. But the statting was more for fun and just in case anyone in the party wanted to try attacking him. He's one of five (for now) possible 'employers' as it is but that doesn't mean he is going to have a lot of screen time. The way I figure it will go is this.

- Resistance leader mentions corpses going missing after skirmishes, sends the party to go and find out why
- Party follows the trail to the sewers, puzzles, undead, traps, eventually find lair of the Necromancer
- Necromancer, rather than deal with them directly sicks his flesh golem on them, sometimes animates a bunch of skeletons for added pain in the butt
- Flesh golem goes down, boss encounter ends, Role playing with Necromancer.
- Necromancer gives them some hints as to what is going on, gives them some advice, answers some questions and then proceeds to start packing up so he can just leave
- Party attacks him: He defends himself without nuking the party
- Party Lets him go: He just leaves
- The party wont see him again for quite some time, at least until nearer the end when he will be more forthcoming about what is actually out in the desert.
- Assists the party in defending the city from the oncoming threat
- Thanks them, rewards them with powerful relics and then vanishes.
- Not seen again until he comes to claim the souls of the Evil Adventuring party that originally bound him.

Regardless I just have this scene in my head. "I sneak attack the Necromancer!" "Really? Okay. Ac of 49, you miss. He casts Flesh to stone, DC 35. You're level 10, he turns you to stone. He then instantly teleports you back to the party, turns you back into flesh and mocks you a bunch." *silence* "Anyone else wanna attack the Necromancer?"

[Nabirius]

I was once in a party that worked for someone like this. Their patron was an umpty-hundredth level archmage instead of a god, but the principle was the same. He was ridiculously powerful, fond of sending people on quests which he could have completed in the blink of an eye, and fully statted just in case anyone was foolish enough to attack him.

I quickly grew to despise this man. Thanks to him, the campaign's plot ceased to have any meaning or significance to us. We became nothing more than extras in our own story. Even if we'd all dropped dead on the spot, it wouldn't have made any difference to the course of events. How could it, when our patron was capable of creating replacement adventurers without even leaving his chair? The whole experience was very frustrating.

Of course, that's just a personal anecdote. It's possible that your players will have an entirely different reaction to such a character. Just keep in mind that it's hard for people to feel like heroes when they're completely superfluous.

I had a very similar experience with a campaign my friend ran, except there were no less than 4 of these people. One was an epic-level wizard of some sort, who was also a dragon, and he was sending us on quests so he wouldn't have to get up from crafting epic level magic items in the course of minutes. The second was a level 45 Artificer/Some other unspecified classes. He was arguably worse, but for a while he was less annoying than the dragon. The other was a 30-40 something cleric, with almost total precognition. And the king, a psychic of some kind.

Needless to say we, the adventures, were thoroughly frustrated at the whole ordeal and ended the campaign a bit early.

So to the OP, I would recommend against this type of character.

[WildPyre]

I've used characters like this to varying degrees of effectiveness, usually a high level mage. There should always be a reason why they don't do it themselves, even if it's not always immediately clear to the players.

-Maybe they're forbidden to intervine for one reason or another. Works well for a god, one god being forbidden by pacts to take direct action against another god or in the course of mortal events.

-Maybe this person understands that the world will need other heroes or that these heroes need to be allowed to let their stories play out. My mage normally claims this when I use him, the strands of the weave and the strands of fate being connected or summat.

-Have them work in mysterious ways, like it was said in Futurama 'If you've done everything right, they won't know you've done anything at all.' Send the group on some banal fetch mission and let them stumble on the evil scheme the BBEG is working up near where the rare flower you sent them to find, grows.

-Heck maybe it's all a trick and the benifactor isn't as nice as they seem. Everything the PCs have been doing in the name of good has actually helped a far greater evil come to power...

For what it's worth, some players loved my high level mage, while one took quite an exception to him, growing frustrated and angry with him when he'd answer in riddles and send her out to find answers for herself in her quest rather than outright saying "Oh the thing you need to kill the uber vampire is in my basement."

[ngilop]

there is one very very fatal flaw in giving your diety stats

You made him killable.

Giving him numerical statistics gives him a hard edge on his limits. and if there is one thing that players can do.. its find a way to end the existance of somethig with limits.


But if it is not his problem why is he even helping at all?
Not his world not his problem I think is what you said verbatim

If a diety does not care what happens one way or another why is one even taking a side to begin with?

[13ones]

If asked the God would state "Not my world, not my problems, I'll offer what I know but I won't clean up the messes of your world. Children need to learn to walk on their own eventually."

If pressed "Do you really want a God to wage war on the evils of your world? Do you know what the end result is of that? I destroy a chunk of your world." or "I'm not a God of good or evil. I am Death, neutrality in its most perfect form. Everything dies, everything withers and that is the natural order, the balance of things. I am not disrupting the balance of this world simply because YOU want a short cut..."

I have it all planned out, in honesty. I really just wanted to share these stats :D

Now, honest opinions if a God gave you any of these three answers would that satisfy you?

[13ones]

there is one very very fatal flaw in giving your diety stats

You made him killable.

Giving him numerical statistics gives him a hard edge on his limits. and if there is one thing that players can do.. its find a way to end the existance of somethig with limits.


But if it is not his problem why is he even helping at all? I think is what you said verbatim

If a diety does not care what happens one way or another why is one even taking a side to begin with?

Simple. He was summoned and bound to this world by Party A. So he will gladly offer what he can to help Party B smack them around, if for no other reason than to watch them get smacked around.

And as for making him killable....it'll be next to impossible for the party to do so at the levels they would actually interact with him.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Simple. He was summoned and bound to this world by Party A. So he will gladly offer what he can to help Party B smack them around, if for no other reason than to watch them get smacked around.

And as for making him killable....it'll be next to impossible for the party to do so at the levels they would actually interact with him.

Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu, I want Manipulate Form...

[Raven777]

Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu, I want Manipulate Form...

Alas, Sarukh are not in Pathfinder :'(

[Slipperychicken]

I've played in games with NPCs like this. Some (awful) DMs seem to think that absurdly, game-shatteringly powerful questgiver NPCs like this which "don't give a rat's ass about anything" are somehow cool or interesting. They aren't.

I'm sure that this guy will quickly earn the ire of your players, and any humiliation they manage to inflict on it will be hailed as a glorious victory. I know I'm infuriated when I try to deal with this kind of character. It's much like a Mary Sue god-mode, except no-one's pretending it's a decent person (mostly the DM pretending it's a Neutral person, or Chaotic Douche, and definitely not Evil).

I also find that DMs generally have these guys act like complete bullies to the PCs, yet insist this guy is True Neutral/Chaotic Neutral because "He's not Evil, he just don't give a ****", or something along those lines (usually followed by a smirk or Trollface). I think it has to do with horrible DMs acting out their power fantasies through dnd, and trying to excuse their behavior through apathy.

So yeah, I think using this guy in a game is a bad idea.

[Aegis013]

Now, honest opinions if a God gave you any of these three answers would that satisfy you?

They would infuriate me. He basically said "I can do it with less effort than it takes you to get out of bed in the morning, but I won't because I said so."

His reasoning is on par with a toddler, and I would seriously discuss with the group changing our primary goal to the eradication his existence, even if it required complete derailment from the story, by positing that having such a powerful super-being with such an enormous lack of responsibility and reasoning is at least as threatening to the world as whatever other thing we might have to do.

Seriously, this is a bad idea.

[Deadline]

Now, honest opinions if a God gave you any of these three answers would that satisfy you?

Well, no. If the God doesn't care to see the task done, then why is he giving you the task to begin with?

[Venusaur]

But because of the epic nature of the spell that conjured him he cannot actually leave that world until it is either under the rule of that Evil party or until they die at the hands of someone that isn't him.

The spell will release him if the evil adventurers who summoned him die, but not if he kills them. So, he decides to get the party to do his dirty work. Seems logical to me.

[TopCheese]

there is one very very fatal flaw in giving your diety stats

You made him killable.

Giving him numerical statistics gives him a hard edge on his limits. and if there is one thing that players can do.. its find a way to end the existance of somethig with limits.


But if it is not his problem why is he even helping at all? I think is what you said verbatim

If a diety does not care what happens one way or another why is one even taking a side to begin with?

My first DM (rookie DM) made himself a character sheet dubbed "Overmaster DM" and had all kinds of crazy stats and defenses...

He never saw it coming when the level 19 party was able to rip him a new one... The look on his face was priceless. My clericzilla was part of it and I didn't even know it till the last session when they told me to ask for certain spells from my god...

Yeah rule of thumb is number = killable

[NikitaDarkstar]

Characters like this CAN work IF done right, but the more power they have the more good, solid reason does it need for doing what it's doing (or not doing) and to be frank, your character seems to have a severe case of "Going to piss the players off" going. You see, it's not really the amount of screen-time that's important for a character like this, it's the how's and why's that are (even more so than usual).

I'd be careful with this one, and possibly debuff him if need be. Have most of his powers sealed by the spell that summoned him or something similar so it's more that he CAN'T do what needs to be done even if he wanted to.

Also, he's a Death and Time God, why on Earth can't he just wait for the people who summoned him to grow old and die? Even friggin dragons die sooner or later.

EDIT: PS, Numbers do indeed mean killable. If you don't want it killable you don't stat it. Especially when.. well lets just say I don't find his AC THAT impressive. (And he really should have evasion, uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge also... :P)

[Spuddles]

Does your god also have long black (or white) hair that covers his face mysteriously? Cause he should, so when a PC asks a stupid question he can *flip hair* with contempt.

Also make sure he has a weird or overly large weapon that has a non-typical base dice value, like d10s or d12s.

I think you would be better off leaving out some of his defensive stats like AC and saves so when the party gets jealous of his power, you won't even have to roll dice. He can just ignore their spells because he substitutes a steely glance for a will save or a dodge to the side with backflip/hair flip to avoid any attacks.

Otherwise it looks like you have a great DMPC!

[BigKahuna]

I have to agree with the other posters, I have one of these over-powered characters in my current campaign and he is infuriating to the point that it is now the goal of many of us to kill him (he is not the BBEG). What is really pissing us off is the fact that he continually mocks us, an action which would provoke violence if it weren't for the fact that the DM has stated numerous times that it would be impossible for us to kill him. Instead we are just getting really irritated with him.

[TopCheese]

I have to agree with the other posters, I have one of these over-powered characters in my current campaign and he is infuriating to the point that it is now the goal of many of us to kill him (he is not the BBEG). What is really pissing us off is the fact that he continually mocks us, an action which would provoke violence if it weren't for the fact that the DM has stated numerous times that it would be impossible for us to kill him. Instead we are just getting really irritated with him.

I have a solution.

Attack him in full force and never stop, keep telling "yo momma" jokes to the DMPC until he squashes your PCs.

Sounds like your DM is using his DMPC to be an ass. Seriously? It sounds like the DM is using the DMPC as a shield to mock you guys...

Anyways... Roll up new characters and if the DM brings the same DMPC to the table... Attack the DMPC again and again till the DM gets it that he is being annoying and pissing you off.

[Slipperychicken]

I have a solution.

Attack him in full force and never stop, keep telling "yo momma" jokes to the DMPC until he squashes your PCs.


You could just talk to him and express your concerns. You know, like adults. Get all the concerned players together and have an intervention. If it's really bad, you could even (collectively) threaten to boycott his games if he doesn't change his bad-DMing ways.

You could also try letting other people DM in a sort of "round-robin" style. Different people DMing different sessions (or campaigns) in a rotation of sorts might give everyone, including the Bad DM, some perspective on how to (and how *not* to) run a game.

[BigKahuna]

You could just talk to him and express your concerns. You know, like adults. Get all the concerned players together and have an intervention. If it's really bad, you could even (collectively) threaten to boycott his games if he doesn't change his bad-DMing ways.

You could also try letting other people DM in a sort of "round-robin" style. Different people DMing different sessions (or campaigns) in a rotation of sorts might give everyone, including the Bad DM, some perspective on how to (and how *not* to) run a game.

We have talked to him about it, but he wants the character to be irritating so he doesn't see the problem. The thing is he's actually a good DM (if a little railroady, but he's trying to work on that) he just seems to have a weakness for what he calls "stonewall" characters who he thinks will make the world more real because the PC's can't beat them until a certain level. I'd be fine with this, and expect it because otherwise the world would be too focused on the PC's, but the problem is that this character is the only NPC apart from my cohort who has actually been in more than one session, leaving us low on recurring NPCs and putting a bit of distance between our characters and the game world at large.

As for the round robin thing, that is actually what we are doing right now. He is our second DM in a continuing campaign (we are 10th level and he took over at 7th level) and it is working quite well.

[Sewercop]

Im more interested in seeing where I can find the sources for your "god build".
All I see are numbers and abillities pulled out of an hat and slapped on a sheet.

This is just like dmpc`s, annoying as hell. I would try my best to kill it every time i got a chance.

[13ones]

I took inspiration from Achaekek the mantis god (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/achaekek-the-mantis-god) as well as a few of his stats. I basically homebrewed the rest of it just to try and fill it out.

Basically what you guys are saying is that I shouldn't use this just for the simple fact that you can't understand why he wouldn't just fix the problem on his own? Fine, lemme give you a little back story.

Viscen, my God here, is from another world, and actually is part of a few other pathfinder games I've been part of. He usually winds up summoned or teleported to other worlds and planes in order to be the big grand hero that saves the multi-verse or the demi-plane or whatever. He did this for a few decades until he stumbled into the path of a being who tried to steal the power of one of the gods of his world. The plane failed but the power needed to go to a new person for the original god was 'destroyed' and since that kind of power doesn't just go away Viscen took up the mantle of the new god of Death.

So jump to a few hundred years after Viscen goes from being an ageing adventure to an all powerful God. He spent that time doing his duty as the caretaker of the dead, ushering the dead to their respective after-lives and of course creating new forms of undead creatures. He finds himself ripped from his home in the divine plane of his world and dropped right into the laps of this evil adventuring party. They wanted a powerful Necromancer from another plane to conjure armies for them and they bound what they assume to be an epic level caster to their will. Viscen is weakened by the spell and forced to play along for awhile. When enough of his power comes back that he can resist the call of the spell he just leaves, deciding to do a little bit of poking around this planet.

Years pass and his power is still weak. He eventually finds himself drawn to the biggest source of Necromancy in the world. He begins to leech from it in order to return to full strength so he can simply break the spell and return home, all the while going about his business of ushering the dead as best he can and of course creating new forms of undead. And low and behold only a few weeks of doing that and an adventuring party stumbles into his lair and bests one of his new creations. Well in his mind he is retired. He saved the world a few times over and he sees potential in this group. So rather than FIX their problem for them he gives them the tools they need to do it on their own. He is retired and he just wants to go home.

He could probably fix it on his own, yes but why would he risk such a thing? Why would he cripple this world by denying potential heroes the skills they need to be champions of this world. Why should the Gods have to step in and fix every single mortal problem? So he gives them what help he deems appropriate and then sends them on their way while continuing to try and get home. The party killing the evil over-lords and sending him home is plan A. If they fail he has a Plan B through F.

So yeah, I hope this gives more insight onto how I intend to play this character. And as I have said this is not going to be the primary character the party will interact with. There is also the rebel leader, the ghost of a former priestess, the arrogant duellist captain of the empire's guard, a cult of fanatic druids lead astray by a madded and long stranded fay creature, a mummified emperor, the evil adventuring party themselves, a sort of fantasy version of the prohibition era Mafia and their version of the Godfather and many more.

I've put more thought into this than originally let on.

[Raven777]

Backstory actually makes sense. Thing is, he doesn't have to be "unkillable" for it to keep making sense. All the "I-Win button" abilities you slapped on him are just cheesy overkill.

Most interesting heroes are fallible. That's how they overcome their flaws that makes their tale interesting. If your NPC, even being a god, cannot ever be surprised... cannot ever be threatened... cannot ever doubt... cannot ever be challenged... he's boooooooooring.

[Slipperychicken]

Most interesting heroes are fallible. That's how they overcome their flaws that makes their tale interesting. If your NPC, even being a god, cannot ever be surprised... cannot ever be threatened... cannot ever doubt... cannot ever be challenged... he's boooooooooring.

This. It's even worse if he winds up coming off as obnoxious.


EDIT: Actually, if he was fallible, that would be a much more satisfying reason to pass the buck to the heroes -He's just not strong enough to risk his life for someone else's world. He's a weakened god anyway, so it wouldn't even be a stretch.

[erikun]

The best way I've found to dealing with PCs is to give them what they want, just not quite how they wanted it.

So what do they want from this guy? Quests, presumably, which is what he is designed to hand out. What else will they want? Well, they'll probably want Mr God of Undead to make them some undead. Okay, so he makes them each a skeleton to follow each around and do whatever they say. Except the skeleton always does the first (follow the character around) over the second (do whatever the character says), and so will follow them right into town regardless of objections. Just make his cave a bit of a walk from anything interesting, so they can't just pop in any time they have 5 spare minutes.

What else? Weapons? Well, he could probably make spear or blade out of bone, and wrap the handguards in (untreated) skin. Magic weapons? I suppose he could animate them, if the party really wanted. New spells? I doubt anyone in the party will care much about epic level magic at this point, and his old spellbook is do doubt back at home.

--

Other than that, the character looks very boring. He is using the party to get home early, unless they fail, in which case he gets home a bit later with Plan B, or he gets home a few years later when the evil party dies of old age, or he gets home a bit later than that when he gets strong enough to leave. The entire benefit the party is providing is to slightly convenience him. It's like sending the party on a epic quest to pick up a carton of milk afterwards so that he doesn't need to do so on his Saturday shopping trip. Expect nobody to care.

Second, he's a DMPC. Worse, he's your own person PC from another game injected into this one. Those are by far the worst ones, and most likely to be hated by the party.

Also, his stats aren't that impressive. AC 46 and DR 20 aren't going to mean much to a well-organized party, although one with moderate optimization or less will probably be stopped at it. The rest, minus his free spellcasting, can be avoided with just Fly and Freedom of Movement. I'm not quite sure what "Aura Slowing Aura" is supposed to even be.

I'd recommend just statting him up as a high level (lv.21-lv.25) spellcaster, possibly a lich for theoretical death-immunity, and get rid of all the extra stuff. He's supposed to be weakened and not strong enough to leave yet. Granting him the ability to travel planarly and bind demons to do his wishes makes his "imprisonment" on this world just all the more silly.

[Aegis013]

He could probably fix it on his own, yes but why would he risk such a thing? Why would he cripple this world by denying potential heroes the skills they need to be champions of this world. Why should the Gods have to step in and fix every single mortal problem? So he gives them what help he deems appropriate and then sends them on their way while continuing to try and get home. The party killing the evil over-lords and sending him home is plan A. If they fail he has a Plan B through F.

So what I'm seeing here, is that he wants to manipulate some poor sods into fixing HIS personal problem because he looks down (in an insulting kind of way) on the "heroes" (PCs) of this world and deems them not worthy of handling their own problems, so he wants them to fix his?

Yeah, I'm still entirely against this.

Not to mention, if he's building his power back, why rely on the help of others and possibly owe them something down the road? Doesn't even seem like it's really in his best interests. I would still really consult the party about changing primary objective to his death.

[13ones]

So what I'm seeing here, is that he wants to manipulate some poor sods into fixing HIS personal problem because he looks down (in an insulting kind of way) on the "heroes" (PCs) of this world and deems them not worthy of handling their own problems, so he wants them to fix his?

Yeah, I'm still entirely against this.

Not to mention, if he's building his power back, why rely on the help of others and possibly owe them something down the road? Doesn't even seem like it's really in his best interests. I would still really consult the party about changing primary objective to his death.

Sounds more like you, as a play, have an issue with these type of characters. I've given decent reasoning behind why he could not act, I feel. If you are still not satisfied I do believe that is something you need to look at. Final rational I'll give for him that I would use.

"I've peeked at the end, at the way to the end, all of your time lines. Say I could just fix this problem, and the next one, and the one after that, where does that leave all you? Dependent on me, someone who would rather not be here. Say I just fix this problem then go home? Well then that messes up the time line again. It leaves you stuck here, unprepared and untested for the next great evil, and there always is a bigger fish boys and girls. So you all charge into it headlong, get slaughtered and your world ends up doomed. Ooops. So no, I'm not fixing your short term problem to break the entire world because you're lazy. Big picture, children, big picture."

Satisfied?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Sounds more like you, as a play, have an issue with these type of characters. I've given decent reasoning behind why he could not act, I feel. If you are still not satisfied I do believe that is something you need to look at. Final rational I'll give for him that I would use.

"I've peeked at the end, at the way to the end, all of your time lines. Say I could just fix this problem, and the next one, and the one after that, where does that leave all you? Dependent on me, someone who would rather not be here. Say I just fix this problem then go home? Well then that messes up the time line again. It leaves you stuck here, unprepared and untested for the next great evil, and there always is a bigger fish boys and girls. So you all charge into it headlong, get slaughtered and your world ends up doomed. Ooops. So no, I'm not fixing your short term problem to break the entire world because you're lazy. Big picture, children, big picture."

Satisfied?

With the in-game explanation of him being this way? Yes.

With the out-of-game explanation for him being this way? No. It's even worse if you take erikun's suggestion of basically requesting anything from him being like trying to get wishes from an efreet that you summoned and held against their will.

[icefractal]

I don't think there's any reason an NPC can't be kind of a ****. They can even be a powerful rather condescending one, and it's still fine.

However, expecting that the PCs will want to work for them, as opposed to telling them to **** off or plotting their demise - that's where the issue is. Maybe your players feel differently about this type of character, and everything will work out fine. Personally, as a player, I'd be inclined to - at least - leave said character and refuse their tasks to the extent possible.

Which again, could be fine. There's certainly room for semi-antagonistic/ambivalent characters in a campaign. It only becomes a problem when all roads lead to said character.

[Slipperychicken]

"I've peeked at the end, at the way to the end, all of your time lines. Say I could just fix this problem, and the next one, and the one after that, where does that leave all you? Dependent on me, someone who would rather not be here. Say I just fix this problem then go home? Well then that messes up the time line again. It leaves you stuck here, unprepared and untested for the next great evil, and there always is a bigger fish boys and girls. So you all charge into it headlong, get slaughtered and your world ends up doomed. Ooops. So no, I'm not fixing your short term problem to break the entire world because you're lazy. Big picture, children, big picture."

Satisfied?

Not really. Sounds more like a rationalization for his apathy. If I were reading this in a book, I'd consider him to be a jackass. If I were playing this, I'd hate him.

[Hyena]

Uh, I'm pretty sure that's no build. That's just a bunch of homebrew with lazy backstory that you're using to create your avatar in game.

[Edenbeast]

If asked the God would state "Not my world, not my problems, I'll offer what I know but I won't clean up the messes of your world. Children need to learn to walk on their own eventually."

If pressed "Do you really want a God to wage war on the evils of your world? Do you know what the end result is of that? I destroy a chunk of your world." or "I'm not a God of good or evil. I am Death, neutrality in its most perfect form. Everything dies, everything withers and that is the natural order, the balance of things. I am not disrupting the balance of this world simply because YOU want a short cut..."

I have it all planned out, in honesty. I really just wanted to share these stats :D

Now, honest opinions if a God gave you any of these three answers would that satisfy you?


"I've peeked at the end, at the way to the end, all of your time lines. Say I could just fix this problem, and the next one, and the one after that, where does that leave all you? Dependent on me, someone who would rather not be here. Say I just fix this problem then go home? Well then that messes up the time line again. It leaves you stuck here, unprepared and untested for the next great evil, and there always is a bigger fish boys and girls. So you all charge into it headlong, get slaughtered and your world ends up doomed. Ooops. So no, I'm not fixing your short term problem to break the entire world because you're lazy. Big picture, children, big picture."

As a player I would say these arguments are rather unsatisfying and even demotivating.

"Neutral in the most perfect form" is a god who does not communicate nor interfere with the world he observes.. Already talking to players disrupts the balance. Mankind has to recognise evil himself. A smart player may see the fallacy in this argument, which will lead to an endless discussion or with your god repeating the same silly arguments over and over. "Silence! I am GOD" "Silence! I KEEL U"

Having him talk to the PC and telling them to fix some problems, but it's not his world and not his problem, I would interpret as "okay.. thanks, bye, you arrogant A-hole, I pray to Yondalla anyway. You are probably some vile demon trying to steal my soul! Yondalla protects! And if that's not enough then I rather die resisting you and be rewarded for it in the afterlife"

A better way would be, if he does take an active stance anyway, to offer the players some godlike powers as a reward, and this "mission" is a test to see if they are worthy to have those powers. Even then the players might think, "okay, so what's in it for you?"
But then again I'm not big fan of this type of campaign. Sure I like planescape, and many other kinds of weirdness, but I prefer gods stay in their holes to avoid awkward situations like these. Or to make some weird comparison: avoid the friend zone.

A key NPC without stats gives you all the flexibility you need, without using some godlike creature who can pwn the world with or without the players anyway. Above all make him likeable, not disgusting. Some guy telling the players "I'll make you an offer you can't refuse" is not a great start of the campaign (imho).

[roguemetal]

I don't think there's any reason an NPC can't be kind of a ****. They can even be a powerful rather condescending one, and it's still fine.

However, expecting that the PCs will want to work for them, as opposed to telling them to **** off or plotting their demise - that's where the issue is. Maybe your players feel differently about this type of character, and everything will work out fine. Personally, as a player, I'd be inclined to - at least - leave said character and refuse their tasks to the extent possible.

Which again, could be fine. There's certainly room for semi-antagonistic/ambivalent characters in a campaign. It only becomes a problem when all roads lead to said character.
I agree with this entirely. The biggest issue is that by tacking on a thousand and one abilities, you've already railroaded the characters into following/encountering this guy. Since he's mostly unkillable without employing Tarrasque-style fighting tactics, or calling upon some "real" god, (which I assume also exist in your highly homebrewed setting) they don't stand much of a chance. Honestly, just look up an article on railroading and see why everything you've done here is just wrong. Open world, open ending.

[kestrel404]

Never give god stats. If it has stats, it can be killed.

Also, this type of character is a bad idea in general for many more reasons that I want to go into. Trust the playground on this - 'god' characters who can do everything should never interact with the party except as antagonists (bad guys). Until you understand why this is a rule, do not break this rule.

Instead, make him a weak and relatively useless old man who has earned the respect of whichever kingdom he lives in but has nearly no powers to speak of. If he's killed by the party, everyone hates them. Make this both plainly obvious and have a trusted (or at least neutral) NPC tell them explicitly.

[Aegis013]

Satisfied?

No. It's still very condescending while simultaneously desperate.

[Phelix-Mu]

I've played in games with NPCs like this. Some (awful) DMs seem to think that absurdly, game-shatteringly powerful questgiver NPCs like this which "don't give a rat's ass about anything" are somehow cool or interesting. They aren't.

I'm sure that this guy will quickly earn the ire of your players, and any humiliation they manage to inflict on it will be hailed as a glorious victory. I know I'm infuriated when I try to deal with this kind of character. It's much like a Mary Sue god-mode, except no-one's pretending it's a decent person (mostly the DM pretending it's a Neutral person, or Chaotic Douche, and definitely not Evil).

I also find that DMs generally have these guys act like complete bullies to the PCs, yet insist this guy is True Neutral/Chaotic Neutral because "He's not Evil, he just don't give a ****", or something along those lines (usually followed by a smirk or Trollface). I think it has to do with horrible DMs acting out their power fantasies through dnd, and trying to excuse their behavior through apathy.

So yeah, I think using this guy in a game is a bad idea.

Wow, lots of bad feelings here. Guess what, players: the weak always envy the strong. Mortals have always hated the gods. Just because the characters aren't at the top of the totem pole doesn't mean that they have to spend their lives obsessing about the strong npc handing down quests. If the pcs don't like it, they can feel free to ignore quests or attempt to undermine them. Simple as that.

I find that, while very strong enemies can be cool targets, smart players will set their sights on more plot-relevant stuff (good-aligned cleric could work on plan to kill god of death, but maybe that actually isn't that useful, etc.). If players want to stat their characters around killing said god-like being, so be it. Free will is great.

As for the stats, it seemed pretty conclusive when you put that, if Viscen is somehow killed, he stays dead for one round before coming back to life.

Finally, you put that he is immune to necromancy spells. He should be able to lower/raise this immunity at will as a free, mental action repeatable as many times a round as he wants. This way he can benefit from the handful of necromancy spells that can be used to drain hp/heal user, etc. Make Time Warp special ability a free action that can be used once per round, so it doesn't eat up his only swift action. If you want to break limits, break them hard.

Make sure that, if any considerable threat to Viscen emerges from rabid/ambitious pcs/npcs that he has a panoply of pre-cast defensive stuff, contingencies, etc. In my campaign world, CR 30 is not that strong (though it is quite rare), so I empathize with the sentiment of wanting to make sure the characters know just where they sit in the pecking order.