Pathfinder Optimizing Reach/Trip Fighter

[Iamtheend]

I am currently playing my first Pathfinder game, and I've only ever played 3 & 3.5 only a short time. I've never gotten to high levels to experience things, and aside from making the best build I can for tripping, I want to also consider how to stay practical to my group in combat in higher levels. I am mainly concerned with my feats, but suggestions on anything are appreciated.

I'm going to list everything I think needs listing that I've planned out (the feats not are in the best proper order yet for how they should be taken and switched), and hopefully people can guide me in better directions. Every official Pathfinder published book is open to use, and no 3rd party.

20 (+2 from human)
17
16
11
13
9

I am a human and I have two flaws for 2 extra feats.
Combat Reflexes, and Exotic weapon Prof (fauchard)

1.) Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus
2.) Improved Trip
3.) Fury's Fall
4.) Weapon Specialization
5.) Furious Focus
6.) Greater Trip
7.) Lunge
8.) Improved Critical
9.) Greater Weapon Focus
10.) Vital Strike
11.) Dazing Assault (Combat Versatility at Level 16)
12.) Greater Weapon Specialization
13.) Improved Vital Strike
14.) Tripping Strike
15.) Devastating Strike
16.) Stunning Assault
17.) Greater Vital Strike
18.) Penetrating Strike
19.) Greater Penetrating Strike
20.) ???

My DM allowed me to have the Powerful Build ability, so I use a Large size weapon, and I'm a normal Fighter class all feats/class features directed toward weapons like weapon focus are chosen for my Fauchard reach/trip weapon.

I use a Mitheral (sp?) Breast Plate for max mobility, and usage of my Dex bonus to AC.

Lunge is planned on being used all the time so I can make sure enemies will always have to use their turns provoking AoO's, and I plan on trying to trip as much as I can to disrupt their combat capibilities, and help me hit with the rest of my full attacks due to their -4 AC drop being prone.

Vital Strikes were taken due to situations where I have to move up to opponents and cannot full attack. Furious Focus with my Power attack on top of it, and there is a lot of damage potential for a single attack lunging at 15 feet.

Critical Focus and this weapon choice was highly influenced by my DM saying house rule all critical confirm automatically, and the combat versatility is considered because of this too (which I plan switching later on and using for the Stunning Critical). Having a 25% chance to crit on 15-20 sounds nice to me.

Penetrating Strikes were taken because I didn't know what else to get, and I considered Pushing Assault before, but figured it wouldn't be too effective overall compared to other feats.

I've never done a thread like this, but I know a lot of people have a lot of interesting and helpful ideas. Any help on this is appreciated.

[Sayt]

Don't take the vital strike line of feats. Like, ever. They are the biggest trap feats in pathfinder, unless perhaps you're playing around with a colossal~ weapon, mainly because you can't make vital strikes on a charge.

Might I also suggest the Combat Patrol (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-patrol-combat) feat, which is a very nice increase to your threatened areal.

Might I suggest a Spiked chain instead of a Faulchard? The main reason for this is that it's eligible for Weapon Finess, and the Agile (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile) weapon special quality, which means you can basically dump strength in it's entirety, which allows you to make more attacks of opportunity. It also lets you take Cornugon Smash (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/cornugon-smash-combat), which gives you FREE intimidate attempts whenever you hit someone with a power attack (Off of, say, an attack of opportunity.

This way, you can set you your combat patrol in front of your party and activate power attack, and whenever a melee dude comes towards your party, you put him on his ass, and roll to frighten him.

I also suggest the Lore Warden (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/lore-warden), mainly for his untyped bonuses to CMB and CMD, but also for his increased skills.

All of that said, tripping does have it's problems. Flying creatures don't care about tripping, Quadrupeds are often resistant to tripping, etc.

[Iamtheend]

I honestly don't understand why people like or bother with intimidate. I find the feats to be wastes of space, and actions are wasted to possibly have a dude take a -2 to hit attack.

I honestly think a Spiked Chain is a terrible idea, mainly because it isn't a reach weapon. I honestly always stay away from the chain mainly due to it being so unoriginal (yes I know I'm making a trip fighter). The weapon I've chosen is a reach weapon, with great damage (2d8 when large) and an amazing crit range of 18-20. I believe I'm pretty firm on my weapon selection.

Combat patrol needs you to take Dodge and Mobility, which Dodge is better in Pathfinder and less useless, but I feel they're bad feats for what I'm doing especially. Don't get me wrong, Combat Patrol sounds cool, but with a reach weapon, and being able to shoot damage out, I rather take my turns and lunge people with full attacks, than sitting and hoping I get AoO's. If I keep people out of my 10 ft and attack at 15, then if they have to be adjacent to me they need to spend 2 turns 5 ft stepping, or run in and provoke an AoO. I was originally going to trip when they went through 10 feet, and at that time or later when they got up, I would of used Pushing Assault to reset them at 15 ft. but I felt it was more important to get other feats.

I personally don't like Vital Strike, but the piratical use I see is to walk more than 5 ft step and use it with Power Attack and Furious Focus. You would only get 1 attack anyways so why not do as much damage as possible. Other than that, if you cannot hit beyond your first attack then this is a good option for getting as much damage you can possibly get. I forget the rules to ready actions, but this could be good as well. Pouncing in Pathfinder doesn't seem realistic for my build, so I am settling for this, and of course due to the limit of cool feats. All of this is with Lunge so enemies always need to advance through my threatened squares (assuming they don't have reach to hit be beyond 5 ft.).

I want to be able to Trip and deal damage and with these feats, and weapon selection it seems like I have that covered. I didn't know about the Lore Master, but it seems like a trap due to only applying for CM while normal class I can use all around. Yes, I see I can study my enemy, but I rather not deal with all that jazz, and get down to business being ready at all times even with multiple weapons gaining the bonus'.

[Sayt]

Even in isolation, I'd still recommend taking Dodge, Mobility and Combat patrol over the three Vital strike feats. Instead of moving to strike them, make them move to you, and then strike them anyway, which means it's ultimately easier to get off full attacks in the first place.

Also, the Cornugon smash feat doesn't actually lose you any action economy, the demoralise is a free action

But hey, just my 2c.

[Chained Birds]

Don't forget your gauntlet so you can threaten the square next to you.

Also, just wanted to add to the intimidation thing, intimidation does more than grant a small de-buff to the enemy. Remember that fear effects stack, and if you are able to hit the enemy at least 2 times in a round (Through regular attacks and/or AoOs with cornugom smash), they become frightened; and if you hit them again, they become panicked. If you hit an enemy with either of these two conditions (A fear effect which only (anti)Paladins and Mindless creatures appear to be immune to), they will actually think twice about their position and will try to run away; provoking more AoOs as they either try to get up from a prone position or just simply move away.

So intimidation also helps you fulfill your purpose as a wall for you allies as your enemies will either be on the ground or running away, or both!

[grarrrg]

Also, just wanted to add to the intimidation thing, intimidation does more than grant a small de-buff to the enemy. Remember that fear effects stack,

Spell fear stacks.
Intimidate Skill (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/intimidate) fear does NOT stack.

Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.

[Iamtheend]

I have the spiked gauntlet of course, but thank you for mentioning it in the thread anyways.

I just got real confused on how I could of missed something so cool with intimidate, but it was too good to be true. I never heard a good argument to take it, and everyone that tells me to take it also tells me that sundering, and mounted combat are AWESOME! I just give them an awkward look like "I will never take advice from you, ever!".

[Dusk Eclipse]

Spiked chain is often suggested because in 3.5 it is hands down the best weapon, 2 handed ergo 1:2 returns on power attack, trip weapon, reach and could strike adjacent enemies (which is a big thing) and finally a decent base damage. It could be used by Uberchargeds or trip-monkeys without problem; but Pathfinder nerfed it to the point it is simply useless and a waste of a feat (like most other exotic weapons).

[Chained Birds]

Spell fear stacks.
Intimidate Skill (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/intimidate) fear does NOT stack.

I guess I was thinking of some combo build using rogue or something. :smallredface:

[Zubrowka74]

... but the piratical use I see is to ...

Pirates don't use polearms...

[Iamtheend]

Bumping in hopes of getting some more assistance on this, other than spelling mistakes :smallfrown:

[Iamtheend]

Perhaps a final bump in hopes of being enlightened.

[Iamtheend]

Super time travel bump

[Solusek]

I made a character similar to this for the Pathfinder game I'm playing in right now. He's a reach weapon fighter with his combat tricks being focused on tripped and (at higher levels) critical hits. I also went with the Fauchard since it is a reach weapon with a 18-20 crit range.

Since your DM is giving automatic confirmation of critical hits, you might also want to consider investing in some critical hit triggered feats even though the prerequisite feat to get them is worthless.

Here is my planned out feat build. You could do even better since you are also able to get an extra 2 feats by taking flaws:

Feats:
01- Exotic Weapon Prof (Fauchard)
01- Weapon Focus (Fauchard)
01- Combat Expertise
02- Improved Trip
03- Combat Reflexes
04- Outflank (teamwork)
05- Iron Will
06- Greater Trip
07- Power Attack
08- Improved Critical (Fauchard)
09- Tripping Strike
10- Greater Weapon Focus (Fauchard)
11- Pin Down
12- Critical Focus
13- Critical Stagger
14- Fury's Fall
15- Disruptive
16- Spellbreaker
17- Critical Stun

I would highly suggest you take a look at the Pin Down feat. I think it is incredibly strong for a reach weapon fighter.

[Zubrowka74]

You can have Exotic WP for free by choosing an Half-Elf alternate racial trait. Also in PF an extra flaw is half a feat, or one trait, no ?

[Zubrowka74]

With was mentioned before but Lore Warden gives you Combat Expertise at level 2.

[Solusek]

With was mentioned before but Lore Warden gives you Combat Expertise at level 2.

Lore Warden is one of the better fighter archetypes and mechanically it fits this character concept well. It does give up armor training though, which is one of the fighters best class abilities (In fact, it also gives up medium and heavy armor proficiency - ouch). I'm on the fence about whether or not the things it gains are worth the losses.

[jaybird]

Lore Warden is one of the better fighter archetypes and mechanically it fits this character concept well. It does give up armor training though, which is one of the fighters best class abilities (In fact, it also gives up medium and heavy armor proficiency - ouch). I'm on the fence about whether or not the things it gains are worth the losses.

With your character's high Dex, he'll have a pretty good AC. Armour training does hurt, though.

[doko239]

I'd like to weigh in with my opinion and say you should consider using a Scorpion Whip instead of a Fauchard, especially if you go for the Whip Mastery feat chain. Allows you to go Finesse/Agile; Not 2h, but can be 2WF easily as it is light; Greater reach; and the feats give you a threatened area and remove the AOO for using a whip in melee.

2WF Whip-Trip-Monkey :smallbiggrin: