[PF] Fighting Several Casters at Once

[Karoht]

So I've often wondered how one caster might fight 4 casters as the same time. Action economy being what it is, this sounds daunting at best.
Let's set the scene a bit shall we?

You-Level 8, 10, or 12 caster of your choice. Pathfinder only. Standard WBL.
Them-4 Wizards, each is two levels below you. Standard NPC WBL.

The Setup
You've known of these Wizards for at least a month, somehow you ended up on their radar about a month ago as well. You've managed to block most of their scry's and other detection methods, and you've even managed to collect some intel on them. You know they have a higher level employer who is doing the scry work. But ultimately, you've been expecting them to attack for at least a week now. You're pretty certain that today is the day, any minute now.
You've had 5 scry-proof days where you could do anything you wanted and hide it appropriately, any other days of prep have likely been detected by these wizards.

And as luck would have it, you remembered to have Anticipate Teleportation active today (we'll fudge that in from 3.5) so when they do come, you get a round of buffing or other such preparation. And they are coming today, you are certain of it.

One person VS 4 Casters.
They are probably being teleported to their location by another caster altogether (their employer who has been scrying you), and are arriving fully buffed up and ready for action.


Victory:
Retreat is an automatic forfeit, hence a defeat.
Mostly, the scenario exists as a platform for discussing tactics. If you found yourself in that scenario for whatever reason, what would you do?
You have 5 days (they don't have to be consecutive, as long as they all fall within a 30 day period) to make any specific preparations. If you are a prepared caster, assume that you have access to any spell you are looking for.

What are your preparations?
What are your tactics?
What spells are the most important to you?
What items are the most important to you?

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'm not terribly familiar with the changes to the spell-list when going from 3.5 to PF so this is only tentative, but I'm pretty sure the only thing that's going to win that fight is a kiss from lady luck, herself.

Overcoming 4:1 action economy is nightmarishly difficult anyway and, while I could be mistaken, I thought PF nixed or nerfed all the good action economy breakers that would even this out. This, of course, assumes they don't drop in with a mass of summoned creatures ready to eat your face on arrival. At that point there is no overcoming the action economy difference. Run for your life.

Be a hell of a fireworks show though.

[Morrolan]

If you know that you will have an upcoming battle where you'll be outnumbered 4 to 1, you won't want to face them on a fair battleground.
Always fight on your own terms. Have the location be a place with natural hazards that you are familiar with, or something similar. If you can force them to stand close to each other, one well-placed area spell can take care of them.

When you are fighting against 4, try to make it a fight against only 1 at a time. Use the environment or disable the other 3 with walls or antimagic areas or even illusions. With sufficient skill and clever usage of illusions/enchantments, you can even have them fighting each other.

Planar bind as many creatures as you can convince/hire to help you. Some extraplanar creatures will help even the odds. Sell your soul if you have to.

And make damn sure that the first spell cast in the actual battle is yours.

[Eldariel]

Really, the natural answer is "Teleport away and pick a fight on your terms"; fighting 4 people at once in the open with no preparation is not possible if they can affect you meaningfully, outside few very specific spells. This is not plausible by the encounter rules, and possibly not necessary though.

In this case, the best you could have is a level 10 vs. 4 level 8s, since the leap to level 5 spells offer extremely significant leaps in ability: level 4 spells are basically all tactical in scope, while level 5 spells offer strategic-level teleportation and Lesser Planar Binding for powerful, long duration minions which means a level 10 Wizard will be able to get the drop on level 8s most of the time with superior forces. It also has Contact Other Plane for intelligence though it takes a long time to make it really reliable and to utilize it to its full extent.

[Karoht]

Honestly the only answer I ever seem to get is 'run away'
You have 5 days, what preparations would you make?
Lesser Planar Binding? What would you summon?
Spell selection? Is Globe of Invulnerability (Lesser) worth it?
Items? You have 30 days to acquire goods/services but only 5 days to do any of the actual work yourself.
How about the Symbol of X Spells? A Symbol of Sleep could be extremely useful. 10th level caster = 5th level spells = Symbol of Sleep and Symbol of Pain. One could prepare quite a few of those in 5 days and be sure to carefully position them at the desired battlefield.
Glyphs of Warding/Explosive Runes on 'the battlefield' maybe?

In fact that isn't a half-bad combo. Cover the battlefield with Glyphs of Warding (it stores 1st-3rd level spells) and Explosive Runes, both of which you will be completely immune to with Globe of Invulnerability (Lesser). Sure, the Glyphs can get a bit expensive, but the Explosive Runes don't have a cost component.
All you would really have to do is neutralize their 4th level spells. Even if they try the same trick, they have to neutralize your 4th and 5th level spells, as well as any battlefield preparations and lesser planar binding friends you may have brought along.

However, going up to 12 and fighting 4x 10's, I can see the difficulty going up dramatically.

[Eldariel]

Well sure, you can Symbol-stack/ER-stack/Shrink Item/whatever but those are kinda nuclear options.

[Karoht]

Well sure, you can Symbol-stack/ER-stack/Shrink Item/whatever but those are kinda nuclear options.
You are one caster up against 4 Wizards. Nuclear options are always on the table. :smallbiggrin:

Any other fun battlefield prep?
Any ideas of how to set things up so that they actually go to the battlefield in question? False Scrying, etc?

Also, no one seems to have brought up what class they would prefer to fight these 4 wizards with.

[the clumsy bard]

If you have a reliable way of either shaping your spells or gaining immunity to poison.

Cloudkill (https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/magic/all-spells/c/cloudkill) is always an option.

Especially if you are delaying there teleport in.

Actually... if you have high enough level spells, you could always bind them to the area, and then teleport out yourself... Leaving them to be gassed to death.

[jaybird]

Take Leadership, get an Archer Fighter/Barbarian cohort. Have him take Spell Sunder. Now he can Spell Sunder at range. Planar Bind a couple dudes to fight for you.

In short, get more actions.

[Karoht]

Get more actions, deny their actions. Sound strategies in general.

Summon Monster 5 gets you Babau's. They have Dispel Magic at will. Worth it to summon and direct it/them to hold actions and use Dispel Magic to Counterspell with? Any spell they succeed in Dispelling/Counterspelling would represent lost resources and lost action economy for the attacking Wizards?
Or is the Caster Level Check too low bother with at that point?

Aqueous Orb.
Wizards will likely have poor Reflex saves. Move action to lockdown up to all 4 of them if they position themselves poorly. That seems like decent action economy to me. Thoughts?

[ericgrau]

What about leaving but having your summons and traps left behind to soften them up? This seems like it would need a lot of subterfuge and hit and run to overcome the numbers problem. Not the simpler image spells because they could save, nor invisibility because they have see invis up, but there are others like the mirages, plus subtle illusions off to the side that they are unlikely to interact with (so no save) like permanent image, programmed image and illusory wall. Disguises on your summons could work well too, such as seeming or disguise other (APG), since these have no save. Between their -3 spot for being cross class and the +10, you're at a +13 advantage. A little more tweaking could make them nigh-indiscernible.

Also bear in mind since they don't know what you have ready they are at a hefty disadvantage because they are unlikely to have the counter prepared to most things. That's got to be a wizard's #1 weakness. That and hp. They probably have around 58 each at level 10. If you can somehow get two chain lightnings via hit and run they won't have their numbers advantage anymore and they are unlikely to prep for electricity. Basically remember that any offensive tactic is likely to work unless it's extremely common because they are unlikely to have the precise defense for it. That alone could win it if you can find the right one that snags 4 targets right away.

Maybe make one of the traps symbol of sleep and take greater spell focus (enchantment). A wizard's will save actually isn't that high because he pumps con and has a so-so wis. Your summons ready actions to disrupt casting while the frantic enemy is dispelling (which have a <50% chance of success btw).

[Karoht]

Now those are some clever tactics.
I see Disguise being employed.
Joker Bard tactics? Thoughts on those?

[Cambrian]

For level 12 wizards:

What about using something like a Golem or other hard for magic users to handle creature. I say Golem since it will function in an anti magic field where you could even position yourself close to it to protect it from summoned monsters they might use.

I'm thinking anti magic field is a key to victory since without the ability to effect you you can negate their best strength and you've had time to prepare to operate while under the effect of it.

[doko239]

Aqueous Orb.
Wizards will likely have poor Reflex saves. Move action to lockdown up to all 4 of them if they position themselves poorly. That seems like decent action economy to me. Thoughts?

One of my absolute favorite combos is Create Pit (any variety) and Aqueous Orb.

1 - Cast Create Pit somewhere. If one or more enemies fall in, so much the better, but not truly necessary.

2 - Cast Aqueous Orb. Sweep up as many enemies as will fit inside.

3 - Move the Aqueous Orb into the Pit. Leave them there until they drown.

Since they're casters, add Silence to the mix for added fun.

[Susano-wo]

Two things come to mind. 1. contingency with a 12th lvl Wiz. set up the best walls you can to be cast when someone approaches within 30 ft. set yourself in a series of winding tunnels. when the 1st opponent comes within 30 ft your wall activates, sealing him off(set up, like, 3 of these, giving you 1 more 6th lvl spell).

Of course they can teleport again, or summon monsters to bypass your defenses, so maybe contingencied SoDs (actual or effective)would be the way to go, target reflex and or fort and hope for the best. you have 4 chances to incapacitate 1 or more, and then you can use your readied action to do something else

The second is a bit odd, and would actually work best at the highest lvl, but can work at lower levels. Cleric with war and magic domains and greatsword favored weapon deity. normal build is DMM persistbattle cleric with PA and cleave

gear up with greatsword and full plate, teleport yourself into an area that is 20/20, and stand in the center. ready an action for antimagic field. cast upon teleport and proceed to attack with PA :smallbiggrin:

if we can work in TOB take martial study with wall of blades(attack roll in place of AC, gives you a second chance vs a luck wizard hit :P)