Dazed Undead

[AlanBruce]

Greetings! A simple question: can undeads become dazed? For instance, if one would cast celerity, which leaves the caster dazed until the beginning of their next turn, would an undead be subjected to it? I have read on the undead subtype, but could not find anything pertaining to them being immune to daze (they are immune to pretty much everything else that affects the mind). My first guess is they would be subject to being dazed, but I would like a more veteran opinion.

Thank you in advance.

[Gwendol]

Only if it requires something the undead is immune against, e.g. a Fort save:

•Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

[Socratov]

I try to imagine a dazed skeleton. something like a skeleton with it's skull pinning around for a couple of seconds?:smallconfused:

[ahenobarbi]

Yes, undead can become dazed. Daze immunity is not in the description of the undead type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm).

[AlanBruce]

Thank you for clarifying that. They had to give them at least one condition to which they would be immune to.

[Killer Angel]

Yes, undead can become dazed. Daze immunity is not in the description of the undead type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm).

Well, I believe that the case made is:
1) undead are immune to mind-affecting effects.
2) The spell Daze is mind-affecting
3) dazed is a condition equal to the one originated by Daze.
4) 1+2+3= Dazed is a mind affecting effect.

A little stretchy, but I can see the doubt. A DM could easily rule so.

[TuggyNE]

Well, I believe that the case made is:
1) undead are immune to mind-affecting effects.
2) The spell Daze is mind-affecting
3) dazed is a condition equal to the one originated by Daze.
4) 1+2+3= Dazed is a mind affecting effect.

A little stretchy, but I can see the doubt. A DM could easily rule so.

That's plausible, yes, but not really valid, since it is (self-evidently) possible to become dazed without being hit by daze. Otherwise we wouldn't have this conversation in the first place. So the whole syllogism falls apart. (It's possible that dazed was intended to be mind-affecting, and not unlikely that it should be, but it isn't by RAW.)

[Killer Angel]

(It's possible that dazed was intended to be mind-affecting, and not unlikely that it should be, but it isn't by RAW.)

Absolutely. By RAW, undead are not immune, but there's room for a house rule, based on that kind of reasoning.

I would advice doing such a rule, however, if the intention is to have a BBEG undead immune to be dazed after the casting of celerity.
I (as a player) wouldn't object on such a rule at the beginning of the campaign, but probably I would be upset if this happens "out of the blue".

[Runestar]

As mentioned, undead can be dazed. It is just that many effects that induce dazing often have descriptors that don't work on undead (ego whip and daze are mind-affecting, 3-mountains strike involves fort save, blasphemy doesn't affect evil creatures etc).

However, undead can still be dazed, e.g.: via celerity, casting spells modified by born of 3 thunders, affected by blasphemy if undead is good-aligned). :smallsmile:

[ahenobarbi]

Well, I believe that the case made is:
1) undead are immune to mind-affecting effects.
2) The spell Daze is mind-affecting
3) dazed is a condition equal to the one originated by Daze.
4) 1+2+3= Dazed is a mind affecting effect.

A little stretchy, but I can see the doubt. A DM could easily rule so.

I think you do know this reasoning doesn't work. But just for the record: "daze spell" is mid affecting but that doesn't make "daze condition" mind affecting. Just like the fact that "daze spell" allows SR doesn't mean that "daze condition" does.

And it wold make celerity broken even more/easier.

[Killer Angel]

I think you do know this reasoning doesn't work.

Oh, yes I do.
I was pointing out that, probably, it was the more probable line of reasoning to support the doubt of "can undeads become dazed?".
It remains wrong, but there's some logic.

[Agincourt]

As mentioned, undead can be dazed. It is just that many effects that induce dazing often have descriptors that don't work on undead (ego whip and daze are mind-affecting, 3-mountains strike involves fort save, blasphemy doesn't affect evil creatures etc).


Three Mountains feat makes the subject nauseated, not dazed.

[Toy Killer]

Nor would it make Sleeping a mind effecting condition and if-so facto make Elves immune to mind effecting conditions.

I see where your coming from, it never hurts to ask the DM, but I would find it wonky at best...