One shoe box

[scurv]

Lets pretend the world will end. And all that will be found in the contents of one box the size of a shoe.

What would you put in it for the next civilization to find and know us by.

[Fragenstein]

Lets pretend the world will end. And all that will be found in the contents of one box the size of a shoe.

What would you put in it for the next civilization to find and know us by.

Obvious answer: Some high-density, multi-terabyte storage device describing our culture in detail.

Real Answer: A Foot. Because it would fit the shoe nicely and we're all about comfort.

[Wyntonian]

I'll assume you mean a shoebox?

Well, depending on the nature of the next civilization, I'd say either a guide to mechanics, medicine, engineering and the other sciences that our civilization depends on, or a book containing a moral framework to help people keep from killing and eating each other, and help them think rationally. Everything else can grow from that, eventually.

[scurv]

Blarg, I meant to say one shoe box. but all good.

[The Succubus]

A note simply saying: "Greetings, oh tentacled descendants that survived the destruction of civilisation. We, your forerunners, bequeath to you ancient knowledge: when the crazy squid at the end of the street starts harping on about the end of the world, he might actually be right. Just a heads up."

[Kjata]

I'd like a photo of the eleven hundred person orgy that will likely ensue to be placed in the box, with "Our Final Moments" written on the back.

[Pyromancer999]

A note simply saying: "Greetings, oh tentacled descendants that survived the destruction of civilisation. We, your forerunners, bequeath to you ancient knowledge: when the crazy squid at the end of the street starts harping on about the end of the world, he might actually be right. Just a heads up."

Actually, funnily enough, according to a Discovery Channel thing that predicted how animals will evolve after we're gone, apparently squids are slotted up next to take over the land after humanity goes extinct.

[Ravens_cry]

Some pocket dictionaries of English to the two other most common languages written on archival paper along with novels translated into each language, with the same symbol on the cover of each novel.
Hopefully, at least one language will survive in some form and it will act as a Rosetta stone for future generations.
Along with that, I will include a microfilm current encyclopedia, some relevant recent events not covered, a specially made microscope built of the right magnification to view it with further modifications to make the use of the microfilm easier, and written and drawn instructions. All this will be in a box that, while the size of a shoe box, will be airtight and filled with an inert gas.
If there is space, I will include several popular religious texts, in microfilm form if need be.

[Flickerdart]

A set of polyhedral dice, and a copy of the original Tomb of Horrors (in a binding that fits the box).

[Grinner]

Eh, I'd avoid using any electronic means of storage, not only because of the likelihood of software incompatibilities but also because of the rate at which data decay occurs in such media.

As far as longevity goes, I think Ravens_cry has the right idea.

[ForzaFiori]

Yea, microfilm, as annoying as it is to work with, is probably the best bet for storing huge amounts of stuff. I feel sorry for whatever squid archaeologist gets stuck reading through it though. My eyes always start to hurt after 20 minutes or so, I can't imagine reading a whole book that way.

[Amidus Drexel]

Well, the several-terabyte level storage device detailing the history of the world as we know it has already been said.

I'd go with a musical instrument of some sort. Something small enough to fit in the box; maybe a ukelele or a flute.


A set of polyhedral dice, and a copy of the original Tomb of Horrors (in a binding that fits the box).

+1

Mwahahahahahahaha :smallbiggrin:

[Ravens_cry]

Yea, microfilm, as annoying as it is to work with, is probably the best bet for storing huge amounts of stuff. I feel sorry for whatever squid archaeologist gets stuck reading through it though. My eyes always start to hurt after 20 minutes or so, I can't imagine reading a whole book that way.

Any archaeologist would be overjoyed to find such a complete record and would stand the eye strain and/or get assistants to do it.

[warty goblin]

A description of how smelt and forge high quality steel. Assuming that the squid civilization's trajectory is anything like our own, the stuff like advanced medicine etc all follow pretty rapidly once a substantial portion of the population isn't required to farm all the time. Besides, squid diet and biology won't be like ours, so most of our progress in medicine and agriculture wouldn't help. But high quality metallurgy can be reasonably assumed to be very useful.

After that, Newton's three laws and the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus. To put all that steel to practical use in good engineering.

With any remaining space: copies of Gilgamesh, the Iliad, Odyssey, Beowulf, Shakespeare, the Bhagavad Gita, and whatever other major cultural landmarks fit. Let 'em know who we were.

[Flickerdart]

Considering that we've used up all the surface deposits of metal ore ages ago, knowing how to smelt steel won't be terribly helpful.

[Ravens_cry]

Considering that we've used up all the surface deposits of metal ore ages ago, knowing how to smelt steel won't be terribly helpful.
In theory, much of our metallic garbage could be processed back into usable metal. A bigger problem I see would be the lack of easy to get at fossil hydrocarbons.

[Grinner]

In theory, much of our metallic garbage could be processed back into usable metal. A bigger problem I see would be the lack of easy to get at fossil hydrocarbons.

Weird. I've actually been thinking about how, when we run out of accessible petroleum pockets, we'll probably begin mining landfills for plastics and other petroleum byproducts.

Hey! Maybe the squids could crack (or reform?) these plastics into usable fuel.

[Razgriez]

I'd write a note seal it in protective cases. This note would read simply this

"Picked Refusal option, GM got angry, Rocks fell, everyone died....

...Worst ending ever. GG man"

:smallamused:

Seriously though, the same as many others here suggested, condense as much knowledge of our existence onto some sort of date storage, seal it, and pass it on. Although if it's a doom of our own creation, perhaps it might be best to simply say "Do not seek out our ruins, for it was of our own causing. Simply use our knowledge we pass on to you, to not make the same mistakes we did. "

[Adlan]

Size 9 Chukka boots.

[GnomeFighter]

Spring snakes. Lots of spring snakes.

Alternatively microfiche with as many books as possible.
To start with:
Complete works of Shakespeare
Newtons Mathmatica
Hawkings short history
An OED
Some english to other languages dictionarys (probably Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, Arabic and Urdu).
The most detailed atlas I can find.
Works on quantum theory.
Other important texts.

Then some 35mm images of some great works of art.
Starting with:
Lindisfarne Gospels
Picasso
The works of da vinci.
Images of some of the great works of architecture (Great cathedrals of Europe, sky scrapers, some art Deco buildings, motorways)

And, on the basis that if we go we are probably taking allot of other animals with us, lots of diffrent images of the biodiversity of the world.

I'd put the lot in a very strong, waterproof box with a lock that can only be opened with a code that proves an understanding of basic calculus just to make sure that it isn't found by the squid equivalent of cave man and used as fire fuel.

[Haruki-kun]

Photographs of people from different parts of the world and landmarks made by them. Probably including a world map with indications as to where the different people lived.

EDIT: And a towel.

[warty goblin]

In theory, much of our metallic garbage could be processed back into usable metal. A bigger problem I see would be the lack of easy to get at fossil hydrocarbons.

A being can do some fairly impressive metalwork with wood fired furnaces.

Besides which, there's no point in hypercondensed hard drives or anything like that. By the time the next civilization can read them - if they ever get to that point - the knowledge will be of fairly minimal use. Knowing how to build a super-advanced computer once you can build any computer only seems like it would save you a hundred years or so. Knowing how to work steel into high quality tools could allow a civilization to skip from the late bronze age to the Renascence in a couple generations.

Hand a hard drive to anybody not born in the last century or so, and they'll at best consider it a curiosity. If they're a hunter gatherer, they aren't going figure it contains some sort of key to ultimate knowledge and try to build a machine they can't comprehend to read it. They're probably going to figure it works real good for cracking neo-mastodon bones to get at the marrow.

[WarKitty]

A being can do some fairly impressive metalwork with wood fired furnaces.

Besides which, there's no point in hypercondensed hard drives or anything like that. By the time the next civilization can read them - if they ever get to that point - the knowledge will be of fairly minimal use. Knowing how to build a super-advanced computer once you can build any computer only seems like it would save you a hundred years or so. Knowing how to work steel into high quality tools could allow a civilization to skip from the late bronze age to the Renascence in a couple generations.

Hand a hard drive to anybody not born in the last century or so, and they'll at best consider it a curiosity. If they're a hunter gatherer, they aren't going figure it contains some sort of key to ultimate knowledge and try to build a machine they can't comprehend to read it. They're probably going to figure it works real good for cracking neo-mastodon bones to get at the marrow.

Of course, if you want to impart our cultural and artistic history, a hyper-condensed hard drive might be the way to go. Not as immediately survival-oriented, but I feel like it might be a better overall memorial to human achievement.

[Aedilred]

A map, directing whoever finds the box to the much larger space capsule containing a much larger quantity of important information and relics.

[warty goblin]

Of course, if you want to impart our cultural and artistic history, a hyper-condensed hard drive might be the way to go. Not as immediately survival-oriented, but I feel like it might be a better overall memorial to human achievement.

Seems to me like the alternatives are, per the scenario, either try to do something of benefit to whatever inherits the planet, or leave a bunch of stuff so they sit around feeling bad for us.

I should think the choice between the two is obvious.

[WarKitty]

It would help if we knew a bit more about who would find the box, what technology would be required to open it, and so forth. Is it something that'll be easily opened by the first cave-squid that comes across it? Can we make it so it can't be opened until they're fairly advanced? Do we know they'll find it early on?

[JustSomeGuy]

Will Tracey's head fit in the box? If not then the ebola virus; that'll teach them to inherit our earth.

[Ravens_cry]

A being can do some fairly impressive metalwork with wood fired furnaces.

No doubt, but it does represent an upper limit on energy available to industry if only biofuels are available.

[warty goblin]

No doubt, but it does represent an upper limit on energy available to industry if only biofuels are available.

Which makes knowing how to manufacture high quality things with low intensity methods is all the more important.

Either that or how to refine biodiesel. Probably not the sort of thing easily recorded in a shoebox sized volume though.

[Kelb_Panthera]

:smallannoyed: I'm in a bad mood, so I'm going to say "an armed claymore mine with the business end pointed at the opening of the box."

Maybe I'll get lucky and kick off a future war. :belkar:

Sorry. I just kinda wanna see the world burn right now. :smallsigh:

[WarKitty]

It would help if we knew a bit more about who would find the box, what technology would be required to open it, and so forth. Is it something that'll be easily opened by the first cave-squid that comes across it? Can we make it so it can't be opened until they're fairly advanced? Do we know they'll find it early on?

More thoughts here: Consider our own history of hauling off and sometimes damaging historic items. In some cases without realizing they were important (what do you mean I shouldn't haul rock off from that ugly old ruined temple?). So if we didn't know when it would be found, we would want to take care that whatever we included would be easily recognizable and difficult to damage. Conversely, if it was hidden in an obscure place or difficult to open, we have no particular guarantee that it would be found at a time when our scientific knowledge would be useful.

[Ravens_cry]

Useful schmusful! My whole desire for this exercise would be to cast some remnant of ourselves out into the void.
Something that says we were here and what we did, good and evil both.
I would want it to tell our heirs something of our hopes and dreams, our follies and wisdom, our history and our desires for a future cut off.

[Mynxae]

Put something in there that would suck the life out of the shoe-box-opener-er and restore humanity. Or something like that. :smalltongue:

[Emmerask]

Eh, I'd avoid using any electronic means of storage, not only because of the likelihood of software incompatibilities but also because of the rate at which data decay occurs in such media.

As far as longevity goes, I think Ravens_cry has the right idea.

Microfilm won´t last long enough (500years), only thing that might possibly have a chance is pretty much a stone tablet (or since we are super modern a crystal tablet with laser engraving).

[warty goblin]

Useful schmusful! My whole desire for this exercise would be to cast some remnant of ourselves out into the void.
Something that says we were here and what we did, good and evil both.
I would want it to tell our heirs something of our hopes and dreams, our follies and wisdom, our history and our desires for a future cut off.

We, per the scenario, are either about to die or already dead. This makes us irrelevant. Leaving behind a bunch of saccharine mementos won't do the squid any good, and very shortly it won't do us any good either.

Telling the squid how to engineer better however could do them some good. Again per the scenario, they're the ones that matter. We don't.

[Ravens_cry]

We, per the scenario, are either about to die or already dead. This makes us irrelevant. Leaving behind a bunch of saccharine mementos won't do the squid any good, and very shortly it won't do us any good either.

Telling the squid how to engineer better however could do them some good. Again per the scenario, they're the ones that matter. We don't.
It could also be very dangerous. Would you give a caveman an atomic bomb?
Besides, humanity is the most important thing in the universe, to us.
I would consider our legacy to be of prime importance.

[WarKitty]

We, per the scenario, are either about to die or already dead. This makes us irrelevant. Leaving behind a bunch of saccharine mementos won't do the squid any good, and very shortly it won't do us any good either.

Telling the squid how to engineer better however could do them some good. Again per the scenario, they're the ones that matter. We don't.

This really depends on your view. Our cultural heritage, I think, it far more likely and more reliably useful to the squid than whatever engineering techniques we could manage. After all, we don't know what state the earth will be in, or when they'll find this - there's a good chance that whatever knowledge we put in might not be useful. Maybe our art and culture don't put food in people's mouths, but I think they're pretty valuable for all that.

[White_Drake]

Did you mean an actual shoebox, or something the size of a shoebox? If it's size only, I vote music. Stick a couple terabyte hard drive into the best speakers you could cram into it, the set it to autoplay upon opening. Power it all with solar paneling on the inside of the lid.

If we're gone, there's no reason to bother helping those that follow us, so no science. That leaves culture. With music, you don't need to worry about translation, and depending on what you stuck in there, it could give a deep insight into humanity.

Also, if they ever did manage to translate it, you could put in some ironic stuff. I can perfectly envision a religion forming around 2112. :smallcool:

[warty goblin]

It could also be very dangerous. Would you give a caveman an atomic bomb?
Besides, humanity is the most important thing in the universe, to us.
I would consider our legacy to be of prime importance.
I'm not giving the squid an atomic bomb, or even direct instructions on how to make one. Unless your argument is that any invention after fire and the sharp stick are so inherently dangerous as to be of negative value to the species that creates them, I can't see what this is actually saying.
*****

Once we're gone, what's important to us doesn't matter anymore. What is of importance and value to humans are characteristics derived from humans, not the objects themselves. A baby means a lot to humans, to a lion it means a rather small lunch. And the lion isn't right any more than we are, because what something means is entirely based on the thing defining that meaning.

It seems an obvious and immediate corollary to this that the value or meaning of something to a creature is contingent on that creature being alive to give it that value. Otherwise we'd have to concern ourselves with the values of every person that ever lived, which would be cumbersome to say the least. Our values were irrelevant during the Jurassic, they'll be just as irrelevant during the post-hominid era for exactly the same reason: We aren't there to form them.

So right after the last human dies, human values count for no more than neanderthal or T-Rex values do now. Now we are supposing here that humanity is about to go extinct, that something will follow in our footsteps, and we have a very limited ability to impart information to these creatures. The worth of our legacy therefore isn't what we get out of it - since again we won't be around to get anything out of it and so give it value - but whatever worth our betentacled inheritors get out of it. They're the ones that exist, they're the ones that get to put value on things. Not us.

Ergo the logical course of action here is to consider what we can reasonably suppose land-squids would value. Obviously there's a lot of ways to get this wrong, but that doesn't make the application of reason here useless. There's a lot of ways you can be wrong when guessing the sum of two dice, but 7 is still the best bet. And I'm just not seeing the case that maudlin musings on ourselves would do them any good.

This really depends on your view. Our cultural heritage, I think, it far more likely and more reliably useful to the squid than whatever engineering techniques we could manage. After all, we don't know what state the earth will be in, or when they'll find this - there's a good chance that whatever knowledge we put in might not be useful. Maybe our art and culture don't put food in people's mouths, but I think they're pretty valuable for all that.
How would our cultural heritage make on iota of difference to a sapient squid?

And while our art and culture are valuable to us, I see no reason they'd be of any great value to anything not human. Our culture doesn't seem to do anything for any other creature on the planet, and very few people get really excited that some chimp groups display different behavior than others, or even about other human cultures. Why is it reasonable to suspect that the squid would care, or get any more value of us?

[Ravens_cry]

No, but you are giving them knowledge that, potentially, could advance their knowledge past their wisdom.
Furthermore, we have no way of knowing when in their technological development they would find it. Focusing on providing technological education might be either pointless,( by the time they find and translate it. they already have equivalent or better technology) or downright dangerous, as previously mentioned.
Assuming they have a sense of curiosity, which is a pretty good assumption for a species that would try takes the time to try and understand a message from a long dead species, would be most fascinated by our history and cultures, 'saccharine mementos' as you call them so dismissively.
At the very least, I know I would be.

[WarKitty]

How would our cultural heritage make on iota of difference to a sapient squid?

And while our art and culture are valuable to us, I see no reason they'd be of any great value to anything not human. Our culture doesn't seem to do anything for any other creature on the planet, and very few people get really excited that some chimp groups display different behavior than others, or even about other human cultures. Why is it reasonable to suspect that the squid would care, or get any more value of us?

You must be around very different people than I am, then. Most people I know are be at least interested in works from other human cultures, and would be if we could find them from non-human persons. Chimps, unfortunately, don't have anything I would consider culture, so unless someone finds chimp philosophy or dolphin artwork soon that's really not much of a comparison.

It's hard to compare because we don't really have any other race of persons around. But I think there's at least some strong support for the idea that things like philosophy and artwork are marks of personhood.

[warty goblin]

No, but you are giving them knowledge that, potentially, could advance their knowledge past their wisdom.

So what, we should halt scientific research right now, because we might do the same?

Furthermore, we have no way of knowing when in their technological development they would find it. Focusing on providing technological education might be either pointless,( by the time they find and translate it. they already have equivalent or better technology) or downright dangerous, as previously mentioned.
It could be useless yes. It could also be extremely useful. I don't buy the danger argument to a great degree. People have killed each other in enormous numbers, pretty much regardless to what technology they had. Besides, telling somebody how to forge steel isn't giving them a super-weapon and a trigger in one fell swoop. It means they can make better tools - including weapons - but unless they can progress incredibly rapidly that isn't enough to go from stones to machine guns in a generation. Using humanity as an estimator (which is the best we can do, only having the one datapoint) it'll still take hundreds of years.


Assuming they have a sense of curiosity, which is a pretty good assumption for a species that would try takes the time to try and understand a message from a long dead species, would be most fascinated by our history and cultures, 'saccharine mementos' as you call them so dismissively.
At the very least, I know I would be.
And they wouldn't be fascinated by engineering, metallurgy, chemistry, mathematics and physics? The quest for more effective solutions to real-world problems is certainly one it seems reasonable to assume an intelligent species pursues. The ability to come up with better solutions quickly is, after all, what makes intelligence pay off from an evolutionary point of view.


You must be around very different people than I am, then. Most people I know are be at least interested in works from other human cultures, and would be if we could find them from non-human persons. Chimps, unfortunately, don't have anything I would consider culture, so unless someone finds chimp philosophy or dolphin artwork soon that's really not much of a comparison.

I'll grant that we are interested in other cultures. However we're interested in a lot of other stuff as well, not least of which is improving our physical comfort. This tends to be a trait one sees in most animals; it's reasonable to suppose it to be present in landgoing squids as well. Aiming for that seems a more reasonable bet for doing them a good favor than hoping they'll be desperately fascinated by Plato.

If nothing else, suppose you lived in a society with anything less than a modern first world technology level. Between the history of something long ago, the musings of beings dead for eons, and pictures of an entirely different species, or learning how to make tools better and stronger than what you currently have, which would you choose? I'm betting most anybody who's ever done anything remotely like subsistence food gathering and preparation is all over the second option like white on rice.

And as noted above, culture and art is hardly the only thing people are interested in.

It's hard to compare because we don't really have any other race of persons around. But I think there's at least some strong support for the idea that things like philosophy and artwork are marks of personhood.
They are marks of humanity yes, but we aren't talking about humans. I agree, by the way, that not having another intelligent species sitting around makes the comparisons harder.

[scurv]

People people!

This is asking what you are giving them, and maybe why. But decisions like this are subjective. It is based on each of our personal values, experiences, religion and prudence.

There is no need to argue with why someone else would or would not pass on something to the future. And it miss's half the point of the exersize when you do that. Now rather then learning about our fellow men and women everyone is getting defensive. because something they valued enough to put down that they would pass on (a personal and intimate question) is not being subject to criticized .

But what i would pass on, And BTW there is some very well thought out idea's here.

Sheet music
a list of music notes as a freq
book on physics
book on basic math
book on basic reading
history
literature
history
pop culture crap
my journal.
book on biology
..




and yes I did actually make one.

[WarKitty]

They are marks of humanity yes, but we aren't talking about humans. I agree, by the way, that not having another intelligent species sitting around makes the comparisons harder.

Just to clarify: I'm making a standard philosophical distinction between "human" and "person." A human is a member of the species homo sapiens. A person is an entity that displays sentience. In D&D terms, this means humans, elves, orcs, angels, demons, and so on.

So essentially, I'm arguing that philosophy and art and culture are things that would be interesting to persons, not just human persons, or at least that we have as much reason to believe they would be interesting as we do for our technology.

[warty goblin]

Just to clarify: I'm making a standard philosophical distinction between "human" and "person." A human is a member of the species homo sapiens. A person is an entity that displays sentience. In D&D terms, this means humans, elves, orcs, angels, demons, and so on.

So essentially, I'm arguing that philosophy and art and culture are things that would be interesting to persons, not just human persons, or at least that we have as much reason to believe they would be interesting as we do for our technology.

It's an intellectually valid distinction I agree. However since the set of humans and the set of persons/people/sentient beings are identical at this point in history, we don't know anything about how the broader spectrum of sentience might look.

I'd disagree with your second point on these grounds. We have no evidence that interest in philosophy, history, et cetera is a trait of sentient species. We have very good evidence that desire for food, shelter and so on are traits of pretty much all animals in existence. It's also fairly clear that the payoff of intelligence is that it allows a creature to discover and exploit new ways of maximizing their physical wellbeing and ability to successfully reproduce much more rapidly than genetic evolution can. Note that animals which exhibit notable intelligence and tool use tend to use it for these ends. The reasonable conclusion is that there is strong evidence that any sentient being will be interested in applying its intelligence to improve its material wellbeing.

We have good evidence that science, mathematics and so on provide effective ways to do this. Therefore it seems likely, again based on what evidence we have, that sentient creatures will be interested in things at least resembling science. After all one way to think of science is as the pursuit of better tools. The only evidence we have to suggest that sentient life will care about philosophy is that we do. I find this a much weaker level of support.

[Chilingsworth]

First off, why are we assuming actual human extinction? Collapse of civilization, yes, but I have a hard time believing that anything that is certain to erradicate us outright would have a high chance of leaving this planet habitable to anything that might develop sentience.

Anyway, I'd include several things like this (http://rosettaproject.org/) One exactly as described to help in translation, and the others containing more "useful" information. I'd put the disks and a microscope capable of reading them in a leak and weather-proof container filled with an inert gas, probably argon. Alternatively, maybe a smaller version of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KEO)? (The OP just stated the maximum size of the time capsule, no limitations on where we put it or how we get it there were included.)

Or, if I was in a particularly uncooperative mood, I'd do this (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1915).

[Dienekes]

A letter that says "So you inherited the Earth from us? Good luck with that."

Also if I can, I would rig the box with one of those devises that play something when a card gets opened to play a recording of me laughing whenever any squid man opens the box.

After that, if I feel like it, I may add a list of reasons why we went extinct so maybe the squids can avoid our problems.

[WarKitty]

How about some preserved human DNA and all our cloning research? :smallbiggrin:

[Ravens_cry]

So what, we should halt scientific research right now, because we might do the same?

We, at least, have time to assimilate the knowledge as an indigenous part of our culture, and even then the pace of knowledge can be bewildering and have lead to many situations where our knowledge does indeed exceed our wisdom.


It could be useless yes. It could also be extremely useful. I don't buy the danger argument to a great degree. People have killed each other in enormous numbers, pretty much regardless to what technology they had. Besides, telling somebody how to forge steel isn't giving them a super-weapon and a trigger in one fell swoop. It means they can make better tools - including weapons - but unless they can progress incredibly rapidly that isn't enough to go from stones to machine guns in a generation. Using humanity as an estimator (which is the best we can do, only having the one datapoint) it'll still take hundreds of years.

Funny you should mention steel.
The Hittites were the first on the blcok with iron smelting. Though largely inferior to bronze, its relative cheapness allowed them to amass a large empire. Imagine if they had something that was both cheaper *and* better.


And they wouldn't be fascinated by engineering, metallurgy, chemistry, mathematics and physics? The quest for more effective solutions to real-world problems is certainly one it seems reasonable to assume an intelligent species pursues. The ability to come up with better solutions quickly is, after all, what makes intelligence pay off from an evolutionary point of view.
r.
Sure they would be, I would be, but such knowledge is universally accessible. The laws of physics and chemistry will not change in the intervening years. They can discover them on their own.
On the other hand, detailed knowledge of a past species history and cultures?
Unique.

[The Succubus]

How about some preserved human DNA and all our cloning research? :smallbiggrin:

A nice idea but if Star Wars has taught me anything, it's that being a cloned Stormtrooper really sucks.

[warty goblin]

We, at least, have time to assimilate the knowledge as an indigenous part of our culture, and even then the pace of knowledge can be bewildering and have lead to many situations where our knowledge does indeed exceed our wisdom.
All of which are bad things. They are also solvable problems.

Funny you should mention steel.
The Hittites were the first on the blcok with iron smelting. Though largely inferior to bronze, its relative cheapness allowed them to amass a large empire. Imagine if they had something that was both cheaper *and* better.
They would get a larger empire, which would probably be less violent on net than the precedent tribal warfare. The larger, more centralized government would allow for a greater body of people who didn't have to engage in subsistence agriculture to concentrate in one place. This encourages the spread and development of literacy, education, the arts, and science. Trade also tends to do better when there are the sorts of large urban areas, which is another thing that tends to thrive under stable, centralized governments.


Sure they would be, I would be, but such knowledge is universally accessible. The laws of physics and chemistry will not change in the intervening years. They can discover them on their own.
On the other hand, detailed knowledge of a past species history and cultures?
Unique.

Also of very limited actual direct use. What you propose is rather like wandering into a stone age village and going "No, I refuse to teach you about how to make metal tools, because you might do something that makes me feel bad...Instead, let's share cultures. I'll tell you about what's on TV, you tell me about your 50% infant mortality rate."

I'm sorry, but I don't think the Mona Lisa is worth a few thousand extra years of starvation and poverty.

And Merry Christmas!

[White_Drake]

I find it interesting how you want what is best for the squids. Why should we care? We are dead and gone. I think that given the option I would want some kind of immortality for our race, along the lines of what Ravens_Cry was saying earlier, hence music. I think the argument can be boiled down to science or culture. I support culture, and I think music might be the broadest reaching form of culture powerful enough to affect the listeners.

[Makensha]

All my best writings.

And history will know it as the Era of Makensha.

Of course, they have to figure out what it says first.

Maybe a copy of Hooked on Phonics.

[Reinboom]

Anyway, I'd include several things like this (http://rosettaproject.org/) One exactly as described to help in translation, and the others containing more "useful" information. I'd put the disks and a microscope capable of reading them in a leak and weather-proof container filled with an inert gas, probably argon.

The issue with a disk such as this is that the Rosetta stone (or things of similar usage, languages that work in context of other languages) functions really only due to us having knowledge of how the other languages work.
In order to get direct communication, I'd recommend first placing a similar disk that displays a bunch of pictures and slowly forms a story from them. Going from very simple and then to complex language, over the course of the disk.
The pictures would need to be something that can be understood simply to match the language.

After which, present more and more complex language and ideas. Math, sciences, and so forth. Until finally you can describe a system of high enough complexity as to place some other form of information storage within it, potentially electronic.
At which point, that final piece as reasonably much as we want. Perhaps a few terabytes of something very important to our culture, mixing in an understanding of our basic needs, music, writing, culture, and other functions. So, a few terabytes of porn.

This assumes of course that we could get an electronic storage form that can survive that long.

[warty goblin]

I find it interesting how you want what is best for the squids. Why should we care? We are dead and gone. I think that given the option I would want some kind of immortality for our race, along the lines of what Ravens_Cry was saying earlier, hence music. I think the argument can be boiled down to science or culture. I support culture, and I think music might be the broadest reaching form of culture powerful enough to affect the listeners.

Why wouldn't I want to help the squids? Leaving them a copy of my diary does me no more or less good than leaving them anything else. Leaving them some science and engineering may do them some good. If the cost is no greater, and

Speaking of legacy, let's think about that a bit. Would you rather be remembered as the species that tried to extend help from beyond its own grave, or the species so entirely self-involved it couldn't pass up a single opportunity to yammer about themselves when it does no good to anybody? It's not like leaving behind a scientific record is any less a portrait of humanity than anything else.

[White_Drake]

I doubt that the squids would be that judgemental. I find it more likely they would be happy with either box, seeing as they have no reason to expect anything. It would be like a stranger giving you five dollars rather than twenty.
Also, which box says more about us? Do you want humanity to be remembered as such, or as "those guys that taught us stuff"?
The purpose of my box is to say, "We lived, dammit!"

[shawnhcorey]

A spear point and a gun. The spear point to represent our humanity and the gun to represent that we were stupid enough to let civilization overrun it.

[warty goblin]

I doubt that the squids would be that judgemental. I find it more likely they would be happy with either box, seeing as they have no reason to expect anything. It would be like a stranger giving you five dollars rather than twenty.
Also, which box says more about us? Do you want humanity to be remembered as such, or as "those guys that taught us stuff"?
The purpose of my box is to say, "We lived, dammit!"
Actually I think it'd be more like somebody telling you about all this awesome stuff and how it makes them awesome, but then not telling you how to make any of it because they're too busy explaining how awesome they are.

And again, science is at least as much a part of understanding humanity as the arts and culture are. Either alone paints an incomplete picture I freely admit. The difference is that being remembered as 'those guys that taught us stuff' is quite probably a positive assessment. I know I'd appreciate being told how to make steel, so I could use a high quality sickle with a continuous cutting edge instead of a couple bits of stone set into a bit of wood.

[Murska]

A depiction of how we met our end and how to avoid it.

[nedz]

In theory, much of our metallic garbage could be processed back into usable metal. A bigger problem I see would be the lack of easy to get at fossil hydrocarbons.
A map showing the location of our greatest landfills would seem to be in order, for the first point. For the second, well, most hydrocarbon deposits will refill in geological time — since they are mainly geological traps located above source rocks — so it depends upon how long it takes to recreate an industrial civilisation.

More thoughts here: Consider our own history of hauling off and sometimes damaging historic items. In some cases without realizing they were important (what do you mean I shouldn't haul rock off from that ugly old ruined temple?). So if we didn't know when it would be found, we would want to take care that whatever we included would be easily recognizable and difficult to damage. Conversely, if it was hidden in an obscure place or difficult to open, we have no particular guarantee that it would be found at a time when our scientific knowledge would be useful.
There have been plenty of instances of priceless archaeological documents being burned as kindling: so paper is probably a poor choice.

Microfilm won't last long enough (500years), only thing that might possibly have a chance is pretty much a stone tablet (or since we are super modern a crystal tablet with laser engraving).

Yes — a stone tablet is the way to go. I was going to suggest a non-corroding metal, but that would probably just get melted down.

The real problem to solve is that of providing a Rosetta stone of some kind, but this is hard to allow for since we have no idea of what will follow. There are several ancient texts which we cannot read since the language has been lost. Maybe a simple ABC would be the way to go, since that should help in deciphering any other texts which may have survived.

[The Succubus]

I'd put a My Little Pony in the shoebox, probably Twilight Sparkle, and a small message.

"This idol is representative of our last and greatest divine pantheon. They watched over us from the heavenly realm of Celestia and smote the unbelievers with righteous hooves of hot iron."

With a little luck, we might be trolling archeologists for centuries to come! =D