Best Buffs for persistency

[Bonzai]

Hello,

I've been playing a wizard for a while in a campaign, and I am getting to a point where I can even start to think about using the feat. It's been a while since I've played a Wizard to this level, and I could use a refresher on what I should look to have up.

So what buffs do you think make the best canidates for the persistant meta magic feat?

[Medic!]

While it really isn't the best I think Spellflower would be a unique choice, and I'm sure someone can come up with something awful and terrible to do with it.

[Cranthis]

Not a buff, but cloud of knives is always good to have up.

[Nettlekid]

I'm assuming you have some way of mitigating the metamagic cost of Persist? My favorite is the Anime Mage which gets 3 free metamagics a day by 10th level. Incantatrix and Metaphysical Spellshaper (from Book of Erotic Fantasy, so often unavailable) are other well-known cheesy ones.

Anyway, if you can get higher level spells Persisted, some of my favorites are Greater Blink (50% miss chance and walk through walls), Greater Mirror Image (Why be one person when you can be nine?), Friendly Fire (from Exemplars of Evil, redirect any ranged attack targeting you to another viable target within 30 ft), Draconic Might (+5 Str/Con/Cha, +4 NA, all of which is useful when combined with), Draconic Polymorph (Polymorph but with +8 Str and +2 Con), Wraithstrike if you feel cheesy, Spellcaster's Bane not for the counterspelling but just to be aware of casting, Arcane Sight, and a couple castings of Heroics can give you some nice ToB maneuvers, for one thing. Those are just a few that I like.

[Aegis013]

Greater Mirror Image (Why be one person when you can be nine?),

This one can be double edged. If ever you lose all of your images, the spell ends. So if the DM has something say, Whirlwind attack and nail all of your images, that's a wasted persist.

Might I suggest Ray Deflection instead? Immunity to ranged to touch attacks is pretty absurdly good.

[TroubleBrewing]

Might I suggest Ray Deflection instead? Immunity to ranged to touch attacks is pretty absurdly good.

Wow, what? That sounds AMAZING. Which book is Ray Deflection from?

[Aegis013]

Wow, what? That sounds AMAZING. Which book is Ray Deflection from?

Spell Compendium.

[TroubleBrewing]

Man, I gotta read that one more often.

[Nettlekid]

What I like to do with Greater Mirror Image is keep one overlapping my actual body at all times, so there are only 7 copies and me. For one, it tricks foes into thinking I might have gone invisible and all the copies they see are fakes, and if they do pull something like Whirlwind Attack then I can retreat with the one copy, keeping the spell intact and letting the copies replenish.

Ray Deflection is very good, but check out that Friendly Fire. If it's allowed, it is absolutely superior to Ray Deflection, because it allows redirection and even negates things like the Orb of X spells, not to mention nonmagical projectiles.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'm a big fan of Death Armor and both versions of Fire Shield, all with Persistent and Fell Drain. There are definitely better choices out there, but nothing says "you don't want to attack me" more than three negative levels every time they try to hit you.

[TuggyNE]

What I like to do with Greater Mirror Image is keep one overlapping my actual body at all times, so there are only 7 copies and me. For one, it tricks foes into thinking I might have gone invisible and all the copies they see are fakes, and if they do pull something like Whirlwind Attack then I can retreat with the one copy, keeping the spell intact and letting the copies replenish.

Um, what? How do you arrange for the copy to be outside Whirlwind Attack range, especially with the common interpretation that all (greater) mirror image copies move around within the same space as their caster?

[Nettlekid]

Is that how it works? I thought that each image occupied one 5 ft square, as though it was another creature, just under the requirement that each image be next to either another image or yourself. "Each within 5 ft of an image or you." So you can spread them out into like a long line, or a circle, however you choose. And since you can move through them and they can move through you, you can choose to have one overlap you, so not all would be destroyed when all would be attacked (you take the hit instead, so the image in your space is unaffected).

[Kumori]

What I like to do with Greater Mirror Image is keep one overlapping my actual body at all times, so there are only 7 copies and me. For one, it tricks foes into thinking I might have gone invisible and all the copies they see are fakes, and if they do pull something like Whirlwind Attack then I can retreat with the one copy, keeping the spell intact and letting the copies replenish.

Ray Deflection is very good, but check out that Friendly Fire. If it's allowed, it is absolutely superior to Ray Deflection, because it allows redirection and even negates things like the Orb of X spells, not to mention nonmagical projectiles.


Um, what? How do you arrange for the copy to be outside Whirlwind Attack range, especially with the common interpretation that all (greater) mirror image copies move around within the same space as their caster?


Is that how it works? I thought that each image occupied one 5 ft square, as though it was another creature, just under the requirement that each image be next to either another image or yourself. "Each within 5 ft of an image or you." So you can spread them out into like a long line, or a circle, however you choose. And since you can move through them and they can move through you, you can choose to have one overlap you, so not all would be destroyed when all would be attacked (you take the hit instead, so the image in your space is unaffected).

I'm pretty sure Mirror Image works the way Nettlekid is describing it. I don't see how it could be interpreted as all images are in the same 5' space.

[Boci]

I'm pretty sure Mirror Image works the way Nettlekid is describing it. I don't see how it could be interpreted as all images are in the same 5' space.

It is how it works, but its a PITA, so most groups I've played with follow the FAQ on the issue (yes, I know its not RAW):

Is there a way to decide which squares the figments from a mirror image spell occupy? Or do the images distribute themselves randomly? If it’s the latter, how does the DM decide where they go?
Although the spell description says the images from a
mirror image spell always stay within 5 feet of either the user
or another image, it’s easiest to assume that all the images
occupy the same space the spell user occupies. Any attack that
can reach the user’s space can affect an image.

[Kumori]

Oh, I can see where you're coming from now. My IRL group's never had a problem with it come up, but I can see how it could be.

[Bonzai]

Thanks for the suggestions! Yeah, I have the meta magic covered. Circle Magic + Simulacrum= fun times. So pretty much everything is on the table. There are so many books, I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing anything good.