Hybrid Executioner questions

[Cigam3679]

I have made for myself a Hybrid Executioner/Monk for a side campaign i am running. I have played it already and it seems like a really good combo so far as long as i keep picking powers that use impliments on the assassin side. what im curious about is at level 1, you get Guild Attacks (Hybrid). basically you pick a guild and you get 2 at-will attacks from it. These attacks are not leveled, so they are not Level 1 At-Wills, just class at-will. what im wondering is even tho i get those 2, a at-will from my monk side, do i also get to pick a at-will from assassin since the executioner is a bases off assassin? im trying to follow the hybrid rules on how to make em. If so i would have 4 at-wills.
2 from Guild
1 from Monk
and 1 from Assassin stuff? this right or would i not get to pick the assassin one?
i hope this makes sence

[vasharanpaladin]

No, you do not. Also, keep in mind that you don't benefit from Attack Finesse unless you make a melee basic attack with a weapon.

[allonym]

Well, you get the Attack Finesse damage on assassin powers, too.

And don't worry, you're not missing out on anything by not getting a base assassin at-will.

[Cigam3679]

but i still get encounters and dailys from the assassin class right?

[Alan_Pehnereas]

Actually, RAW states that you WOULD get two Assassin Guild At-Wills and a normal Assassin At-Will.

This is because the normal rules for a Hybrid is that you get one At-Will from each class. So for starters, you'd get one Monk, and one Assassin. But the Guild Attacks (hybrid) class feature states that you gain two attacks from your guild. It, however, does NOT overwrite the one you'd get previously via hybrid rules.

If such was not their intention, they wouldn't have had an alternate wording for the Binder, which explicitly states that it does not receive a normal Warlock At-Will. The Binder hybrid features can be found within the same article.

[Cigam3679]

ah ok. cool thank you. im glad that it is settled...i am starting to see i have a lot of attacks.

[Tegu8788]

I've built a lot of Executioner hybrids using the builder, poaching that Attack Finesse for class that have their own MBA powers, and I have always been given only two guild specific Assassin At-Wills. I've even tried retraining them, and it won't allow for things outside of that Guild.

This is builder, so not a guarantee that it's RAW, but would suggest you would only get 3 At-Wills, unless you are a Human getting an extra. You do gain encounter and daily powers as usual, unless you substitute them for Assassin's Strike or a Poison.

[Cigam3679]

Well im thinking of not worrying about the 3rd assassin power just because i really dont like any of them with this character. but in all either way im really likeing this now level 7 Drow Executioner/Monk. took feats to get the unarmed combatant feature and a feat to make the damage 1d10. improved init to make his init the highest in the group and. he is fun.

[Tegu8788]

Just realize that none of your Striker features overlap. Executioner only works with its own powers and MBAs, exclusive to weapon powers. Monks don't have any weapon powers, and FoBs only triggers on Monk attacks. You can play a very agile Executioner that punches things to death, as long as you have a dagger ready, a lot of their powers require you to use a certain type of weapon.

Have fun, and enjoy!

[Alan_Pehnereas]

I think RAI might be just the two powers from the Guild. But looking at the actual wording for both the entry for At-Wills for a hybrid and the particular class feature, it doesn't say anything about not not getting a normal At-Will - contrary to the wording of the Binder.

However, it really doesn't matter. It's true - the Assassin's At-Wills are HORRIBLE.

[Cigam3679]

With the Hybrid Talent Unarmed Combatant and the Improved Unarmed Combatant feats you can use your unarmed strikes as a weapon. That way the assassin powers that use weapons would still be accurate and with 1d10 damage. that way no matter the power you use, you can use the Assassin Strike power (since if i read correctly it takes place of a encounter with a level) and it still be extra 1d10, and with that you can use the Attack Finess with the assassin strike. In the first round of combat as long as im hitting a unharmed enemy i can use Open the Field Of battle monk encounter, so 1d10 +dex, an extra 1d10 for it being a unharmed enemy, Use Flurry of Blows, get to use Assassin Strike for extra 1d10 and then attack finess ,because of the assassin strike, so extra 1d8. First round is 3d10+dex mod+1d8+stone fist flurry (3+str mod).

[Tegu8788]

Unfortunately, you are not reading it right. Attack Finesse only allows you to apply the extra 1d8 to assassin powers and MBAs. Assassin Strike only works with weapon powers. If you can turn your fist into a "weapon," then yes, I think you can use Assassin's Strike on a Monk attack, you only need to hit a creature within 5 squares with an attack using a weapon.

Things get a little iffy if you are using a weapon to make an implement attack, but I'd try it. A single hand would obviously be a one-handed weapon in my book. But I don't think Assassin's Strike counts as an attack to stack Attack Finesse on, as it does not have an attack roll.

One of the big advantages I just realized is Attack Finesse allows you to substitute Dex for Str in MBAs, which means you should have very good MBAs now.

[vasharanpaladin]

Things get a little iffy if you are using a weapon to make an implement attack, but I'd try it. A single hand would obviously be a one-handed weapon in my book. But I don't think Assassin's Strike counts as an attack to stack Attack Finesse on, as it does not have an attack roll.


No, they don't. Attack Finesse calls out "weapon attacks," not "attacks with a weapon." That is, it only functions if the attack has the weapon keyword, which the monk's powers don't. :smallsigh:

At the risk of putting too much of a damper on the enthusiasm here, there's a reason it's most often paired with warlock or avenger.

[Cigam3679]

in PHB1 in the weapons section, there is Improvised Weapons. Under One Handed Melee under the improvised Weapons is Unarmed Strike. so fists. The Assassin Strike only calls for you have hit with a weapon, a fist is considered a weapon in this manner. I am seeing that the attack finess wouldnt work because the assassin strike doesnt actually have the weapon keyword. so thats my error for not noticing that beforehand