[Pathfinder]: Help! Class Choice: Level 4, 6-member Party

[Lazij Scalesong]

Or, more aptly, how not to be an awkward sixth leg on this Roving Mauler.

I am currently playing the Sixth Ranger of a six-person group as a 3rd-party-revised Gunslinger, with considerable damage contribution to the group.

Due to RP reasons in this extremely RP-heavy group, my Gunslinger will be leaving due to her own devices and an inability to mix with the party. Out of Character, I have serious doubts about the balance of the 3rd-party gunslinger/firearms material, and don't want to be in it out of respect for the GM and the game (THOUGH this isn't my primary reason)

Thus, I need a replacement character whose abilities replace the damage lost with either similar damage, a boost in utility, or another tank for the party. Preferably one that doesn't leave me safe in the middle of my casters plugging away for 3d6/touch AC every round while sitting next to the healer.

The problem: Our party compositon has everything, and I don't want to step on someone's toes.

Party:
Barbarian (Damage!)
Cleric (Healing predominantly, much needed, despite normally being a waste)
Rogue (Social)
Summoner (Buffs, Eidolon tanks very well)
Sorcerer (Very Blasty)
+ Former Gunslinger (Me, easy consistent damage)

It is a very wilderness/dungeon campaign, that can change depending on the players. The predominant enemy we've faced so far are lycanthropes. We don't see a lot of civilization. Thus far, we've either destroyed every multiple-enemy fight we've come across (with a lot of HP loss ourselves, but I'd consider our victories overwhelming and the damage taken repairable), or barely scraped out alive from the 'boss' fights with multiple K.O.'s.

I wanted to roll a Rogue, at first, for sneak attack, to get in on flanky goodness, but it feels wrong to me to have two rogues in the party, even if the first isn't combat focused. Ditto for doubling up primary arcane and divine spellcasters (even if they would do different roles, I.E. battlefield control and battle-cleric-ing/wild-shaping, respectively). I'm iffy on adding another melee.

I'm at a loss for a role. I could do ranged damage, but I abhor ranger as I already have one in a VERY similar game run by the same GM (mostly different people, I'm there to pad it out). Alternatively, I could do a tanky fighter (or, funner, Aldori Swordlord archetype) and do that a bit more. I had a few character concepts for a nature-themed Nature Oracle, but wasn't sure on the potency versus just having a buffing cleric or druid.

Thoughts:
-I don't want Alchemist. Period.
-Third Party allowed if thoroughly examined and allowed tweaking by GM
-Want a strong capacity for 'flavor', while not sacrificing power (this is a lethal game).
-Support, DPS, or Meat-Shielding is preferred.

Characterization Possibilities:
-Cocky Mercenary/Swordsman (Aldori Swordlord???)
-Deaf Mystic (Nature Oracle? Are oracles better at anything than Clerics?)
-Other things? Suggestions?

========
TL;DR:
Primary Arcane/Divine Casters taken (DPS/HEALING respectively)
Rogue taken
Two Front-Liners (Damage, and Damage/Tank) taken.
WUT I DOOOOOZ?!?!

EDIT: And 'not leaving the party' is a bad idea. The character (and all the others, for that matter) is driven heavily by roleplay.

DoubleEDIT: I guess I could just go something and double up anyways, if all the roles are filled...

[Crustypeanut]

Well, any party could certainly use a bard, first off. Bards are easily the best support characters evar. And if you go with a bow, you could work as a fairly good archer-bard, maintaining your usefulness as support while providing useful physical ranged firepower.

Another choice could be an 'Aragorn' Ranger.. one who is excellent at both close-combat with his Greatsword (Or other Two-handed Weapon), while simultaneously being good at ranged with his preferred ranged weapon. Basically, this guy shoots his bow until he gets stuck in melee, then he simply drops his bow and pulls out his weapon and starts hacking away.

And then theres one more idea.. an Inquisitor. You have a small number of divine spells, without pushing into the cleric's territory, you have a high number of skill points without pushing into the rogue's territory, and you have enough combat capability in either melee or ranged (Or possibly both, depending on how you build it) to kill things, and enough durability to act as a last-ditch tank.

Plus, Inquisitors can adjust their tactics fairly well against different enemies with their Bane ability. Fighting Lycanthropes? Toss on a Shapechange Bane and vuala! +2 enhancement bonus and +2d6 vs them, works with either ranged or melee. They also have their nifty self-teamwork abilities. Plus, you can act as a Warhammer 40k Inquisitor for shenanigans!

The Inquisitor can potentially act as a back-up socializer or scout as well, depending on how you build him, though it seems you have enough social types. As for spells, you can rely more on buffs to the party, since your cleric seems to be relying more on heals. Let him do the healing, you do the buffing/debuffing.

And with you around, no one will be able to lie to the party! Woo! Sadly, you have to wait until level 5 for that Bane ability, but until then you at least have Judgement, which can be switched around to provide Save bonuses, AC, fast healing, or attack/damage. Its quite a versatile buff that can be switched as a swift action each round as needed.

[Lazij Scalesong]

I love your style of thinking!

I had considered Bard, but I really don't like the cheerful, almost ditzy feel of the class (I can work around this by making a very 'Dashing Swordsman' or 'Evil Rhetorical-Questions-Guy' character), and potentially be useful. It's not high on a list of priorities, though. Biting, quipish, and dangerously savvy.

I have a ranger in another (similar, same GM) campaign. He's built exactly like an Aragorn ranger: Melee feats for his regulars, archery feats for his combat style. Very fun, very effective. But not something I want to duplicate for this.

Inquisitor... When you phrase it like that, it seems a lot funner than my initial run through of the class. A less paladin-esque paladin. I'll look into it. I'm almost half-tempted to make it a kobold, strangely enough, but maybe it would be best to avoid that route.

[Crustypeanut]

Out of Character, I have serious doubts about the balance of the 3rd-party gunslinger/firearms material, and don't want to be in it out of respect for the GM and the game (THOUGH this isn't my primary reason)


If you mean the Gunslinger and associates firearms material from the Ultimate Combat book, in no way what-so-ever is that 3rd party. Its Paizo-made completely, although it can certainly be a bit powerful.



Edit: Hehe, Kobold Inquisitor.. that would be interesting. I've been thinking of a Grey-Knight type Inquisitor myself.. a Half-Giant (Minus the Psionic stuff) wearing Full Plate using a Large Halberd and Large Buckler Gun.. >:P

[docnessuno]

Seconding the inquisitor, it's a nice class with good combat capabilities, enough skillpoints to support your play and plenty of RP hooks.

[Gnorman]

I would vote for bard or druid. Both are great choices for a fifth (or sixth) wheel, as they can fill a multitude of roles depending on the situation.

Battlefield control is a very important role you seem to be lacking, so a wizard specializing in conjuration might be nice. The summoner may overlap with this, but if you concentrate on debuffing spells like Grease or Glitterdust, it could work out.

Essentially, I think you should concentrate on making stuff easier for your party members - you can feel like you're contributing while still letting them have their moments to shine.

[Lazij Scalesong]

If you mean the Gunslinger and associates firearms material from the Ultimate Combat book, in no way what-so-ever is that 3rd party. Its Paizo-made completely, although it can certainly be a bit powerful.



Edit: Hehe, Kobold Inquisitor.. that would be interesting. I've been thinking of a Grey-Knight type Inquisitor myself.. a Half-Giant (Minus the Psionic stuff) wearing Full Plate using a Large Halberd and Large Buckler Gun.. >:P

No, I'm referring to another Gunslinger entirely, with different firearm rules (Reload times being different, quick-reload ammo cylinders, different Grit mechanics...) I like the UC Gunslinger, but I don't like the misfires and I persuaded him to try out the 3rd party rewrite I found.

And yes. Kobolds are <3 8D Also, wouldn't Grey-Knights -have- the psionic stuff? ;D


I would vote for bard or druid. Both are great choices for a fifth (or sixth) wheel, as they can fill a multitude of roles depending on the situation.


Bard also seems fun. I'll think on it. Druid is looking less and less fun, for some reason though.

Thanks folks!

[Corlindale]

Sensei Monk may be an interesting option. You get to inspire courage like a bard, but the fluff is vastly different. You get to play the old, wise master guiding your allies in combat.

Combine with Quingong Monk to take further advantage of being Wisdom-SAD and get some nifty KI abilities that will drastically improve your power level.

[Crustypeanut]

Grey Knights would have the Psionic Stuff for sure, but many people (not me) dislike Psionics as a whole, so it would probably be more acceptable to omit the Psionics stuff.


Also, the mis-fire stuff of the UC Gunslinger is really what balances it out a bit. Roll a 1-2? Oops! Now you have to clear your gun.. sometimes it might even go higher, and be on a roll 1-3 or more. Even if you would normally hit on a 2 or higher, as Gunslinger's are gods of accuracy.. usually.

[Dayaz]

Your group has a summoner with tank, a dps blaster, a dps melee, a healer, and a buffer.

You are missing a Battlefield Controller/Debuffer

I would normally say Wizard, but I know Bards are good debuffers, I just don't know their BC stuff very well. Since you have a dedicated buffer, try out the debuff bard and lol at the swarms of monsters since you gimp them as he pumps the team.

Bards get Grease, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, and that spell that makes the person dance right?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Bard could be good, definitely. Consider Chelish Deva as a solid all-around archetype or Dirge Bard if you fight undead frequently.

Have you considered Ranger? It would let you be a ranged attacker and good at stealth/scouting for the party. Zen Archer Monk can also fll this sort of role. A bow-using Fighter can as well, if you dip Ranger (in which case you may want to take the Trapper archetype and/or the Freebooter archetype, they're terribad for straight classed rangers but nice for dipping).

For battlefield control... summoner gets a TON of conjuration BFC spells, so presumably that is covered for the party. Buffing, ranged, and maybe stealth seems to be the biggest "hole" to fill to me.

Inquisitor is ok for melee, but I would not play a ranged inquisitor, the class really doesn't support ranged combat at all. No bonus feats to help with the massive early crush ranged requires. There are a grand total of 2 ranged-related tactical feats and neither can be had at 3rd level. The medium BAB + lack of bonus feats means you will be waiting till level 9+ for manyshot and clustered shots and level FIFTEEN for improved precise shot. The Judgments help a bit, but really are small potatoes. I also consider a complete lack of access to Point Blank Master pretty painful; ZA Monk, Ranger, and Fighter can all obtain it (and a rare few other classes that get a "fighter level" like Eldritch Knight), no one else can. This is a problem in a game where Step Up is a feat with no pre-reqs other than BAB +1, at least in my view.

[doko239]

If you want Debuffer/Battlefield Control, go with a Witch. Arguably even better at it than a Wizard, though they have fewer options.

At this level, Evil Eye + Cackle is insanely powerful and will outright win most fights.

[Kobold Esq]

I see no wizard. How much utility casting does the summoner actually have?

[StreamOfTheSky]

If you want Debuffer/Battlefield Control, go with a Witch. Arguably even better at it than a Wizard, though they have fewer options.

At this level, Evil Eye + Cackle is insanely powerful and will outright win most fights.

Witch's spell list is much worse than wizard's for BFC, and about on par for debuffing, maybe slightly weaker.

Evil Eye + Cackle is not even close to powerful, let alone insanely so. SLUMBER kinda is....it's basically the reason to play a witch.


I see no wizard. How much utility casting does the summoner actually have?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/spell-lists-and-domains/spell-lists---summoner

While they are 6-level casters like bards, note the huge amount of spells that come at lower levels, sometimes 2 or 3 levels lower. They get haste at character level 4, earlier than any other caster, which on its own is incredible. They also get most if not all of the big hits of the BFC section of conjuration.

[eastmabl]

Gotta recommend bard here. The larger the party, the more beneficial the bard is, as your songs are making everyone that much better.