2 Immovable Rods [PF]

[gr8artist]

Immovable Rod
This rod looks like a flat iron bar with a small button on one end.
When the button is pushed (a move action), the rod does not move from where it is, even if staying in place defies gravity. Thus, the owner can lift or place the rod wherever he wishes, push the button, and let go. Several immovable rods can even make a ladder when used together (although only two are needed). An immovable rod can support up to 8,000 pounds before falling to the ground. If a creature pushes against an immovable rod, it must succeed at a DC 30 Strength check to move the rod up to 10 feet in a single round.
Q1: If I build a platform and put two of them underneath it, can that platform support 16,000 lbs?
Q2: If I put both behind a door, what is the DC to push that door with a strength check?

Math I did, that may help:
(See chart on p.171 of Core Rulebook)
Str 27 can lift over 2000 lbs. (1040 lbs heavy load)
Str 37 can lift over 8000 lbs. (4160 lbs heavy load) - Same as 1 rod
Str 22 can lift over 1000 lbs. (520 lbs heavy load)
Str 32 can lift over 4000 lbs. (2080 lbs heavy load)
Str 42 can lift over 1600 lbs. (8320 lbs heavy load) - Hypothetically 2 rods
That's a +5 Str increase to lift the amount of a second rod, so theoretically the DC would increase by +5?

[Reynard]

Q1: I suppose this depends on the material and methods used to make the platform, as it might break before the rods give out., but it'd be around 16,000 minus the weight of the platform itself.

Q2: Entirely up to the DM. And of course, if it's a DC 30-40 check to move the rods together, but a DC 20 check to just break the door into pieces, you can bet which one the PCs will make first.

[gr8artist]

Thanks. Those were just sample questions. There are other ways to use them, like a sleight of hand check to put one in someone's backpack (fun times) or hanging from midair. The force and carrying cap matter in those situations as well.

[drew2u]

If you want to have more fun, the immovable rods are not susceptible to the rotation of the earth. Therefore once activated, they start moving in a westerly direction at 1,040 mph!

[ahenobarbi]

If you want to have more fun, the immovable rods are not susceptible to the rotation of the earth. Therefore once activated, they start moving in a westerly direction at 1,040 mph!

What earth?

[Reynard]

If you want to have more fun, the immovable rods are not susceptible to the rotation of the earth. Therefore once activated, they start moving in a westerly direction at 1,040 mph!

They might, depending on time of day, also tunnel straight down through it as well, peeling the planet like an apple, if that was the case.

But it isn't since if it were, nobody would ever make an Immovable Rod. It' be pointless, all that time and effort for a stick that, when activated, removes your hand and leaves the planet until such time as the planet's orbit comes back to it.

[RFLS]

What earth?

Some people actually play in something other than Greyhawke/Faerun/Eberron; I know I tend to prefer worlds where physics works.

And, if we're really on a catgirl-killing spree, it should be pointed out that the solar system is also moving, and that the rod would probably actually hit the earth somewhere near the speed of light. (http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/)

[elonin]

That is a fun thing to consider but there is no guarantee that dnd cosmology is the same as real world cosmology. Earth rotation would also foul up teleportation.

[ahenobarbi]

Some people actually play in something other than Greyhawke/Faerun/Eberron; I know I tend to prefer worlds where physics works.

And, if we're really on a catgirl-killing spree, it should be pointed out that the solar system is also moving, and that the rod would probably actually hit the earth somewhere near the speed of light. (http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/)

Well if we bring physics into this... the rod doesn't specify in what frame of reference it's "immovable". So it's safe to assume it's "immovable" relative to ground (and works as intended).

[RFLS]

Well if we bring physics into this... the rod doesn't specify in what frame of reference it's "immovable". So it's safe to assume it's "immovable" relative to ground (and works as intended).

The first concept listed in this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_relativity) is the important one here; the rod has no way to determine what it's immovable in reference to; by your argument, the rod should just randomly pick something to be immovable in reference to.

[WildPyre]

The first concept listed in this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_relativity) is the important one here; the rod has no way to determine what it's immovable in reference to; by your argument, the rod should just randomly pick something to be immovable in reference to.

Sure it has a way to determine that... it's magic. :vaarsuvius:

[ericgrau]

The rods are immovable relative to the earth, bam, the catgirls are saved.

And anyway the earth is moving relative to the sun, the sun relative to the center of the galaxy and even the center of the galaxy isn't a stationary reference point. There is no stationary. So if you want to kill catgirls the only two answers are that it (a) works exactly the way you'd think it works or (b) the concept of motionless doesn't actually exist so they don't work at all. They don't move relative to a moving earth due to being stationary, they just fail to function period.

Catgirls are a surprisingly long lived species.

To answer the OP most things you put on the rods will break long before the rods are moved, but ya otherwise that works.

[RFLS]

Sure it has a way to determine that... it's magic. :vaarsuvius:


And anyway the earth is moving relative to the sun, the sun relative to the center of the galaxy and even the center of the galaxy isn't a stationary reference point. There is no stationary. So if you want to kill catgirls the only two answers are that it (a) works exactly the way you'd think it works or (b) the concept of motionless doesn't actually exist so they don't work at all. They don't move relative to a moving earth due to being stationary, they just fail to function period.

Hm...I suppose you could say that they're immovable relative to your shared inertial frame.

Nitpick: Immovable as a concept most definitely does exist either way; the problem was how you define what it's immovable relative to.

[gr8artist]

I figured the rods used the mass of the object with the most pull on them as a point of reference. Since objects we drop don't fly toward the sun, the rod wouldn't use the sun as a reference point. This principle would work in other planes, anywhere where some gravity works. In space, however, they cease to function.
Not that it really matters

[Kumori]

I figured the rods used the mass of the object with the most pull on them as a point of reference. Since objects we drop don't fly toward the sun, the rod wouldn't use the sun as a reference point. This principle would work in other planes, anywhere where some gravity works. In space, however, they cease to function.
Not that it really matters

I was going to say this very thing. I was ninja'd before I even finished reading the thread...

[TuggyNE]

In space, however, they cease to function.

I was with you up to here. Space does not work that way! There is, quite demonstrably, gravity in space; see orbiting satellites, the moon, the earth, the sun, the entire Milky Way, etc ad infinitum.

(Other than that, I assume "magic" is still being used to compensate for rotation.)

[ericgrau]

Uses in space could be interesting depending on how you select your frame of reference. If you select the closest body then space ships might dive, release the rods and pull up to use them as weapons since they continue to move at the ship's former speed and direction. If you select the largest nearby body and/or gravitational force, then people might board an enemy ship near a planet, activate the rods and then teleport out as the ship keeps moving and gets holes ripped in its hull.

A good hybrid might be to select the nearest gravitational body except when there is enough momentum to cancel the gravity, such as an orbit. Then your frame of reference is the ship.

[kharmakazy]

I think it's important to note that the rods are clearly not immovable at all, they are just difficult to move.

[TuggyNE]

A good hybrid might be to select the nearest gravitational body except when there is enough momentum to cancel the gravity, such as an orbit. Then your frame of reference is the ship.

Yeah, that would probably work fairly well, and it's actually something technology can do rather easily. (Just measure effective weight of a small mass along several axes to determine the direction of the most significant non-orbited gravity source.)

[Fyermind]

Back to one of the original ideas, what happens if I slip a immovable rod into a characters backpack and press the button?

Could I do the above with mage hand?

I doubt this is covered by any rules, so as a DM what would you have happen?

[Story]

Is this a mundane backpack, or a handy haversack or the like? If it's in an extradimensional space, I don't think moving the opening moves the rod. If it's mundane, they try and fail to move the backup and then just look in the backpack and find the rod, but if they tried to suddenly sprint away from you or something, you would have already caught them, so the purpose is served.

[Zeb]

Mage hand cant move magic objects so you have to put it there the old fasion way and then it has cover so you probably cant use mage hand to "press" the button.

[Story]

Unseen Servant should work though.

[gr8artist]

Fun use: Fighting in a crowded hallway making it hard to get a clear shot? Take a running jump off the wall and click the button at the height of your jump. Decent check should put you 5' up in the air. Now hang from your skyhook and fire away with your revolver/hand-crossbow.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Mage hand cant move magic objects
Where'd you gather this tidbit? It's not in the spell description...

And yes, with creativity, Immovable Rods are fun.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Where'd you gather this tidbit? It's not in the spell description...

And yes, with creativity, Immovable Rods are fun.

Target: One nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lb.


One immovable rod is fun, two are amazing, never ending monkey bars that travel with you? descend from any height by dropping from one to the other? mid-air garrotte? also instant hammock ANYWHERE!