A Swordsage/Monk Question

[Reavent]

Say you have a Swordsage 3/Monk 2 with a wisdom of 16. If such character did not wear any armor would his wisdom bonus stack twice for his AC? I only ask because I'm entertaining the idea of a Swordsage 3/Monk 2/Shadow Sun Ninja X and I'm wondering if he wore no armor would he gain his wisdom bonus twice?

[OracleofWuffing]

The Swordsage AC bonus requires one to wear light armor.

[JaronK]

By RAW, they don't stack, because you have to be wearing light armor for the Swordsage bonus to work. By RAI, they don't stack, because the FAQ (IIRC) says they don't.

JaronK

[Fates]

The Swordsage AC bonus requires one to wear light armor.

True, though many DMs allow it while wearing no armour anyway because that makes way more sense. Either way, an unarmed swordsage (who gets wisdom to AC while unarmed) would theoretically have a wisdom bonus to AC from monk too, and because they are untyped bonuses they would stack. However, as a DM, I would not allow the abilities to stack, as the unarmed swordsage is basically just an ungraded monk, and the two AC bonuses function exactly thew same way and are in all ways essentially the same bonus, but by strict reading of the rules, there's no saying the bonuses don't stack.

[docnessuno]

but by strict reading of the rules, there's no saying the bonuses don't stack.

As already noted, by strict reading of the rules they might stack, but yu cannot acquire them both at the same time.

So, RAW: No (Swordsage requires light armor)
RAI: No (same kind of bonus, also outlined in the FAQ as not stacking)

[OracleofWuffing]

Either way, an unarmed swordsage (who gets wisdom to AC while unarmed) would theoretically have a wisdom bonus to AC from monk too, and because they are untyped bonuses they would stack.
The Adaptation for unarmed swordsages does not give them Wisdom to AC while unarmed. They gain the monk's unarmed strike progression, and lose light armor proficiency. That's it.

It goes without saying that a DM can rule otherwise, but at that point why are you playing a Swordsage/Monk when a Motorcycle Centaur exists? :smalltongue:

[RFLS]

If I remember correctly, under no circumstances do they stack, because they're the same class feature and you don't acquire the same bonus twice if you happen to have the same class feature twice, unless (such as Evasion) it explicitly says what happens to it if you have it twice, or (like Darkvision) it often tells you in one or the other sources that they stack. There was a discussion about it in the handbook for Swordsage (still working on it) in my sig, IIRC.

[Reavent]

Thank you for the replies. So basically the only benefit would be that if the character was captured and was stripped of their equipment, then he would get his wisdom to AC.

[Namfuak]

Thank you for the replies. So basically the only benefit would be that if the character was captured and was stripped of their equipment, then he would get his wisdom to AC.

He would get his wisdom to AC so long as he wasn't wearing anything heavier than light armor, he just would never get both bonuses at the same time.

[Feralventas]

It might be easier to get 2 stats to AC than the same stat twice. Kung-fu Genius sets Monk abilities off Int instead. Battle Dancer is Cha to AC if you can avoid the alignment restriction (non-lawful). Fist of the Forest for Con. The x-stat to y- bonus thread can help with more.

[Mephit]

It might be easier to get 2 stats to AC than the same stat twice. Kung-fu Genius sets Monk abilities off Int instead. Battle Dancer is Cha to AC if you can avoid the alignment restriction (non-lawful). Fist of the Forest for Con. The x-stat to y- bonus thread can help with more.

That would still not work. All those feats do is change the stat the Monk bonus to AC is based on, not how the bonus actually works.

[animewatcha]

Level-based AC can be made a case for, but the stat bonus stacking will if different stat sources. The handy-dandy NPC stat block for fist of the forest will show you.

-edited-

[Feralventas]

That would still not work. All those feats do is change the stat the Monk bonus to AC is based on, not how the bonus actually works.

Untyped bonuses stack, and no particular type is given by the SRD text on Monk's bonus AC.

I recently helped design a build for a player that had all but strength and Cha to AC, then dex and int to damage.

[TuggyNE]

Untyped bonuses stack, and no particular type is given by the SRD text on Monk's bonus AC.

The only question is whether slightly different class features with the same name from different classes count as the same source.

[Mephit]

Untyped bonuses stack, and no particular type is given by the SRD text on Monk's bonus AC.

I thought I'd snipped parts of the quote, huh. Apparently, I didn't.

I was talking about using the Kung-Fu Genius feat; which still mean you'd be trying to combine the Monk bonus and Swordsage bonus, which still wouldn't work for reasons posted above.
Fist of the Forest and Battle Dancer could stack with eachother/other classes, yeah.

[Feralventas]

I thought I'd snipped parts of the quote, huh. Apparently, I didn't.

I was talking about using the Kung-Fu Genius feat; which still mean you'd be trying to combine the Monk bonus and Swordsage bonus, which still wouldn't work for reasons posted above.
Fist of the Forest and Battle Dancer could stack with eachother/other classes, yeah.

You mean you wouldn't let someone take Paladin2/Rogue5/Slayer of Domiel to get Divine Grace bonuses twice? :D

Fair point though; I'd say since the player's already making themself MAD at that point that it'd fly, but I get the rules interpretation now, thanks.

[Hiro Protagonest]

You mean you wouldn't let someone take Paladin2/Rogue5/Slayer of Domiel to get Divine Grace bonuses twice? :D

No. Kami's Grace from the Witch Hunter does work, however.