Help fixing the dread necromancer

[Zelkon]

It sucks at what it should do. Period. How can I make it a rezing powerhouse? It needs to be the best undead-raiser out there.

[Jallorn]

I don't know what you mean, it doesn't suck at that at all. It's better than any other base class. It's got Rebuke Undead, so it can control a bunch there, it's got a boost to undead it animates itself, two in fact, being able to make more and make them stronger. About the only downside to being a Dread Necro over a Cleric necro is you get Animate Dead a little bit later.

[bobthe6th]

Ashen necromancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72954&highlight=ashen+necromancer)
Done.

After that, just modify Doll judgment discipline and play a swordsage.

[vasharanpaladin]

It sucks at what it should do. Period. How can I make it a rezing powerhouse? It needs to be the best undead-raiser out there.

It has Rebuke Undead, desecrate and Undead Mastery. It's already the best undead horde platform in existence.

[Giegue]

/thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9042269)

In all seriousness, though, the ONLY thing wrong with the DN was some sketchy elements of it's spell list. The above fix rectifies ALL issues with the DN spell list without significantly changing it in any way which would be denied you by a DM. Without that spell list fix the Dread Necromancer was already the BEST animator of undead in the game. With it the DN becomes flawless class....a paragon of what it means to be a necromancer and a tier 3 class.

[Zelkon]

It has Rebuke Undead, desecrate and Undead Mastery. It's already the best undead horde platform in existence.

Cleric gets all of that, but earlier, and has a crap ton of more stuff. But thank you, everyone, for the links. The spell list is great, and I'm looking through the Ashen Necromancer now.

[JoshuaZ]

The DN is pretty decent as is. If you are really bothered by it specifically about when they can make undead, just change animate dead to a third level spell.

In my campaign world, DN's get a few minor upgrades: Animate dead is third level. Their spells progress slightly faster (so they get new spell levels at each odd level rather than even levels), their advanced learning happens at every even level rather than every four levels, and undead mastery is fixed in the obvious way to make multiclassing nice. This moves DNs to the top of T3 and make so good at undead that they might arguably be T2.

[Just to Browse]

I'll also follow suit with a link drop (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Tome_of_Necromancy_%283.5e_Sourcebook%29) to the Tome of Necromancy by F&K. It gives rules for controlling undead via feats (keyed off charisma) and an exhaustive list of the creation requirements for just about every undead ever. If you're trying to make the DN better at controlling the undead, the feats in Tome of Necromancy are a good choice. If you're trying to make an undead knight or something, look at the Tome of Necromancy prestige classes (specifically Death King).

If you just want to just have easy and potent undead control, look into the Death Master from Dragon Compendium (it has the WotC stamp on it, but isn't technically official so check with your DM). It gets the following:

Can cast spells without somatic components, so no ASF.
Light armor proficiency and a d8 hit die
Medium BAB coupled with full casting and wizard spells per day
An undead companion at level 1, similar in flexibility to the druid companion
Animate dead as a 2nd-level spell and create undead as a 5th-level spell. That's 1 spell level ahead of normal and two ahead of the DN.
Basically no class features... this isn't really a positive, but it does give very obvious breakpoints if optimizing is tough for you.

[Zelkon]

I'll also follow suit with a link drop (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Tome_of_Necromancy_%283.5e_Sourcebook%29) to the Tome of Necromancy by F&K. It gives rules for controlling undead via feats (keyed off charisma) and an exhaustive list of the creation requirements for just about every undead ever. If you're trying to make the DN better at controlling the undead, the feats in Tome of Necromancy are a good choice. If you're trying to make an undead knight or something, look at the Tome of Necromancy prestige classes (specifically Death King).

If you just want to just have easy and potent undead control, look into the Death Master from Dragon Compendium (it has the WotC stamp on it, but isn't technically official so check with your DM). It gets the following:

Can cast spells without somatic components, so no ASF.
Light armor proficiency and a d8 hit die
Medium BAB coupled with full casting and wizard spells per day
An undead companion at level 1, similar in flexibility to the druid companion
Animate dead as a 2nd-level spell and create undead as a 5th-level spell. That's 1 spell level ahead of normal and two ahead of the DN.
Basically no class features... this isn't really a positive, but it does give very obvious breakpoints if optimizing is tough for you.

Wow, that's really powerful.

[Just to Browse]

I know right? It's amazing, I love it.

It's around tier 2 because the cleric and wizard get similar and stronger tricks (just slightly later), but it gives you a free spellstitch-able companion.

[EdroGrimshell]

I know right? It's amazing, I love it.

Gestalt it with DN.

[Just to Browse]

Gestalt it with DN.

Getting Int/Cha dependence seems less ideal... Wizard seems a better choice.

[Zelkon]

Getting Int/Cha dependence seems less ideal... Wizard seems a better choice.

Not really. Would you rather have twice the slots with good undead creating or a few bonus spells?

[bobthe6th]

Not really. Would you rather have twice the slots with good undead creating or a few bonus spells?

well it would mean getting two 19s by level 17... a difficult proposition short of high PB.

[Just to Browse]

well it would mean getting two 19s by level 17... a difficult proposition short of high PB.

Yeah, Bob has got it. Also gestalting caster classes doesn't usually give a better chassis, and ends up with a bunch of extra spells that aren't all that great (since the spell lists are so similar and neither is buff-centric)... but this is for another thread.