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jokeaccount
2012-12-23, 08:08 PM
While studying for midterms yesterday I thought of a class concept that seemed really interesting and pretty standard too (I believe its not really insane or w/e). I looked around a bit and didn't find anything similar although it is so basic that I wouldn't be surprised if someone else has made something similar.

The basic concept of the Enchantrix Class is that he is a Fighter with the limited magical ability of enchanting his weapons, armor and shield. He functions like a wizard or sorcerer in that he learns a specific number of enchants while getting more class levels. He can also do the "magic weapon" enchants up to the standard +5. The enchants he learns are derived from the DMG list for magical weapons and armor. Additional stuff can be added just like a wizard can learn spells from other books other than the PHB.

To begin, here is that class table:

http://i.imgur.com/MjH3Y.jpg

Features:
-HP: d10 (d8 considered, just like duskblade)

-BAB: Good BAB

-Saves: Good Fort and Will (represents his training in both Physical and Arcane disciplines)

-Skills:
Climb (Str),Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Profession* (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Points: 4+Int modifier

These skills were chosen from the Fighter and Wizard class skills list in order to showcase the Enchantrix's training in both Martial and Arcane disciplines. I've removed Decipher Script because I believe it does not fit RP-wise. All the other skills seem pretty basic for someone who has trained as a Fighter and has some knowledge of magic. Use Magic Device was given since it also fits RP-wise since this is a character who uses magic exclusively through items and also to boost the class's utility a bit.

*Should profession be limited to Blacksmith?

-Arcane Sight: Gains arcane sight as spell-like ability but only for recognizing magical auras of weapons and armor. He can recognize exactly what the auras do, i.e he understands what enchants the equipment boasts.

-Bonus Fighter Feats: He gains half the Fighter's bonus feats, rounded down (he gains 5, the Fighter gains 11)

-Enchants: He gains the ability to enchant his gear at will.
He begins by learning how to make weapons and armor magical with a +1 enhancement at level 3. This increases by one every 3 levels up to +5.
At level 4, he learns some (all?) +1 equivalent defensive enchants i.e enchants for armor and shields. The level of enchants he can learn increases by 1 every 3 levels going up to the +5 equivalent enchants
At level 5, the same thing happens but with weapon enchants. Every 3 levels there is an increase.
The total number of enchants he can but to a piece of gear is equal to the total of his Enhancement+Enchant level. A level 10 enchantrix can imbue his armor with a total of +6 (+3 Ghost touch for example), but he can imbue his weapon with only +5 total (+3 Flaming Burst for example) since he learns the +3 weapon enchants at level 11.
The Enchantrix learns more enchants as he levels up (the number of enchants known is represented by the "X'es" on the table)

-Legendary Enchanter: At 20th level the Enchantrix's ability surpasses even the best of the best giving him the ability to enchant his gear with a +11 total instead of the +10 cap. I mainly gave this ability to make him different from a rich Fighter and to also make it worthwhile to actually take full levels in this class.

Extra shizzle, mechanical and RP-wise:

-The character is supposed to be an upgraded Fighter. We all know that Casters are better because they have many tools and can adapt to all situations. What I'm trying to do here is to make a Fighter that can at least adapt his gear into different battle situations. This is why I've given him the ability to change his gear's properties DURING battle i.e he can swap enchants using up his round actions. For now i've given him a Standard action for each enchant change but I'm thinking of adding an extra special ability that decreases the time required (see below). For example, you happen to be fighting a ghost out of nowhere? Change your +1 Keen Bastard sword into a +1 Ghost Touch and hack away!

-RP wise the Enchantrixes are an order of Fighters that have acknowledged the many benefits of Magic and even though they remain true Men instead of boys in robes they have learned to use it in order to increase their battle potential. The way they do this is by training rigorously into the crafting of magical weapons. Arcane sight becomes like second nature to them and they can understand every item's aura perfectly. Also, the way their enchanting works is via specially crafted gear that contains an extremely rare crystal that acts as a medium for them to imbue their power into. These items are called "Enchantable".

How Enchantable gear affects the class:
1. Every Enchantrix begins with an enchantable Weapon, Armor and Shield of his choice.
2. He can only imbue THOSE weapons. Not normal, not masterwork or anything else.
3. RP-wise what he does is actually funnel his magical power through the crystals inside the weapon or armor, giving it its properties.
4. For the reason stated above, if the weapon or armor loses contact with the Enchantrix, it also loses all of its power 1 round after (this allows him to imbue missiles and throwable items).
5. If the Enchantable gear is lost, the Enchantrix has to craft a new piece (he gets this ability from lvl 1). Every piece takes one day of crafting and requires the special crystals.
6. The duration of the enchants is unlimited as long as the Enchantrix touches the item. If it is lost, the enchant has to be reapplied.
7. The Enchantrix CAN use another Enchantrix's Enchantable items


Additional stuff I was considering:

-Preparing enchants per day just as a wizard does, or at least have a maximum number of enchants he can use per day like a sorcerer. At the moment I've given him the ability to use his enchants unlimited times per day.

-As he gains more levels, give him faster and faster enchanting. For example start with full round action, then make it standard, then move, then swift, then immediate. If this is done, should he be able to use his different actions to change enchants many times in battle? For example he could use a swift action to change his shield enchant, move action to change his armor's and standard to change his weapons, giving him a totally new set of gear. The +X enhancement enchants will not work with this and will always have the standard 1 hour/enhancement bonus imbuing time.

-If he doesn't learn all the appropriate level enchants instantly when he gains access to them, how many should he learn? If I've calculated correctly there are:
37 armor enchants
31 shield enchants
27 weapon enchants





If I've posted this in the wrong section please move it to where it is appropriate.
What I'm looking for here is feedback and general comments on the class. I mainly made this for fun but I'm starting to like the concept and if we could polish it a bit I would like to try persuading my DM into letting me play this. Also it would be cool if other people playtest this class :)
If something like this has been posted before, too bad for me although I doubt it is going to be the same.

Venusaur
2012-12-23, 08:14 PM
For future reference, this would go in the Homebrew section.

I'm not too great at judging balance, but this seems like an upgrade to standard fighter, but weaker than Tome of Battle. I would compare it to the Kensai PrC for a fighter type with enchanting power.

docnessuno
2012-12-23, 08:31 PM
While i do like the concept, it doesn't seem such a big upgrade over a fighter. You give up 6 bonus feats to save about 300K WBL by level 20 and gain some versatility. It looks like a decent 5 level dip, to gain a bane enchant you can switch around.

jokeaccount
2012-12-23, 08:43 PM
You are right my goal was to make it better than the original Fighter but less powerful than ToB classes (many groups don't allow ToB to begin with).

The problem with the Fighter is that the sheer amount of feats he gets can become redundant/uninteresting. TWF chain, Wep. Focus chain, all of those just to get some +X to attack and dmg = boring. And remember, it is not just 300k gold. You might as well consider yourself having every single combination of weapon available to the game and more. You can run around with a +5 vorpal sword and instantly switch to something else when for example an ooze appears. Same for your armor. Also remember that you can add even more enchants from other sourcebooks.

rweird
2012-12-24, 10:12 AM
Does the enchantment only affect one item, or all items?

Urpriest
2012-12-24, 04:00 PM
Perhaps an explanation would clarify things: what is supposed to be the difference between this and the Soulknife, rules-conceptually speaking?

Namfuak
2012-12-24, 04:17 PM
Might I offer that he should gain Craft Wonderous Item, Craft Magical Arms and Armor, and perhaps Forge Ring as bonus feats by level 10 or so?

Also, perhaps rather than limiting him to only being able to enchant a weapon, armor, and shield, maybe he can have three items "enchantable" at a time. So, for example, if I wanted to be a dual-wield Enchantrix I would choose two weapons and my armor, or for an archer I might take ammunition, bow, and armor.

rweird
2012-12-24, 04:22 PM
Perhaps an explanation would clarify things: what is supposed to be the difference between this and the Soulknife, rules-conceptually speaking?

I think that it is this can change the enchantments (he could have a bunch of daggers and throw them, and make them all vorpal, without wasting at least 36k per), and at 20th level, can get a few epic enchantments (dread is a good one). Also it can change the enchantments, like getting bane (evil outsiders), holy, Axiomatic when fighting a balor (counts as +7 +6d6 damage to the balor), and then make it a bane [magical beast], dancing weapon, and a bane keen, shocking burst, flaming weapon when fighting the tarrasque. Still, it isn't the best class.

I think it being able to break caps more, and gaining enchantments earlier (ending up with +6 or higher for everything) might make it better, make legendary enchanter maybe should mean that he can enchant others weapons and stuff as well, or can change enhancement bonuses to weapon abilities (instead of having a +6 weapon with +6 of weapon properties, it is a +1 weapon with +11 of weapon properties)

Urpriest
2012-12-24, 04:25 PM
I think that it is this can change the enchantments (he could have a bunch of daggers and throw them, and make them all vorpal, without wasting at least 36k per), and at 20th level, can get a few epic enchantments (dread is a good one). Also it can change the enchantments, like getting bane (evil outsiders), holy, Axiomatic when fighting a balor (counts as +7 +6d6 damage to the balor), and then make it a bane [magical beast], dancing weapon, and a bane keen, shocking burst, flaming weapon when fighting the tarrasque. Still, it isn't the best class.

I think it being able to break caps more, and gaining enchantments earlier (ending up with +6 or higher for everything) might make it better, make legendary enchanter maybe should mean that he can enchant others weapons and stuff as well, or can change enhancement bonuses to weapon abilities (instead of having a +6 weapon with +6 of weapon properties, it is a +1 weapon with +11 of weapon properties)

See, all of those sound like abilities that should be given to an improved Soulknife, not an improved Fighter.

rweird
2012-12-24, 04:34 PM
See, all of those sound like abilities that should be given to an improved Soulknife, not an improved Fighter.

Ah, that is what you mean, I kind of agree, though this is more magic than psionic, still, it probably would be better as a soulknife fix, and some alternate class features can make it arcane, possibly something to make it divine instead too.

jokeaccount
2012-12-25, 08:31 AM
Does the enchantment only affect one item, or all items?

As mentioned enchants are like spells to the Enchantrix which means that he can enchant as many items as he can hold. If you play a race with 6 hands he can carry 6 +5 vorpal swords for example



Perhaps an explanation would clarify things: what is supposed to be the difference between this and the Soulknife, rules-conceptually speaking?

Conceptually speaking probably 0 difference. I did not remember that Soulknives can enchant their weapon, I thought they could only enhance it to +X on attack and dmg rolls. There are many mechanical differences with this class however:

-Can enchant weapons and armor
-Can do it in the midst of battle whereas the soulknife requires 8 hours of meditation to change enchants
-Gets all enchant levels not just +3 enchants
-Can choose from a way bigger pool of enchants to learn whereas the soulknife's is pretty limited
-Can enchant ANY kind of weapon not just his Mind Blade
-Has good bab and the saves that matter
-Gets half fighter feats which are a must in order to build a good melee damage dealer




Might I offer that he should gain Craft Wonderous Item, Craft Magical Arms and Armor, and perhaps Forge Ring as bonus feats by level 10 or so?

Also, perhaps rather than limiting him to only being able to enchant a weapon, armor, and shield, maybe he can have three items "enchantable" at a time. So, for example, if I wanted to be a dual-wield Enchantrix I would choose two weapons and my armor, or for an archer I might take ammunition, bow, and armor.

I thought about the Craft feats but I didn't want to give him a lot of free stuff. I have already given him the ability to craft the special "Enchantable" gear. I guess you could say that he can craft any kind of normal equipment but make it "Enchantable" as a bonus. Conceptually he should be able to Craft Magical equipment (since this is part of his training) but I don't know if it goes over the line on free feats. Something to discuss i guess :).

About the 3 enchants limit, I've already answered to that at the beginning of this post :)

I also thought about letting him enchant other gear like rings, amulets, bracers etc. but it seemed that it becomes easily a broken ability. Since most of these pieces of gear usually have spells or +X to skill as enchants (except the +X to AC part) isn't it OP for him to switch his boots from Flying to Freedom of Movement to Expeditious retreat or w/e? He becomes like an artificer or something :p




I think it being able to break caps more, and gaining enchantments earlier (ending up with +6 or higher for everything) might make it better, make legendary enchanter maybe should mean that he can enchant others weapons and stuff as well, or can change enhancement bonuses to weapon abilities (instead of having a +6 weapon with +6 of weapon properties, it is a +1 weapon with +11 of weapon properties)

I thought about giving him the ability to break caps etc but once again I was afraid of it becoming OP. I know it still is dog **** in front of a caster's power but then again, that was exactly my goal. Even though I don't like to use Tier systems, my goal with the Enchantrix was to make a Tier 4 Fighter instead of Tier 5. Something that every campaign uses but at make it better.



See, all of those sound like abilities that should be given to an improved Soulknife, not an improved Fighter.

We hates Psionics and ToB :D

rweird
2012-12-25, 09:08 AM
I think it might be tier 4-ish, it doesn't have to worry about not having the right weapon, though feats might limit it somewhat, it probably won't ever be like "I lost my sword, I'm useless."

I just realized something: It doesn't have skills or skill points listed

jokeaccount
2012-12-25, 01:14 PM
I think it might be tier 4-ish, it doesn't have to worry about not having the right weapon, though feats might limit it somewhat, it probably won't ever be like "I lost my sword, I'm useless."

I just realized something: It doesn't have skills or skill points listed

Ooops you are right. Did not think about skill points. Well my guess is he'll have an average amount like 4+int and probably add skills like Spellcraft and Concentration as class skills

rweird
2012-12-25, 01:52 PM
Ooops you are right. Did not think about skill points. Well my guess is he'll have an average amount like 4+int and probably add skills like Spellcraft and Concentration as class skills

I think knowledge arcana and use magic device as well. You should add the skills to the first post.

jokeaccount
2012-12-25, 04:02 PM
I think knowledge arcana and use magic device as well. You should add the skills to the first post.

Updates the first post with skill info. Would love some more feedback on the character's mechanics, especially on the fast enchanting ability and on the limited choice of Enchantable items. Should he also be able to Enchant rings, amulets, bracers, helmets etc?

docnessuno
2012-12-25, 04:19 PM
About enchanting other items: a big NO, unless you want the class to require more bookkeeping and to be more powerful than an artificer.

Also, i have been kinda inspired by this concept and i'm developing my own version of it (aiming for a mid-T3 power level and to fix some loopholes in your idea), if you want i can post it when i'm done.

jokeaccount
2012-12-25, 05:02 PM
Sure why not. Would love to see another aspect of this concept ;)

EDIT: Post the loopholes you've found in order for them to get fixed if possible!

docnessuno
2012-12-25, 05:07 PM
This is my shoot for a T3 class, it's obviously much more powerful than the fighter chassis it came from, but that's kinda obvious.

HP: d8
Skills: 4+int (Class skills: Appraise, Craft, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana) Profession, Ride, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device)

-Lvl-|-BAB-|-Fort-|-Ref-|-Will-|Special
1|+1|+2|+0|+2|Magical analysis, Eldritch artisan
2|+2|+3|+0|+3|Bonus feat, Superior training
3|+3|+3|+1|+3|Enchanting, Devensive enhancement +1
4|+4|+4|+1|+4|Magical analysis (Identify), Offensive enhancement +1
5|+5|+4|+1|+4|Bonus feat, Special ability +1
6|+6|+5|+2|+5|Enchanting (Full round), Devensive enhancement +2
7|+7|+5|+2|+5|Magical analysis (Arcane sight), Offensive enhancement +2
8|+8|+6|+2|+6|Bonus feat, Special ability +2
9|+9|+6|+3|+6|Enchanting (Standard), Devensive enhancement +3
10|+10|+7|+3|+7|Double enchant, Offensive enhancement +3
11|+11|+7|+3|+7|Bonus feat, Special ability +3
12|+12|+8|+4|+8|Enchanting (Move), Devensive enhancement +4
13|+13|+8|+4|+8|Magical analysis (Analyze dweomer), Offensive enhancement +4
14|+14|+9|+4|+9|Bonus feat, Special ability +4
15|+15|+9|+5|+9|Enchanting (Swift), Devensive enhancement +5
16|+16|+10|+5|+10|Magical analysis (Greater arcane sight), Offensive enhancement +5
17|+17|+10|+5|+10|Bonus feat, Special ability +5
18|+18|+11|+6|+11|Enchanting (Immediate), Defensive mastery
19|+19|+11|+6|+11|Magical analysis (3/day), Offensive mastery
20|+20|+12|+6|+12|Bonus feat, Enchanting supremacy

Magical analisys:
An Enchantrix can use Detect Magic at will as a spell-like ability. As his level increses he gains the use of additional spell-like abilities:
At 4th level he can use Identify 1/day
At 7th level he can use Arcane Sight 1/day
At 13th level he can use Analyze dweomer 1/day
At 16th level he can use Greater arcane sight 1/day
At 19th level he can use any of those spell-like abilities 3/day (Detect magic remains at will).

Eldritch artisan:
For the purpose of meeting items and feat prerequisites, an Enchantrix has an effective caster level equal to his class level.
When utilizing craft magical arms and armors, he can also ignore any spell needed in the crafting process.

Bonus feat:
At 2nd level and every 3 levels thereafter an Enchantrix gains a bonus feat that must be selected from fighter bonus feats or item creation feats. The character must still meet all the prerequisites of the selected feat.

Superior training:
An Enchantrix qualifies for feats that usually require a minimum number of fighter levels as if he had a fighter level equal to half his Enchantrix level. Those effective fighter levels stack with any actual fighter levels he may have.

Enchanting:
With one minute of training and concentration, a 3nd level Enchantrix can imbue a suit of armor, shield or weapon with a spark of magic. The enchanted item is now treated as a magic item for all purposes, and any weapon so enchanted can bypass damage reduction X/magic even if it doesn't posses any enhancement bonus.
Only normal or masterwork nonmagical items can be enchanted, and the enchantment lasts as long as the items remains in the possession of the character and for 1 round afterwards.
The magical power that sustain the enchantments is limited, and an Enchantrix is unable to sustain more than one defensive item (shield or suit of armor) and one offensive item (weapon or set of 50 ammunitions). If the character tries to enchant a second item of the same category, all enchantment-related effects of the first one immediatly fade.
An enchanted item is considered to have a caster level equal to the Enchantrix's class level, and a characrer can always enchant an item wich is considered as a magic item by virtue of this class feature.

Defensive enchants:
At 3rd level when any suit of armor or shield is enchanted by the character, it acquires a +1 enhancement bonus. This bonus improves by 1 for every three class levels, up to a maximum of +5 at 15th level.

Offensive enchants:
At 4th level when any weapon (or set of ammunition) is enchanted by the character, it acquires a +1 enhancement bonus. This bonus improves by 1 for every three class levels, up to a maximum of +5 at 16th level.

Special ability:
At 5th level, when any suit of armor, shield, weapon or set of ammunition is enchanted by the character, it can be imbued with one or more special abilities appropriate for the item's type. When this feature is first acquired only special abilities equivalent to a +1 bonus can be selected, and any enchanted item can only hold special abilities with a total modifier equivalent to a +1 bonus. For every three class levels, both the maximum bonus that a single ability ca have, as well as the total modifier that imbued abilities can reach, increases by 1, up to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. Any propriety with a limited number of uses cannot be selected with this feature.

Double enchant:
At 10th level an Enchantrix learns how to sustain more than a single devensive and/or offensive enchanced item at the same time.
By lowering his effective class level by 3 for the purposes of adjucating the proprieties of both items, he can sustain two items of the same kind (offensive or defensive) at the same time. Enchanting or altering both items only takes a single action (depending on the Enchantrix's level), and the character must alter both to conform to the reduced bonuses.
Applying this feature to offensive and defensive items works independently. If the character enchants a shield and a suit of armor, the proprieties of both items will be adjucated as if he was 3 levels lower, but any weapons he might have enchanted would be unaffected.
The class features affected by Double enchant are: Defensive enchants, Offensive enchants, Special ability, Defensive mastery and Offensive mastery.

Defensive mastery
At 18th level, while any suit of armor or shield is enchanted by the character, it gains an additional +1 untyped bonus to AC, and it's able to hold an additional +1 equivalent bonus of special abilities.

Offensive mastery
At 19th level, while any weapon (or set of ammunition) is enchanted by the character, it gains an additional +1 untyped bonus to hit and damage rolls made with it, and it's able to hold an additional +1 equivalent bonus of special abilities.

Enchanting supremacy
At 20th level, the ability of an Enchantrix to manipulate the energy of weapons and armors has reached such heights that items he enchants show a degree of resiliency similar to a true artifact. The enchanted items cannot be sundered or dispelled, and are treated by spell such as Antimagic field and Mage's Disjunction as artifacts.

jokeaccount
2012-12-25, 06:06 PM
Just finished reading this. Really concise and much more detailed on the descriptions (had not even thought of item caster levels -_-), your experience shows. Magical analysis was really cool idea gives even more flavor to the concept. On the power scale though, except if I misinterpret something (english not my native language) I don't see why this build is stronger than the previous one? The differences I've spotted are:

With the Defensive/Offensive mastery you can reach a +6 enhancement and +6 on magical properties. However you limit the item by separating those 2. On the original build you can for example have a +1 Brilliant Energy Vorpal sword whereas on this one isn't the character obliged to go with the maximum enhancement thus limiting the maximum special ability modifier?

The Enchanting Supremacy is obviously superior to Legendary Enchanter since its effects are incorporated to the Master features and I also like the flavor :). Gives a unique feel.

Gets 7 bonus feats instead of 5 (nice catch on the Fighter level requirement for those).

Has limited number of Enchanted items he can wield and has to lower his class level by 3. This one I feel reduces the class's power compared to the original no? At level 20 you essentially lose the Mastery and Supremacy features for your equipment but at lower levels you miss on higher level enchants.


All in all I like yours better in terms of structure (feels more professional :P), but I'd like a clarification on why this build is 1 whole tier higher :D

docnessuno
2012-12-25, 06:51 PM
Well i din't consider you actually did incorporate the reduced activation time for enchanting (swift action armor/weapon proprieties are VERY strong, immediate action ones are just amazing).
Your legendary enchanter perk comes earlier in my version and is a tad stronger (but i had to resort to "unnamed bonuses", wich is inelegant, just to avoid +6 weapons bypassing epic DR)
Enchanting supremacy is a quite powerful capstone.
2 bonus feats and the possibility to select fighter bonus feats is not that great, but helps, as does the chence to use item creation feats.
Your build didn't have an option for dual-wielding characters (or to enchant a bow and a stack of arrows), unless i missed it.
And finally, Double enchant at lvl 20 just strips you of the "mastery", but enchanting supremacy remains active.
About the tier, i think your build would fit T3 as well, if we consider swift / immediate enchanting.
I also removed the possibility to select proprietis with limited uses for enchanted items, wich is a nerf but a needed one imho.

rweird
2012-12-25, 08:37 PM
Just make it +6 so it can overcome epic DR, it is a fighter class basically, wizards throw SoDs/SoLs like it there's no tomorrow, this class should be able to do an extra ~15 damage to select monsters.

Vaynor
2012-12-26, 06:07 PM
The Red Towel: Moved to Homebrew Design.

jokeaccount
2012-12-27, 05:17 PM
I don't get the red towel thing but thanks for moving it to the appropriate section

Vaynor
2012-12-29, 07:25 AM
It's my mod name, for when I speak with the voice of Mod. It's a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference.