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Lateral
2012-12-23, 10:24 PM
Is there anything floating around the forums that might give me some ideas on how to put together a campaign setting? I could really use a reference for what kinds of things to cover, how to put together a setting so that everything makes sense together and doesn't create any major problems, and that kind of thing. I've been looking at Rich's The New World (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/YPgbz2j3PckGjjviJU5.html) articles, and that's been helpful, but it would be nice to have other sources- those articles focus pretty heavily on the choices made in that campaign setting, so I could really use something that gives more generally applicable advice.

Fhaolan
2012-12-23, 10:46 PM
2nd edition AD&D had a few; 'Campaign Sourcebook and Catacomb Guide', and 'World Builder's Guidebook'. The first is... a bit light and spends more time on running the game rather than building the campaign setting. The second is probably more like what you're interested in.

There's an interesting game called 'Dawn of Worlds' that I've messed around with. The premise is that all the players contribute to building the campaign world using a set of rules. You end up with some pretty fascinating stuff at the end. It's a free download: http://www.clanwebsite.org/games/rpg/Dawn_of_Worlds_game_1_0Final.pdf

Edge of Dreams
2012-12-24, 12:39 AM
A lot of what matters in a campaign setting is going to flow from a very simple question...

What kind of games do I want to run in this setting?

For example, the Dresden Files RPG, an urban fantasy game, has a collaborative system where players and GM work together to design the setting for their personal campaign centered around a single major city (could be Chicago, Boston, LA, London, or whatever city your group happens to like or be familiar with. The process defines important locations in the city, major NPCs associated with those locations, which factions (both mortal and supernatural) are present and interested in the city, what themes are relevant to the history and citizens of the city, and what threats to life as we know it lurk in the background.

Those are the things that matter for an urban fantasy game where the players are expected to spend most of their time in that one city, dealing with mysteries, monsters, magic, and supernatural politics. But if you want to run a campaign specifically about a group that travels from city to city, or set in a different era from the modern world, or that revolves around the NeverNever (the hidden world of faeries and other such creatures), you're going to have to adjust how you approach setting building.

It's easy to start building a setting starting from some cool gimmick or one-off idea, but that often leads to a world where the kinds of adventures you want to have don't totally make sense. Why write out the relationships of 20 different nations and species if you expect the players to be humans and never leave the country they start in? Why take the time to write up tons of nobles and rich people who all have fascinating intrigues (complete with assassinations, coups, dalliances, and so on), if the players are expected to be dirt-poor commoners or explorers who spend all their time in dungeons and forests?

TheThan
2012-12-24, 01:06 AM
There’s a lot of different ways to write out a campaign setting. I’m going to assume your creating a setting from scratch. This is what I call the “top down” approach.

What I usually do is take a “top down” approach. I draw out a world, oceans, continents, mountains, rivers, forests, deserts etc. When I’m satisfied with that, I then start populating it. I start making nations and placing them in the setting.

Now when I work on creation nations, I usually use a “7 point approach”. I have seven important aspects that define a nation, I fill these in and poof I have a nation. These are geography, economy, government, political relations, military, history and culture. the key is to brainstorm these 7 points, put in as much information as you can. if you leave something out or come up with something cool later, you can fill it in later, or use it for another nation.

The Than's 7 point approach on How to build a nation:

Geography:
This details where the nation is located, what sort of geography it enjoys and the location of most of its’ main cites.

Economy:
Obviously this details how the nation makes its money. Detail out trade, what do they import and export, what sort of taxes and tariffs do they have, what cities are it’s main trading hubs, that sort of stuff.

Government:
What sort of government does it use? Who are the important people in charge? What are some of it’s more prominent policies? How often does the government change? Don’t be afaid to borrow from real world governments if you get stuck (Wikipedia is a good source for basic info). this is also a great place to lay down a basic law system. after all governments can't exist without the rule of law (even if that's the whim of the king).

Political relations:
This can be fit into government, but I keep it separate so I can find the information faster. This is where you put down how this government interacts with its neighbors. Are they at war with anyone, if so why? Does the queen hold a grudge against that nation’s prince because he called her a bloated warthog? Who are their rivals, and why? This should form a web of relationships. Information on one country should reflect what you wrote about it’s relationship with another country. It might be from a different perspective, but the information should be the same.

Military:
This is where you get to build armies. What sort of military units does this country utilize, how does it get it’s forces. What level of readiness do they stay at, how many soldiers can it bring to bear at one time, how many standing armies does it maintain? What about milita and mercenaries forces.

History:
This is where you get to create a history for your nation. How was it formed, who are it’s famous historical figures (Thomas Jefferson, Abe Lincoln, etc). how many major wars did it fight it, how old is this nation etc.

culture:
How are people expected to act. what sort of cultural taboos exist. how do people greet each other, how does the wealthy treat the poor and the middle class, what makes one nation different from another? what role to women play? are you basing culture off of real world cultures or are you completely making it up? what sort of religions exist, how religious is the majority of the population. how much influence does the church(es) have over the nation?



Afterward I start filling in the blanks, why does nobody claim that forest as part of their domain? I also take the time to fill in the detail of the map, marking in cities, towns, other locations of interest (ruins, castles/forts etc).
You can have a pretty solid campaign world in a fairly short period of time. You can be as random as you like, or you can be as deliberate as you like, it’s really all up to the person creating the project.

As Fhaolan suggests, Dawn of worlds, is a good way of starting this process.

Granted, you'll actually need to have a campaign prepared to place into your world so you can actually play. unless your going to run a sandbox game.

Lateral
2012-12-24, 01:41 AM
It's easy to start building a setting starting from some cool gimmick or one-off idea, but that often leads to a world where the kinds of adventures you want to have don't totally make sense. Why write out the relationships of 20 different nations and species if you expect the players to be humans and never leave the country they start in? Why take the time to write up tons of nobles and rich people who all have fascinating intrigues (complete with assassinations, coups, dalliances, and so on), if the players are expected to be dirt-poor commoners or explorers who spend all their time in dungeons and forests?
Hmm. Any advice on how to avoid that problem? The setting I'm designing is based on a pretty gimmicky concept, that an apocalypse event led to the creation of a sizable undead empire over the recent (~100 year) past, but I was hoping to more explore the sociopolitical ramifications than just doing a standard zombie apocalypse- wights are as intelligent as humans, and I've never really seen anything that really looks at the ramifications of intelligent spawning undead. I also kind of figured that I'd be taking some elements from the European Theatre of World War II and some elements from the Cold War (although seeing as that borders on Real-World Politics, let's avoid discussing those), and maybe looking at some environmental fallout from the apocalypse event.


There’s a lot of different ways to write out a campaign setting. I’m going to assume your creating a setting from scratch. This is what I call the “top down” approach.

What I usually do is take a “top down” approach. I draw out a world, oceans, continents, mountains, rivers, forests, deserts etc. When I’m satisfied with that, I then start populating it. I start making nations and placing them in the setting.

Now when I work on creation nations, I usually use a “7 point approach”. I have seven important aspects that define a nation, I fill these in and poof I have a nation. These are geography, economy, government, political relations, military, history and culture. the key is to brainstorm these 7 points, put in as much information as you can. if you leave something out or come up with something cool later, you can fill it in later, or use it for another nation.

The Than's 7 point approach on How to build a nation:

Geography:
This details where the nation is located, what sort of geography it enjoys and the location of most of its’ main cites.

Economy:
Obviously this details how the nation makes its money. Detail out trade, what do they import and export, what sort of taxes and tariffs do they have, what cities are it’s main trading hubs, that sort of stuff.

Government:
What sort of government does it use? Who are the important people in charge? What are some of it’s more prominent policies? How often does the government change? Don’t be afaid to borrow from real world governments if you get stuck (Wikipedia is a good source for basic info). this is also a great place to lay down a basic law system. after all governments can't exist without the rule of law (even if that's the whim of the king).

Political relations:
This can be fit into government, but I keep it separate so I can find the information faster. This is where you put down how this government interacts with its neighbors. Are they at war with anyone, if so why? Does the queen hold a grudge against that nation’s prince because he called her a bloated warthog? Who are their rivals, and why? This should form a web of relationships. Information on one country should reflect what you wrote about it’s relationship with another country. It might be from a different perspective, but the information should be the same.

Military:
This is where you get to build armies. What sort of military units does this country utilize, how does it get it’s forces. What level of readiness do they stay at, how many soldiers can it bring to bear at one time, how many standing armies does it maintain? What about milita and mercenaries forces.

History:
This is where you get to create a history for your nation. How was it formed, who are it’s famous historical figures (Thomas Jefferson, Abe Lincoln, etc). how many major wars did it fight it, how old is this nation etc.

culture:
How are people expected to act. what sort of cultural taboos exist. how do people greet each other, how does the wealthy treat the poor and the middle class, what makes one nation different from another? what role to women play? are you basing culture off of real world cultures or are you completely making it up? what sort of religions exist, how religious is the majority of the population. how much influence does the church(es) have over the nation?



Afterward I start filling in the blanks, why does nobody claim that forest as part of their domain? I also take the time to fill in the detail of the map, marking in cities, towns, other locations of interest (ruins, castles/forts etc).
You can have a pretty solid campaign world in a fairly short period of time. You can be as random as you like, or you can be as deliberate as you like, it’s really all up to the person creating the project.

As Fhaolan suggests, Dawn of worlds, is a good way of starting this process.

Granted, you'll actually need to have a campaign prepared to place into your world so you can actually play. unless your going to run a sandbox game.
This is all good stuff.

Also, on a related note, does anybody know any online world map creators I could use? Much of the geopolitical landscape of the setting would have to derive from that.

Chilingsworth
2012-12-24, 03:00 AM
Hmm. Any advice on how to avoid that problem? The setting I'm designing is based on a pretty gimmicky concept, that an apocalypse event led to the creation of a sizable undead empire over the recent (~100 year) past, but I was hoping to more explore the sociopolitical ramifications than just doing a standard zombie apocalypse- wights are as intelligent as humans, and I've never really seen anything that really looks at the ramifications of intelligent spawning undead. I also kind of figured that I'd be taking some elements from the European Theatre of World War II and some elements from the Cold War (although seeing as that borders on Real-World Politics, let's avoid discussing those), and maybe looking at some environmental fallout from the apocalypse event.


This is all good stuff.

Also, on a related note, does anybody know any online world map creators I could use? Much of the geopolitical landscape of the setting would have to derive from that.

Well, you might want to take a look at the Ghostwalk campaign setting (if you can find a copy.) It has an undead nation. Granted, it's assumed to be an antagonist nation, but the setting does have some info on them.

Edge of Dreams
2012-12-24, 04:28 AM
Hmm. Any advice on how to avoid that problem?

Keep asking yourself as you develop the setting, "If I was a player, not the GM, why would I care about this detail?"

For example, let's say the ruler of a certain nation is a Lich, but most of the populace doesn't know that. He's a bit of a tyrant, but not enough for there to be a rebellion.

Why does the player care? It's possible the player doesn't know and will never find out, and won't make much sense of any indirect effects.

Now, take that same Lich ruler, but he's instituted a law that Clerics channeling positive energy are to be executed on sight (because positive energy is so anti-undead). Suddenly, the player cares - healing spells are harder to come by, most clerics will be neutral or evil, different religions will dominate, and so on.

NotScaryBats
2012-12-24, 05:04 AM
I think you either write a setting to be like Eberron, and published and used by lots of people, or writing a setting for yourself and your campaign. In the latter case, you don't need to fully flesh out these things that will likely not be explored, and very broad strokes of 'this empire, ruled by this guy, does this sort of thing' are sufficient.

There are several undead cities that have cropped up in various different works. At least one Dragon Magazine has an article about such a thing.

Remember that vampires are intelligent, spawning undead, and are very prevalent in popular fiction. Are your wights predators, who must feed to survive, or are they 'clean' undead that don't need to feed? This will determine a lot of their culture and requirements (farms of creatures to feed off, laws for creation of spawn, etc).

Look at the Camarilla in World of Darkness -- it is a worldwide vampire society with strict laws, run by city-wide governments. While it works in the shadows, many of the points it brings up are good things to consider.

NichG
2012-12-24, 06:27 AM
For the last four campaigns I've run I've made distinct settings, so I'm kind of surprised I don't really have a system to it or anything like that. In retrospect though, I can say that the most important elements of the setting design were those things that were there to encourage the players to change them, and those things that were the initial causes of whatever sets the game in motion. E.g. 'big evil empire' is important because its very existence will make the players say "I want to go and destroy that thing"; so is 'magic-less land to the east' because the players will want to go and exploit the fact they have magic and introduce it and so on. But 'very stable and happy kingdom' doesn't really draw the players in (I guess excepting an evulz-style campaign where its just the mirror-version of big evil empire).

Similarly, if there's a place that was responsible for all the random elder evils that were sealed up and are now getting free, its a bit important to keep it in mind because the players will want to know 'hey, how did they seal them anyhow, and why couldn't they just kill them?'. Possibly important as well is where those elder evils actually came from, and why they're going after the world. These causes are likely to either be directly investigated by players, or failing that will be necessary for DM internal consistency.

Generally speaking I guess I try to have an overarching theme that establishes the cosmology, and then the details of the world are usually mostly there to have concrete things to interact with - I don't elaborate too deeply unless it ties in with the theme, the general plot, or things needed for character generation and the like.

Yora
2012-12-24, 09:14 AM
I recommend our Playgrounders Guide to Worldbuilding: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227507

Zombimode
2012-12-24, 09:33 AM
Keep asking yourself as you develop the setting, "If I was a player, not the GM, why would I care about this detail?"

I hate to disagree, but I really dont't think that this is a useful principle for setting desing.

My argument is as follows:
As a DM "improvising" works best when you know your setting, that is a) you have a sufficient ammount of predefined data and b) you have a "feeling" for your setting.
How can you satisfy both requirements? By making stuff up. Think about histories, current social problems, random details, the life of everyday people... The goal is to "pre-create" stuff you can use during sessions and to get to know your setting better. Always questioning "why would a player care about this" is just limiting your creativity. In most cases you can never know when or how a specific detail comes into play. Also, players (well, many of them at least) do not care about world building. But you, the DM, do. This alone justifies different questions.

I think my advice for world building is this: try to develop and play out typical scenarios you think are important for your setting.
For example: say orc raids are at least a secondary topic for your setting.
Imagine how such a raid would come to life from the orcs perspective: what are the reasons for the raids, how are they stuctured, and so on. Most of these questions will form themselves if you just try to imagine the situation. Thats the great thing about creativity: you can always surprise yourself!
Then try to imagine the raid from the victims perspective: ie. picture a mother during a raid how she tries to rescue her children and to escape the village. Will you ever mention or use this character during a session? Maybe, but probably not. But by imagining such sittuations you will learn much about your setting.

Or lets take your example of the undead nation. Is there any trade between the undeads and the living? If so, try to imagine a typical trade situation.
Try not to focus on what the PCs will probably doing. Typically the actions of an adventuring party are not sufficient to constitute the reality of the game world: the PCs do not care for agricultura, trade, seafaring, local and gobal politics etc, at least all at once. But those are the constituents of the setting at large. Thats why it is important for the DM to have some clues about those topics.

Lateral
2012-12-24, 12:05 PM
I recommend our Playgrounders Guide to Worldbuilding: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227507
That is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for, thanks.


Or lets take your example of the undead nation. Is there any trade between the undeads and the living? If so, try to imagine a typical trade situation.
That's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to explore. Wights are Always Lawful Evil, but that doesn't mean that they have to always attempt conquest.

TheThan
2012-12-24, 05:53 PM
Another popular method is what I call the “zoom out” approach.
In this method, the DM starts by building a small area, such as a town or other “starting” location. From there he begins to detail out the world, ever expanding outward in a circle (or a single direction); filling in the blank parts of his map as he goes.

For example The DM might start with a town. He draws out the layout of the town, populates it with a few NPCs then starts putting in quest givers, the shady guy in the corner of the tavern, that sort of stuff.

Then he expands out in an ever expanding circle. He details the bridge to the west that crosses a river, the haunted forest to the north, and the old ruins to the east. He then expands out further, detailing what lies on the other side of the bridge, what’s beyond the haunted forest, where the river flows from, etc.

As he continues, the scope of his world grows, and gets larger as he “zooms out”. He can even do this while his players play his campaign, expanding and zooming out as the pcs begin to explore beyond the boundaries of their starting location. It’s as good way of focusing on small detail.
Although I’m constantly being asked (and having people make knowledge rolls) about information beyond the current scope of the campaign. So I don’t use this method very much, as its much more advantageous to me to use the “top down” approach.

locutus
2012-12-26, 12:13 PM
Hmm. Any advice on how to avoid that problem? The setting I'm designing is based on a pretty gimmicky concept, that an apocalypse event led to the creation of a sizable undead empire over the recent (~100 year) past, but I was hoping to more explore the sociopolitical ramifications than just doing a standard zombie apocalypse- wights are as intelligent as humans, and I've never really seen anything that really looks at the ramifications of intelligent spawning undead. I also kind of figured that I'd be taking some elements from the European Theatre of World War II and some elements from the Cold War (although seeing as that borders on Real-World Politics, let's avoid discussing those), and maybe looking at some environmental fallout from the apocalypse event.


Just start making stuff up. Try to make the world fit together. For example: I wanted a sewer crawl game, and I also picked a real life location that I wanted to use. I loaded up google maps, traced it onto the graph paper, and started looking for ideas about what Sewer crawlers might do all day. This led to cults and monster problems, and a union of free undead, and also the bureaucratic union of sewer crawlers that dispatches the players and gives them handy quests. Maybe theres a tavern where they all hang out, and maybe they have an entrance to the sewers in the tavern.

Well, a couple weeks later I've got an entire nobility to interact with the plumbers union, each with thier own motives, resources, and relationships. I have nearby seafaring and lakefaring nations, and ancient civilizations going back to the dawn of time. I've got excel spreadsheets with data on crop rotations and fuedal yields and peasant yields, and how fat or numerous peasants are in various counties, and who owns what manor, and what level tehy are, and who owes fealty in what direction....

Just try to fit the game together. The players basically rejected the Sewer crawler job. They then tried to be pirates, which turned out to be harder than expected. Now they seem to like being Ronin-Archaeologists for the Countess who is about to start the industrial revolution. All this affects

A) what parts of the world I add detail to next. In this case, they crawled to the north shore of Miklvatn, a big lake, and are investigating some ruins there. While they were on thier way, I detailed those ruins and assigned manors to various subordinates of the Countess.
B) How they find out about and interact with the impending volcanic doom and the goblin empire next door.

I realize that this is long and rambling, but I think worldbuilding is long and rambling. As long as what the players find now is consistent with what they found before, it doesn't matter if fiefs get renamed and history gets rewritten. I becomes concrete when they come across it.