RP question Dominate Person spell (v3.5)

[Abyric]

Hi!

Me and my party were wondering what the roleplaying effects were of a "Dominate Person" spell, since the player handguide doesn't mention it in detail.

What I'm trying to find out is whether

1)the dominated person knows who's the dominator
2) how he's experiencing the spell
3) and how he would react after the spell ends.

Thank you!

[Feralventas]

Hi!

Me and my party were wondering what the roleplaying effects were of a "Dominate Person" spell, since the player handguide doesn't mention it in detail.

What I'm trying to find out is whether

1)the dominated person knows who's the dominator
2) how he's experiencing the spell
3) and how he would react after the spell ends.

Thank you!

1) They might know if they see the spell being cast in the first place, or if they can intuit that knowledge based on the orders they're given and how they're operating. For example, if Joe the Dominated Peasant knows that there's only one wizard in town, and that the wizard focuses in mind-magic, they might understand that there's a good chance the local mage has mind-controled them. Otherwise there's no reason to guess at that.
HOWEVER
the text also states that if you share a language, you can give more detailed commands, so if you're not careful when giving those orders, they might be carried by your own voice rather than simply conveying the words.

2) If you have read them, consider the Animorphs series villians, the Yerks. You see what you're doing, and you might try to do something mentally to shake off the effects, but that's all you can do. A dominated individual must act out the effects of the commander's orders before anything else except things that would impede self-preservation. That said, if you can Finish the task to the letter, you can probably act again. This means that if the domneer fails to immediately give orders to the contrary, the victim can very Easily make an effort to harm or prevent the caster from likewise taking an action; re-directing a spell to give an order is a move action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, but casting the spell takes up a standard action, so presuming no economy-of-action abuse by the caster, you'd have one round before the spell could accomplish anything. Be sure to take advantage of this.

3) How one reacts to the violation of their will and forced use by another individual depends partly on how the victim perceives themselves and their status in comparison to the offender, and how the offender treated the victim while they were controlled. Being dominated, but having been treated well, looked after, given a great deal and so forth might be benevolent to the offender, but if the victim decides that none of it is worth the way the offender went about it, retribution is still going to look appetizing, and that's under the Best possible circumstance. Some people may be okay with submitting to an other's will, but most do so with a measure of trust, not with any kind of involuntary aspect.

Though it should also be considered that a pair of friendly enchanters who do trust each other could Dominate each other in order to prevent domination by others. It would have to be a pretty tight bond. Any violation of that trust would likely earn one immediate enmity if not outright violence.

[Crake]

A dominated individual must act out the effects of the commander's orders before anything else except things that would impede self-preservation. That said, if you can Finish the task to the letter, you can probably act again. This means that if the domneer fails to immediately give orders to the contrary, the victim can very Easily make an effort to harm or prevent the caster from likewise taking an action; re-directing a spell to give an order is a move action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, but casting the spell takes up a standard action, so presuming no economy-of-action abuse by the caster, you'd have one round before the spell could accomplish anything. Be sure to take advantage of this.

A dominated victim cannot perform any actions except those required for day-to-day survival, such as eating and drinking, and those commands issued by the caster, so you don't get to act as you wish just because you completed your order. Also, you can give your initial command as part of the casting, as the text says "Changing your instructions or giving a dominated creature a new command is the equivalent of redirecting a spell, so it is a move action." So only commands after the first require a move action.


Though it should also be considered that a pair of friendly enchanters who do trust each other could Dominate each other in order to prevent domination by others. It would have to be a pretty tight bond. Any violation of that trust would likely earn one immediate enmity if not outright violence.

to this I say:


Sometimes magical effects that establish mental control render each other irrelevant, such as a spell that removes the subjects ability to act. Mental controls that don’t remove the recipient’s ability to act usually do not interfere with each other. If a creature is under the mental control of two or more creatures, it tends to obey each to the best of its ability, and to the extent of the control each effect allows. If the controlled creature receives conflicting orders simultaneously, the competing controllers must make opposed Charisma checks to determine which one the creature obeys.

[Abyric]

1) They might know if they see the spell being cast in the first place, or if they can intuit that knowledge based on the orders they're given and how they're operating. For example, if Joe the Dominated Peasant knows that there's only one wizard in town, and that the wizard focuses in mind-magic, they might understand that there's a good chance the local mage has mind-controled them. Otherwise there's no reason to guess at that.
HOWEVER
the text also states that if you share a language, you can give more detailed commands, so if you're not careful when giving those orders, they might be carried by your own voice rather than simply conveying the words.

2) If you have read them, consider the Animorphs series villians, the Yerks. You see what you're doing, and you might try to do something mentally to shake off the effects, but that's all you can do. A dominated individual must act out the effects of the commander's orders before anything else except things that would impede self-preservation. That said, if you can Finish the task to the letter, you can probably act again. This means that if the domneer fails to immediately give orders to the contrary, the victim can very Easily make an effort to harm or prevent the caster from likewise taking an action; re-directing a spell to give an order is a move action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, but casting the spell takes up a standard action, so presuming no economy-of-action abuse by the caster, you'd have one round before the spell could accomplish anything. Be sure to take advantage of this.

3) How one reacts to the violation of their will and forced use by another individual depends partly on how the victim perceives themselves and their status in comparison to the offender, and how the offender treated the victim while they were controlled. Being dominated, but having been treated well, looked after, given a great deal and so forth might be benevolent to the offender, but if the victim decides that none of it is worth the way the offender went about it, retribution is still going to look appetizing, and that's under the Best possible circumstance. Some people may be okay with submitting to an other's will, but most do so with a measure of trust, not with any kind of involuntary aspect.

Though it should also be considered that a pair of friendly enchanters who do trust each other could Dominate each other in order to prevent domination by others. It would have to be a pretty tight bond. Any violation of that trust would likely earn one immediate enmity if not outright violence.

Thanks for the long reply

1) Alright, so in regards to the target knowing who his dominator is; he has to either see you casting the spell or the situation would have to occur where it's highly probable that you casted the spell. Otherwise there would be no reason. For instance when casting the spell in combat, it's highly probable that the dominated would know while casting the spell when target is sleeping would not give him that knowledge. Correct?

2) So it's false to assume the dominated is under some kind of "mental haze" where he experiences everything as if he was sleep walking? He's perfectly well aware of what he's doing, he just cannot control an inside urge to fulfill his task? Would this also mean the attitude versus the dominator doesn't change? E.a. if dominated is hostile or unfriendly he stays this way unless having this attitude would compromise the dominator's order?

3)Perfectly clear.

In our quest we have just raided an encampment and their Bugbear leader got dominated by our sorcerer. Since the odds were overwhelming, the sorcerer made the bugbear leader order a cease-fire. Shortly afterwards he commanded the bugbear to tell the party some information and show his loot.

I'd guess this should all be brought back to a command such as "Protect us while giving us a very enjoyable, hospitable, lucrative and informative stay". When the effects of the spell would wear out though, he would know what he had done and take revenge? Or would it also be possible to "implant the idea" that it's been looted by someone else, given there's some forged evidence and the bugbear leader was not there when the looting happened?

[Abyric]

A dominated victim cannot perform any actions except those required for day-to-day survival, such as eating and drinking, and those commands issued by the caster, so you don't get to act as you wish just because you completed your order. Also, you can give your initial command as part of the casting, as the text says "Changing your instructions or giving a dominated creature a new command is the equivalent of redirecting a spell, so it is a move action." So only commands after the first require a move action.


Im in particular interested in the effects from a roleplay perspective (the game mechanics are of lesser importance compared to roleplay). Basically how I imagine your vision is that after the task is executed, the dominated person just hangs arround and doesn't do much actually.

Wouldn't a command such as "Act as you normally would but dont harm me" solve this?

[Slipperychicken]

Make yourself aware that it only takes a DC 15 Sense Motive check for observers to realize the Dominated creature is under magical influence. The Bugbears' minions would most likely have made this check if you remembered it.

Yes, the Dominated creature remains perfectly conscious through the duration of the spell, and remembers everything his body perceived. Dominate Person inflicts no "haze" or memory loss of any kind. The Dominated creature's attitude may be affected by the actions you made him perform, or from having Dominated him in the first place (I.e. outright rage for taking his stuff and making his team cease-fire), but Dominate Person most certainly does not make a character more friendly to you.

"Implanting an idea" is far beyond the scope of the Dominate Person spell -Only much more powerful magic can do that. He remembers everything, including exactly who you made him give the loot to, as well as everything he overheard, and will respond normally (I.e. hunt you down, and have his team buff with Protection from Evil before the fight).

[Abyric]

Make yourself aware that it only takes a DC 15 Sense Motive check for observers to realize the Dominated creature is under magical influence. The Bugbears' minions would most likely have made this check if you remembered it.

Yes, the Dominated creature remains perfectly conscious through the duration of the spell, and remembers everything his body perceived. Dominate Person inflicts no "haze" or memory loss of any kind. The Dominated creature's attitude may be affected by the actions you made him perform, or from having Dominated him in the first place (I.e. outright rage for taking his stuff and making his team cease-fire), but Dominate Person most certainly does not make a character more friendly to you.

"Implanting an idea" is far beyond the scope of the Dominate Person spell -Only much more powerful magic can do that. He remembers everything, including exactly who you made him give the loot to, as well as everything he overheard, and will respond normally (I.e. hunt you down, and have his team buff with Protection from Evil before the fight).

Thank you for clearing this up.
I'll be sure to pass this to the DM.

How can you be certain that the Bugbear would have made the DC15 check though? Or did you mean that they should've done the check regardless of their 25% chance?

[Toy Killer]

well... If one did, and couldn't convince the others what she thinks is going on, she has potential to be a reoccurring NPC. The classic Cassandra could insist that the leader has been mind controlled, to which the others may shrug off and think that she's calling their leader weak willed. The leader, refusing to admit he wasn't in control of his actions, has no reason to admit the intrusion and casts her out as a traitor for spreading lies about his ability to lead.

And that's when she takes a level or two in ranger with the Arcane hunter ACF (Whatever the ACF is that lets you take favored enemy in spell casters), and hunts down the Sorcerer that got her exiled.

[Slipperychicken]

Thank you for clearing this up.
I'll be sure to pass this to the DM.

How can you be certain that the Bugbear would have made the DC15 check though? Or did you mean that they should've done the check regardless of their 25% chance?

Every person who saw that Bugbear had, at the very least (assuming 0 ranks and 10 wis), a 25% chance to notice. If you guys were rolling it, they probably would have made it.