What is the d&d version of the afterlife

[about50heavies]

I am wondering what is the afterlife like in the d&d universe .

[PersonMan]

It depends on your setting and alignment.

In the default setting, Good people go to one of the Good afterlives and everything is wonderful for them, Neutral people go to...their afterlives, I'm not sure if there's really much information for those and Evil people go to the Evil afterlives, where they tend to be eaten/tortured until their minds break and they become mindless demons/devils.

Some people have alternate ideas, though, such as: the Abyss is not actually a bad place for a CE person - it's a place that makes sense.

[willpell]

In the typical D&D campaign world, you use the Cosmology described in the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide, which is detailed at much greater length in the Manual of the Planes (a 3.0 book, so the rules need a little finessing, but lists of destinations and creatures and such mean it's still worth having for a 3.5 campaign). The Cliff Notes version is that there are 17 Outer Planes - three Lawful, three Good, three Chaotic and three Evil, one each for LG, LE, CE and CG, and one for "Neutral" (though not "extremely neutral" for the most part; mostly that one gets used as a meeting place for the others rather than a headquarters for their mutual enemies). When most people die, their soul appears on a plane suiting their Alignment....so if you're LG you go to Heaven (aka Celestia), if you're LE you go to the Nine Hells, if you're CE you go to the Infinite Layers of the Abyss, and so on.

The corollary is that some people haunt the living world as Ghosts, become immortal through magical means, or clone themselves multiple times to cheat death. So not quite everyone goes to the various afterlives, but in general becoming a "Petitioner" on one of those planes is the default. Petitioners lose most of the abilities that they have in life, but you can still be resurrected and regain those powers. If not, you stay in that plane, enjoying yourself in the Heavens or being tortured in the Hells, possibly being drafted into an army to fight extraplanar battles either way, and eventually if nothing "kills" you again, you just sort of merge into the fabric of the plane once you can no longer remember your own identity. There are also the gods, who have demensnes on the Outer Planes and tend to call their worshippers to come serve them, though this varies a bit.

In worlds not based on the core cosmology, the answer may vary. Faerun for instance has its own set of such planes with specific destinations for atheists, and Eberron I believe has virtually no knowledge of the afterlife, so people there treat death little differently than in our reality. (Eberron fans correct me if I've got that wrong.)

[locutus]

willpell explained the standard pretty well. In my setting you wake up in the afterlife of your religion. For most people, these are the standard outer planes. theres a bunch of other things that managed to get themselves deified, however. I've got a Ancient White Wyrm living high in the mountains on a glacier who managed to get herself deified, and those who die in her worship are reborn with full knowledge of thier past lives as the white wyrmlings that skitter accross the ice. There are also a number of Buddhist monasteries form which monks are reincarnated as whatever in the prime material, sans memories.

I don't really like the alignment system, so I try and offer as many alternatives as possible.

[AuraTwilight]

Whatever you believe it to be, berk.

[GoddessSune]

Forgotten Realms(2E): A persons soul first ends up on a small demi plane where they wait. Each soul calls out to whatever god they worshiped in life. The more faithful the person, the louder their voice. The faithless, those that worshiped no god and the false, those that worshiped a false god, have no voices. Devils, servants of the god of the dead, gather anyone who has no voice. The Faithless are put in a wall like bricks and the False are given a horrible fate to match whatever false thing they believed in.

The faithful, meanwhile, are eventually gathered up by the god that they are calling out for. The souls end up in the gods realm. Souls forget most of their mortal life, except parts that relate to the gods sphere. Then they would do a related activity. So a worshiper of the god of knowledge might work in a library. Ultimately the soul hopes to merge and become part of their god.

[toapat]

I don't really like the alignment system, so I try and offer as many alternatives as possible.

Alignment in 3rd is pretty stupidly defined (at least Law and chaos being Chivalric Honor and its inverse), and at least 8 of the standard cosmology planes seem extraneous.

[willpell]

Each soul calls out to whatever god they worshiped in life. Atheists are screwed.

The faithful, meanwhile, are eventually gathered up by the god that they are calling out for. Ultimately the soul hopes to merge and become part of their god. So theists are also kind of screwed.

And this is why I will almost certainly never play Forgotten Realms.


and at least 8 of the standard cosmology planes seem extraneous.

They make more sense if you treat them as having a "lean" in the direction of the appropriate alignment. So Limbo is Chaos, a realm of pure elemental turbulence and mindless destruction; Ysgard is Chaos with a good "lean", a place of adventure and glory where spectacular danger exists for the benefit of bold heroes; and Pandemonium is Chaos with an Evil "lean", a plane of madness and isolation where there are no empires to be built or ruled, just havoc and cacophony to torment the denizens.

[tbok1992]

There's also Eberron, where all souls go to Dolruhh to slowly fade away and lose their memories and there very likely aren't any gods.

And there's 4e, where you are taken to the Shadowfell to be judged by the Goddess of Death and be sent either to the great unknown beyond or, if you've followed your god's teachings enough, sent to the Astral Sea (Read: Heaven) to be taken to your god's domain. More likely than not though you'll end up floating in space and kept out of said domain because things are kinda broken due to the Dawn War.

And there's Ghostwalk, which I'm pretty sure I'm the only one on this forum who knows or cares about, where the Afterlife is a real physical place, and the ghosts of the dead have to walk their asses on down there through this city, and you aren't really separated by morality when you get there.

Nobody Knows about Athas from Dark Sun's afterlife, but it is probably something painful and depressing, because everything involving life on Athas is Painful and depressing.

[willpell]

And there's Ghostwalk, which I'm pretty sure I'm the only one on this forum who knows or cares about

Nope! I just mentioned it on another thread myself. I don't play with the "the land of the dead is a physical location" part of it, but I do like the ghost template it offers and some other aspects (plus it has a neat little self-contained pantheon which contains one of my favorite Evil gods of all time, the unfortunately-named Phaant, goddess of misfortune - her fluff is hilarious). And it is one of the few settings I've ever seen where Dwarves have a raison d'etre beyond "live in a cave making weapons", and actually feel like a distinct race with their own supernatural niche in the world, just like the Elves have always had (perhaps this is just me, but I've always struggled to see Dwarves as anything other than short humans with prolonged lifespans who can see in the dark, while Elves seem adequately otherworldly in every presentation I've seen of them).


Nobody Knows about Athas from Dark Sun's afterlife, but it is probably something painful and depressing, because everything involving life on Athas is Painful and depressing.

See also: Warhammer 40K.

[Bogardan_Mage]

They make more sense if you treat them as having a "lean" in the direction of the appropriate alignment. So Limbo is Chaos, a realm of pure elemental turbulence and mindless destruction; Ysgard is Chaos with a good "lean", a place of adventure and glory where spectacular danger exists for the benefit of bold heroes; and Pandemonium is Chaos with an Evil "lean", a plane of madness and isolation where there are no empires to be built or ruled, just havoc and cacophony to torment the denizens.
Which is good in theory, but could probably have been implemented better. For example, the Chaotic Good have three choices of afterlife: a celestial forest, a different type of celestial forest, or an eternal battle. What, precisely, makes the Beastlands "Good with a chaotic lean" that differentiates it from "Chaotic and good in roughly equal parts" that is Arborea?

[Daer]

in FR afterlife of faithless isn't too great. (at least until 4e times. not sure what happens them after that.) they are used to build wall of faithless around city of judgment. and by used i mean as materials, not working force

[willpell]

Which is good in theory, but could probably have been implemented better. For example, the Chaotic Good have three choices of afterlife: a celestial forest, a different type of celestial forest, or an eternal battle. What, precisely, makes the Beastlands "Good with a chaotic lean" that differentiates it from "Chaotic and good in roughly equal parts" that is Arborea?

That's easy enough: the Beastlands (or as I prefer to call it the Happy Hunting Ground) is based on actual nature, whereas Arborea was created by the Fair Folk to resemble nature, because they thought nature was pretty, but they also thought it was kind of messy and icky and so they left out a lot of bits that they didn't like. As a result Arborea (or Arcadia as I call it, having renamed the plane which currently bears that name) is more like a dream of a forest than an actual forest; Lawful people who end up there feel like it's too Uncanny Valley to be quite natural, but the Chaotic locals don't notice the same effect because they're in tune with the underlying spirit of the place. The Beastlands has no Chaotic-Dominant trait, so being Lawful or Neutral has no effect on how comfortable you are; it is more chaotic than Bytopia only in having portals to Arborea through which Eladrins periodically wander and wish aloud that the place was more chaotic, instead of portals to Celestia for occasional checkups from your Friendly Neighborhood Archon-Man who gently reminds you how much safer and more content you'd be if you adopted a bit more Law into your life.

[Arcanist]

Each soul calls out to whatever god they worshiped in life. Atheists are screwed.

The faithful, meanwhile, are eventually gathered up by the god that they are calling out for. Ultimately the soul hopes to merge and become part of their god. So theists are also kind of screwed.

And this is why I will almost certainly never play Forgotten Realms.

After the Time of Trouble, if you didn't believe in Gods then you were considered insane (or stupid). Worshiping a False Idol (aka a "Deity" that hasn't check in with Ao), however is a reasonable complaint along the lines of "What makes your God anymore real them mines?" where as the immediate counter argument would be "My God can actually grant me spells!" :smalltongue:

Regardless, although the rules for Divinity might be hard (HA! "Might) FR handles Divinity the best out of any of the Cosmologies :smallbiggrin:

[willpell]

After the Time of Trouble, if you didn't believe in Gods then you were considered insane (or stupid).

That might be valid logic for two or three generations after the Time of Troubles, but once it's a century or two past, it'd be perfectly legitimate for humans (or young dwarves, or *very* elves and dragons) to claim that it was a myth being repeated to them by all their elders as a way to control them.

[Arcanist]

That might be valid logic for two or three generations after the Time of Troubles, but once it's a century or two past, it'd be perfectly legitimate for humans (or young dwarves, or *very* elves and dragons) to claim that it was a myth being repeated to them by all their elders as a way to control them.

Right... Until you meet a Chosen, or look up (The Shade Enclave), or see a Wild Magic zone, or a Dead Magic zone, or actually encounter a Cleric, oh, or my favorite, You meet a Bard and ask him about the Netherese (Karsus' Folly). A close 2nd favorite would be waiting a good week, I assure you that a deity will pop up on your Door step seeing as how they are actually actively trying to recruit Clerics now-a-days (Elminster). :smallsmile:

Seriously, the Time of Troubles was actually such a memorable and historical event in the History of the Realm that forgetting it's existance, even eons after it's occurance, is an impossibility.

[Grendus]

That might be valid logic for two or three generations after the Time of Troubles, but once it's a century or two past, it'd be perfectly legitimate for humans (or young dwarves, or *very* elves and dragons) to claim that it was a myth being repeated to them by all their elders as a way to control them.

Meh, it's a high magic setting, where powerful wizards walk the earth and gods grant spells by the bushel. Betting against the gods I'd kind of a loser bet to begin with in that setting. But to each his own, if you want to play an athiest Faerun probably isn't for you.

[Emmerask]

In worlds not based on the core cosmology, the answer may vary. Faerun for instance has its own set of such planes with specific destinations for atheists, and Eberron I believe has virtually no knowledge of the afterlife, so people there treat death little differently than in our reality. (Eberron fans correct me if I've got that wrong.)

I thought atheists (well they are not really atheists, since gods are proven to be real so maybe deny-theist?) where put in the wall? Or was that only the evil ones?

[willpell]

Meh, it's a high magic setting, where powerful wizards walk the earth and gods grant spells by the bushel. Betting against the gods I'd kind of a loser bet to begin with in that setting. But to each his own, if you want to play an athiest Faerun probably isn't for you.

Not even so much that I want to, but I want it to be an option, instead of the universe gut-punching you for thinking wrong before you step out the door.

[Arcanist]

Not even so much that I want to, but I want it to be an option, instead of the universe gut-punching you for thinking wrong before you step out the door.

Being an atheist is an option, with bad results, but an option non the less. Hell, you don't even have to be dedicated, just go to Sunday mass and you should be golden. If I recall, most adventurers in the realm have some religious stuff on person if only to go to a nice afterlife. Most of my characters have a tattoo of their God(dess) on them for a quick pass (I think it qualifies as religious scarring).

I might be making a leap here, but I believe that the Shadovar gain automatic access to Shar's divine realm upon death... no source, but with how much the Shades love her, I'd imagine this is the case.

[awa]

but think about it how would your character know that those who don't worship a god end up in the wall. the clerics tell him? Their not very objective are they, they have a vested interest in you joining a religion preferable theirs.

Theirs not a lot of reason to go visit the wall i imagine and only the very most powerful of beings would even attempt it so its hard to verify becuase anyone strong enough to do so either has a vested interest in your belief and is thus not a trustworthy source or has much better things to be doing then running around telling peasants about it. Even then why should you believe them they might be lying. Even if they cared so much about it that they physically dragged you up to the wall and rubbed your nose in it, you still don't need to believe becuase the kind of magic needed to trick you into believing you have seen the wall is so much easier to come by then the stuff needed to actually bring you to the wall that the good money is on someone playing a prank.

So not worshiping a god is certainly possible in the setting and it will only matter after your character is perma dead.

[willpell]

but think about it how would your character know that those who don't worship a god end up in the wall. the clerics tell him? Their not very objective are they, they have a vested interest in you joining a religion preferable theirs.

This. Very this.

[tbok1992]

On an off-topic note I really like how they integrate the concept of damnation for a life of wickedness into the game on a meta level with Lemures, Larvae and Manes. Your punishment for sin is essentially becoming adventurer cannon-fodder! It's brilliant!

[Craft (Cheese)]

(Eberron fans correct me if I've got that wrong.)

In Eberron, the dead go to Dolurrh, which is basically a negative energy plane. It's pretty featureless and those who die walk around as shades there for a while and eventually fade away. Nobody knows for certain where the dead go after that, if anywhere, but Dolurrh itself is well-understood, at least as far as people understand the planes anyway.

[Cerlis]

I think a few issues with people's opinions of the afterlife in 3.5 dnd is as such

the Tri notions of
-Perceived measures of alignment changing your attitude. By this I mean, someone mentioned Law being Chivalric honor. But its really not (Mechinar anyone?). That would be Lawful good. Some look at a paladin as "how screwed up Law is in the alignment system", but dont give enough credit to the Good side, the indifference of celestial powers, the person in question's upbringing and dogma. All of which alter the perception of law by proxy, just because someone who is orderly deems themselves as such.

-There only being so many afterlives. Sure those 3 chaotic good afterlives may not be ideal for everyone, but they are sensible and common forms of Ideal CG notions. Even an Epic level mortal can only create a Demi-plane. You couldn't create a whole plane of existence just because your mental state is different from everyone else. No, the 3 planes where either created or ruled by 3 types of forces and thus mirrors them. The only way to get everyone's perfect afterlife is to essentially mind rape their soul when they die. You certainly couldn't put other souls in the same afterlife, because they would mess each other's "perfect" afterlife. So you'd have to not only create a "fake" afterlife, but make sure they dont ever find out about it.
And that's just a whole can of worms there.

-the last being an ideal afterlife for Evil creatures. The notion of an afterlife is that there is some cosmic force that judges your soul and rewards you justly. Its going to be rare to have an evil God to say "I'm so glad you showed loyalty to me by murdering people, destroying their free will, and not giving a damn about the consequences.....Now live for eternity in endless bliss." Oh I'm sure it would be possible to imagine a god who was. But they'd really be more of a Gray god, rather than a God of Light or Darkness wouldn't they?

[Anecronwashere]

How does rewarding your followers make you LESS evil?
It makes you less stupid, but stupid isn't a prereq for Evil, least of all Lawful Evil.
Lawful Gods wont renege on promises, like say promising eternal glory when the mortal dies in the LE afterlife

And if the God does renege and send their follower to a Bad Place, then 1 rezzed cleric later the word will spread that God X is a lying (illegitimate child) who punishes those that follow him.
And so God X is replaced by God Y who isn't an asshat to his followers, but still wants to cause destruction and further the cause of Evil

[Eldan]

-the last being an ideal afterlife for Evil creatures. The notion of an afterlife is that there is some cosmic force that judges your soul and rewards you justly. Its going to be rare to have an evil God to say "I'm so glad you showed loyalty to me by murdering people, destroying their free will, and not giving a damn about the consequences.....Now live for eternity in endless bliss." Oh I'm sure it would be possible to imagine a god who was. But they'd really be more of a Gray god, rather than a God of Light or Darkness wouldn't they?

Sure they do. I mean, why would anyone worship an evil god if they didn't get a reward out of it?

[awa]

I agree any evil god who failed to provide and appropriate after life for their loyal followers would be stupid as well as evil.

Now it may be a fact that most of the evil followers just aren't good enough to get the best aspects of their afterlife but that just encourages them to be more fanatical in their devotion while alive to earn their place as one of the chosen ones.

Now an orc heaven might look a lot like hell except hes the one holding the whip.

[Eldonauran]

Sure they do. I mean, why would anyone worship an evil god if they didn't get a reward out of it?

One thinks that immediate power in the mortal life as trade for an afterlife of paying for that power, is the common reason. It would explain why a LOT of evil worshippers try their hand at immortality.

Of course, service above and beyond the call of duty (we'll say, expanding the reaches of an evil god's domain and harvesting the souls of thousands in their name) might give you higher status in the afterlife and prevent or reduce the amount of pain you are due. A favored slave is still a slave, after all.

:smallamused:

[Arcanist]

but think about it how would your character know that those who don't worship a god end up in the wall. the clerics tell him? Their not very objective are they, they have a vested interest in you joining a religion preferable theirs.

That is why it is called Faith :smallsmile: The way I see it. Wizards know there is an Afterlife (they were there last week), but Clerics? They believe there is an Afterlife :smallsmile: There is a fine line between knowing Gods exist and believing that Gods exist. After the Time of Troubles Clerics stopped contemplating the existence of their Gods and started contemplating if their Gods actually even cared about them.

Hell, a lot of Deities just come on down to the Realm from their Celestial Rave to actually tell people "Yo, d00d if you don't worship me or mah cosmic posse you gunna get nailed to da wall". Either way, It's best to worship just for the sake of an afterlife, because of the idea that you might be wrong. You don't even have to be devoted, you just need to think for a single moment in your miserable mortal life that you might be wrong... Not much really.

[awa]

but in the forgotten realms gods are powered by faith aren't they? So a god is the least trust worthy person of all to ask about the afterlife.

And as a level 1 character the difference between someone like an epic level wizard and a god is not particularly obvious at first glance, both are so far above you as to make little difference.

[Emmerask]

but in the forgotten realms gods are powered by faith aren't they? So a god is the least trust worthy person of all to ask about the afterlife.

And as a level 1 character the difference between someone like an epic level wizard and a god is not particularly obvious at first glance, both are so far above you as to make little difference.

Yes and no, Ao for example does not need worshipers afaik.
And before the time of troubles the gods did not need worshipers, after though he apparently created a new universal law that gods without worshipers lose their powers and can even die.

[awa]

ao is kinda like the uber deity right? He also isn't going to waste his time telling mortals about the wall is he so my point still holds.

[CowardlyPaladin]

There's also Eberron, where all souls go to Dolruhh to slowly fade away and lose their memories and there very likely aren't any gods.

And there's 4e, where you are taken to the Shadowfell to be judged by the Goddess of Death and be sent either to the great unknown beyond or, if you've followed your god's teachings enough, sent to the Astral Sea (Read: Heaven) to be taken to your god's domain. More likely than not though you'll end up floating in space and kept out of said domain because things are kinda broken due to the Dawn War.

And there's Ghostwalk, which I'm pretty sure I'm the only one on this forum who knows or cares about, where the Afterlife is a real physical place, and the ghosts of the dead have to walk their asses on down there through this city, and you aren't really separated by morality when you get there.

Nobody Knows about Athas from Dark Sun's afterlife, but it is probably something painful and depressing, because everything involving life on Athas is Painful and depressing.

Ghostwalk is one of the most unappreciated Settings in D&D :(

[Arcanist]

ao is kinda like the uber deity right? He also isn't going to waste his time telling mortals about the wall is he so my point still holds.

Right, Ao isn't going to tell anyone because he doesn't give a rats ass, but the other Gods are because they need Worshipers.

It's an interesting puzzle don't you think? If the Atheist is right, nothing happens, if he is wrong, he is stuck in a wall for eternity being used as a lego :smalltongue:

[Bogardan_Mage]

Meh, it's a high magic setting, where powerful wizards walk the earth and gods grant spells by the bushel. Betting against the gods I'd kind of a loser bet to begin with in that setting. But to each his own, if you want to play an athiest Faerun probably isn't for you.
On the other hand, an epic level wizard is more or less a god in all but name, so high-magic could arguably provide a plausible explanation for even demonstrable divine action (that wasn't a deity, it was "only" a high level magic user). The reasoning that leads one to such a conclusion is more difficult to determine, I suppose.

[CowardlyPaladin]

Btw, this thread inspired me to create my own thread about explaining the D&D afterlife, which in hindsite I might have just merged instead. So i'm just going to move my stuff here



Essentially this is how it works

1) When you die, your soul goes to the Fugue Plane, a sort of demiplane where your soul is taken to the City of the dead.

2) If your worshiped a God while living, your soul is judged according to that God's standards. Every god has a series of requirements, often ritual, that one must fulfill to go to his or her realm. Many of which invoke burial. For example, in my game worshipers of Tempus must die in combat, otherwise they aren't allowed to go to the afterlife, while a worshiper of Mask must have donated a proper sum to his church. Should they fail these requirments, they are condemned to go to their "Rightful" place

3) The Rightful place is one of the alignment planes, either the 9 "Core Planes" or the various mixes of planes, depending on their choices in life. So if I"m a Lawful Good Person, and I either don't worship a god, or I worshiped a non deity faith (like a philosophy or something) or I was heretical in my worship, then I am going to go to one of the Lawful Good Realms (LG, LG/NG/ LG/LN). If I am Chaotic Evil, then I worshiped Bane in the hopes that he would protect me from going to the Abyss, however I failed him (he is a fickle God) and I was rejected from his realm then i'm stuck in the Abyss.

4) Each realm treats your soul differently. In the Abyss, I am turned into a Soul Larvae, where my soul struggles to survive and by consuming other Larvae i can eventually become a full Demon and then if i'm lucky rise through the ranks to a Demon Prince (like Orcus). In Hell my memories are wiped and i'm transformed instantly into a Devil, albiet a very weak on on the totem pool . If I go to the Seven Heavens, then I don't have to transform into an Archon, I can stay around in Paradise until I get bored of Paradise and turn myself into an archon

5) Those who don't worship Gods, and instead follow philosophies, worship native spirits, worship nature itself, or worship a false God go to their AL planes instead.


This helps explain the "Problem of Evil" in D&D, why do Evil people in a world where one KNOWs what the afterlife is like ever be evil?

1) most people don't know how this system works. While people have a general idea of the planes, the average bandit doesn't know or doesn't care

2) While Absolute Good and Evil are around in D&D, not everybody knows this. Most scholars and clerics are aware of it, but a merchant who cheats people might not be aware that this is how the world works

3) The Vast Majority of Evil People worship Gods, who they believe dictate the "real" absolute morality. So if I worship Hextor, then my world view dictates that I"m not evil, but I am instead a good person protecting the world from disorder

4) Many evil people will go to the afterlives of said Gods rather than going to the Lower PLanes, and thus most mortals don't worry about "not being evil" but instead "trying to be devout".

5) Even those who do know that the Lower Planes exist don't necessarily understand how they function, i'm sure many Lower Plane beings send out massive amounts of propaganda in order to make it seem like a nicer place than it actually is

6) Many evil people believe that if they revere a Demon Lord or Archdevil their master will reward them for their faithful service and will not punish them overmuch going to hell. This is mostly foolish but hey.

7) Finally even those evil people who know full well how the Lower PLanes work might think that they are so unique that they can overcome it, that because "I" am lord Draken the Lich King, I am inherently powerful enough to rise to the top of the 9 Hells due to my uniquely brilliant mind and abilities.

8) Being Good is really really hard in D&D, and many people just fail to make the cut, Evil is Easier

9) Finally, many evil people might think that they are good. I mean Goblinslayer from the Webcomic "Goblins" clearly though of himself as the Good Guy and didn't realize that torturing Goblins to death counted as an evil action.


I hope that might clear some things up

[Coidzor]

Right, Ao isn't going to tell anyone because he doesn't give a rats ass, but the other Gods are because they need Worshipers.

It's an interesting puzzle don't you think? If the Atheist is right, nothing happens, if he is wrong, he is stuck in a wall for eternity being used as a lego :smalltongue:

I'm surprised we haven't gotten to the point in this inevitable discussion where the fact that the more appropriate term is misotheist comes up, because recognizing the setup for the tyranny of the gods that it is demands one either buy into it or actively reject it.


ao is kinda like the uber deity right? He also isn't going to waste his time telling mortals about the wall is he so my point still holds.

Ao was Ed Greenwood and then WOTC, as I recall it. Less of a god, more of a meta-4th-wall-construct.

He's not going to tell people because he doesn't want to be known to anyone which is why he's been mindraping people into forgetting about him since the time of troubles.

[willpell]

Ghostwalk is one of the most unappreciated Settings in D&D :(

Well it's a weird one and thus makes for a hard sell. IMO, the idea that all the dead from everywhere go to one specific physical location inherently suggests that the world is tiny, and I like grand epic scope so using the out-of-the-box setting isn't great for me. Also it's 3.0 which limits the usability without modification. Still, it has definite potential.


I agree any evil god who failed to provide and appropriate after life for their loyal followers would be stupid as well as evil.

My figuring has always been that Hell is Heaven for the Evil mindset - you want a place where the strong brutalize the weak, because you think you are strong and you enjoy brutalizing things. For these individuals, being forced to stop and help random old ladies get their cat out of a tree all the time would be torture; they don't want kindness and caring and political correctness and to listen to other people whinging about inanities, they just want to smash the faces of people who tick them off, exploit those who have "stupidly" left themselves vulnerable to exploitation, and otherwise generally be jerks for fun and profit. They enjoy the intensity of a high-stakes environment where risk exists, figuring there's no thrill to victory without the threat of ignominious defeat. Depending on how I want the cosmology to work, I may interpret the fiends as being souls who were "promoted" to superhuman status for their supreme ruthlessness, just as celestials may have been "chosen" and elevated to divinity because they were ultravirtuous.

[Coidzor]

Well it's a weird one and thus makes for a hard sell. IMO, the idea that all the dead from everywhere go to one specific physical location inherently suggests that the world is tiny, and I like grand epic scope so using the out-of-the-box setting isn't great for me. Also it's 3.0 which limits the usability without modification. Still, it has definite potential.

I'd thought the free online 3.5 conversion was fairly complete. :smallconfused:

[willpell]

I'd thought the free online 3.5 conversion was fairly complete. :smallconfused:

Point me to it, s'il vous plait?

[awa]

i saw ghost walk years ago and at the time i disliked a few of the aspects most memorably the revolving door after life aspect.

Now that im older and run less traditional dnd games i might get more out of it.

But in retrospect it should be obvious why it didn't sell look at the dnd settings that sold well and dominated third edition there all super generic able to make use of all or nearly all wizards source material. ghost walk feel like it should have been a second edition setting that's where all the settings that fundamental altered the nature and feel of the game are.

(ebberon is an exception to a degree)

[Coidzor]

Point me to it, s'il vous plait?

I thought this on the wizard's website. (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20031225a) Granted I might've gotten the files mixed up because I downloaded it originally at the same time as the original ghostwalk and it's been ages...