Is it advisable to create a gesalt monk-fighter in pathfinder

[about50heavies]

I am consider a making a gesalt fighter/ monk named fisto. My question would be how to do it? Who got the reference?

[herrhauptmann]

Is it a DB/DBZ/DBGT reference?

It's a bad idea.
You're just a monk, only with good bab and bonus feats. But your bonus feats don't help with a lot of your monk things. Even in gestalt, your only option is to run up and hit things. Racial sub levels might give you a few options, but not many. Best is probably dungeoncrasher fighter at level 6. In other words, most of the random builds that might show up in your party are going to outshine you even worse than they would in non-gestalt. Particularly since the guys that play 'fun but less effective' characters are a lot less common in gestalt games.

The core of gestalt is to have an 'active' and a 'passive' side.
So wizard//cleric or wizard//sorc is a bad idea, because you're limited in your actions, gestalt doesn't really help you cast 2 spells a round. Certain builds can do it, but they do it just fine in nongestalt too.
The passive side is something you use to boost saves, or bab, or give yourself a buff in the morning.
The active side is the one you use your actions on.

Good passive options:
Totemist and factotum. I think binder is useful too.

I'm not saying 'don't do it,' but that it would probably be a bad idea.

[Story]

Assuming this build will be in a party of non gestalts, you'll be slightly less ineffective than without the gestalt. Go for it, but don't expect to keep up with the cleric or wizard.

Assuming the whole party is gestalt, what makes you think combining two underpowered classes will be any better? Just play a Swordsage.

[about50heavies]

What would be a good class to gesalt with monk. The reference was to fisto the robot in fallout NV

[ericgrau]

I dunno about that. The entire combat expertise tree is nice on the monk, though he already gets one as a bonus feat. Melee weapon mastery is nice if you don't mind some mild optimization. Pretty much tons of feats are nice, and once you sit down and put a character together it's surprising how no matter how many feats you get you can always use more.

The lack of heavy armor is a drawback. Based on the name alone I can already see the build avoiding weapons, which is not something even a regular monk should do. Starting level 13 the SR is nice as long as you can also maintain a decent AC. And you already get good saves of course. Overall I can see it becoming disappointing in both damage and defense. When you have that many attacks you really want per hit effects like tripping. That is something the monk does well. But hitting stuff hard with a big fist is something that a monk does poorly. With heavy optimization you can get it up to so-so... and your defenses will still be poor.

If you want to smash things you might consider monk // druid. You get wis to AC. You are dependent on less stats because you no longer need physical stats. Most animal forms are great for grappling, and suddenly you've gone from an animal's horrible 1d2 or 1d3 to a monk's unarmed strike damage. The synergy is really nice. True your natural attacks don't use unarmed strike damage but you can switch between flurry or multiple natural attacks as needed. As always saves and SR are nice.

Basically core D&D doesn't have any effective way to punch things for damage and players who try for such things are going to find themselves in trouble. There might be high optimization ways to do ok, but there are high op ways to do way more damage with a weapon.

[about50heavies]

Forgot to mention this is in a pathfinder campaign

[ericgrau]

You might try the summoner variant where you merge with your eidilon, but I don't know if that lets you use monk abilities while merged. I'd have to go read it. Check out www.d20pfsrd.com and see. That variant is the most popular for imitating robot suits, even though I suppose it's really a beast suit.

Here's the summoner variant (read the summoner class description too): http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/paizo---summoner-archetypes/synthesist

It seems like the druid you can't flurry with the eidilon's natural attacks. But I presume you could still flurry with unarmed strikes.

[Gavinfoxx]

So, you want a competent fisticuffs melee combatant in gestalt pathfinder?

Why not just say, "Hey, how do I make a competent unarmed melee combatant who fights with his fists in pathfinder, via gestalt?"

[Kobold Esq]

I am consider a making a gesalt fighter/ monk named fisto. My question would be how to do it? Who got the reference?

http://mikescollection.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/motu-fisto-toon.jpg

[herrhauptmann]

Forgot to mention this is in a pathfinder campaign
You should go back and update the thread title.
PF monk has a few more options than 3.5 monk, but I don't know if it's strictly better.
PF fighter is strictly better than 3.5 fighter.


If you want to smash things you might consider monk // druid. You get wis to AC. You are dependent on less stats because you no longer need physical stats. Most animal forms are great for grappling, and suddenly you've gone from an animal's horrible 1d2 or 1d3 to a monk's unarmed strike damage. The synergy is really nice. True your natural attacks don't use unarmed strike damage but you can switch between flurry or multiple natural attacks as needed. As always saves and SR are nice.

Apparently it's PF, which nerfed the druid a bit, particularly the wildshape.
He'll still have spells, but he can't totally dump his physical stats.

[Sziget Pengék]

Rogue is a good one, get sneak attack on flurry, get improved feint to drop them flat footed and you are an unarmed murder machine. i would suggest the unarmed swordsage variant though, its vastly superior to monk. I would also suggest superior unarmed strike on page 33 of ToB.

[navar100]

Will you have fun?

If yes, then do it.
If no, then play something else.

It is not a requirement to be the most optimal best strongest possible character of the cosmos. However, the combo does have non-synergy issues you should be aware of and determine for yourself whether you can get over them.

If you wear armor, then no evasion and no wisdom to ac. If you want evasion and wisdom to ac, you retain the problem monks have in getting AC.

Fisticuffs are fine, but it's still lower in damage than a great sword for most of your adventuring career. You also cannot Flurry with a great sword. This might not really be an issue since you may really, really want to fight with your hands. That's ok. Fun can trump most optimal quite easily. If you want to get good use out of Power Attack, use a quarterstaff two-handed. You can Flurry but combined with Power Attack you'll have a significant penalty to hit. Solution: Don't Power Attack while using Flurry. Flurry for when you get a full attack. Power Attack when you have or will move and are only getting one attack anyway. You can still use Shock Trooper/Leap Attack/Power Attack combo. That is where your fighter half shines. You are not all about monk after all.

[Sziget Pengék]

You should go back and update the thread title.
PF monk has a few more options than 3.5 monk, but I don't know if it's strictly better.
PF fighter is strictly better than 3.5 fighter.

Apparently it's PF, which nerfed the druid a bit, particularly the wildshape.
He'll still have spells, but he can't totally dump his physical stats.




yeah, i havent a clue about PF, i live in 3.5 land haha

[ericgrau]

Apparently it's PF, which nerfed the druid a bit, particularly the wildshape.
He'll still have spells, but he can't totally dump his physical stats.

Oddly enough a synthesist can dump his physical stats. So they nerf the druid but once they make their own class they stop caring about such things. I'm thinking even more that a summoner-synthesist is the way to go. Possibly gestalted with monk, or fighter for feats, attack bonus and damage might be nice too.

[gorfnab]

Monk // Psychic Warrior (Survivor, Feral Warrior, Brawling, or Ascetic path) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/psychic-warrior)

[Susano-wo]

mechanically speaking, barring possible unarmed ACFs for fighter, is just a bad idea. you have full BAB for flurry and combat maneuvers, so the BAB from fighter is going to do little to no good, you can't make use of the armor, or the armor based class features, nor can you benefit from the weapon training class feature. basically its extra feats, which is rather sub par for a gestalt combo. Unless you are that attached to the fighter, I'd find about any other class (even other full BAB classes), since they will synergize better.

(oh and I've done rogue monk normally, and had a lot of fun with it--gestalt would be a blast, even if its not the 'best' combo. Sneak attack flurry? yes please :P)

out of curiosity, are you patterned after Fisto Roboto the Archer gag, or Fisto the He-man character (I'm guessing the second, though the first thing I thought of was the first)

[docnessuno]

Monk // Inquisitor (bane, judgment, wis sinergy, spellcasting), Monk // Synthesist summoner (insane stats, pounce, other goodies, spellcasting), Monk // Rogue/ninja (sneak attack) and monk / Wis based caster (full spellcasting) are all good options.

Due to the way flurry works in pathfinder, the monk doen't gain anything from a full BAB class except for slightly better AoOs.

[Ravens_cry]

What would be a good class to gesalt with monk. The reference was to fisto the robot in fallout NV
Cleric. Monk contributes fairly little, but cleric's buffs make a nice mix if you decide to concentrate on the Monk side.

[Private]

I have to second the Monk/Synthesist Summoner suggestion. The main downside to Eidolons is that they don't get full BAB, but they can pump their Strength to pretty high numbers, which helps offset that. If you play a monk with the Feral Combat Training feat, you won't need to waste lots of Evolution Points on Multiple attacks. You can instead invest in one powerful attack, say a bite, and add on Grab and Trip evolutions. This will allow you to use Flurry of Blows (effectively full BAB and the TWF tree) with a great natural attack that has lots of nasty side effects (for free). You'll also probably have the highest AC in the group with your Monk AC bonus + Wisdom, plus all the Natural Armor from the Eidolon, then add on some Mage Armor.

I also strongly suggest using the Snake Style Tree, which allows you to use Sense Motive as your AC 1/turn, but the real benefit is Snake Fang which allows you to make 2 "Unarmed" (Natural attacks for you) attacks each time a foe misses you while you are using Snake Style (Which will be always).

I've actually been working on a similar build myself, except using Ninja instead of Monk, for the extra Sneak Attack damage, but I think Monk/Synthesist Summoner is a solid Build.

(Also,I know the Bite isn't what you were looking for, but I say just Fluff it. I have an Eidolon who shoots light rays (aka Tentacle attacks).)

[docnessuno]

I have to second the Monk/Synthesist Summoner suggestion. The main downside to Eidolons is that they don't get full BAB, but they can pump their Strength to pretty high numbers, which helps offset that. If you play a monk with the Feral Combat Training feat, you won't need to waste lots of Evolution Points on Multiple attacks. You can instead invest in one powerful attack, say a bite, and add on Grab and Trip evolutions. This will allow you to use Flurry of Blows (effectively full BAB and the TWF tree) with a great natural attack that has lots of nasty side effects (for free). You'll also probably have the highest AC in the group with your Monk AC bonus + Wisdom, plus all the Natural Armor from the Eidolon, then add on some Mage Armor.

I also strongly suggest using the Snake Style Tree, which allows you to use Sense Motive as your AC 1/turn, but the real benefit is Snake Fang which allows you to make 2 "Unarmed" (Natural attacks for you) attacks each time a foe misses you while you are using Snake Style (Which will be always).

I've actually been working on a similar build myself, except using Ninja instead of Monk, for the extra Sneak Attack damage, but I think Monk/Synthesist Summoner is a solid Build.

(Also,I know the Bite isn't what you were looking for, but I say just Fluff it. I have an Eidolon who shoots light rays (aka Tentacle attacks).)

I also really like the Monk // Inquisitor combination i suggested earlier, both in fluff and crunch. Lots of Wis sinergy, judgments and "bane" fists really add up, as well as spellcasting.

[genericwit]

I could see it being cool if monks got the ability to pounce or something, or if you could do twf with your fists (seven attacks at 2d10? yes please). Or if you could find a way to get dex or wis to damage (which monks should), you could reduce some of the MAD.