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Meeky
2012-12-25, 07:27 PM
My DM is planning on running a new game, and she, another player and I have been working together to think of a way to combine certain features of the Druid, Monk, and Rogue classes. Namely, we want to make something that functions as a Wildshape warrior with medium BAB, lowered spellcasting capabilities, and sneak attack. It's been hard to strike a balance with all of this to make a single new class, and we're a bit unsure if the class is balanced.

If anyone here would be kind enough to give us their personal opinions on the balance of the class, we would be very appreciative. Again, the goal is to strike a balance between these three classes that isn't overpowered (or underpowered) to make a class whose specialty is killing things effectively in Wild Shape.

We've effectively used the druid as the starting point when designing this class, using its skill points, HD, and spell list. However, its saves and specials have been changed, among other things.

EDIT: As a final thought, we're still on the fence as to whether this magic progression is too fast. I'm leaning toward suggesting we switch to Ranger spellcaster progression, and/or perhaps lowering the amount of Sneak Attack die gained.

Wildstalker

Wildstalkers are hunters, first and foremost. An outsider might assert that wildstalkers are merely another form of druid, that they are protectors of nature or follow a naturalist philosophy, but this is untrue. Wildstalkers simply are, just as nature simply is. They are less concerned with preserving balance than living the life of a beast, of experiencing the thrill of the hunt, and of letting instinct rule their actions.

Most wildstalkers can be found living in the wilderness as hermits, and they usually prefer the company of animals to those of people. They are sometimes employed as scouts and assassins, especially by tribal societies, and may answer a druid's call to arms if their territory is threatened. However, they are as fickle as the powers they embody, and they answer only to their instincts.

Wildstalkers get along well with barbarians, who find much in common with the free nature of the shapeshifters. They also tend to be friends with druids and rangers, though these protectors of the wild tend to see wildstalkers as a sort of distant, embarrassing cousin. Wildstalkers usually ignore paladins, and their relationship with monks can be best described as "abysmal."

Role: Wildstalkers are most comfortable when on the prowl. They make excellent scouts, especially in the wilderness, and powerful wildstalkers can slay an opponent before he realizes he is even being watched. Depending on the forms they choose to take, they can also fight well in the thick of the melee. They have the ability to cast druidic spells, but their emphasis on shapeshifting makes them tertiary spellcasters at best.

Alignment: Any Non-Lawful

Hit Die: d8

Starting Wealth: 2d6 × 10 gp (average 70 gp.) In addition, each character begins play with an outfit worth 10 gp or less.

Class Skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Craft, Disguise, Escape Artist, Fly, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (Nature), Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Stealth, Survival, Swim

Skill ranks per level: 4 + Int. Modifier



Table: Wildstalker

Lvl BAB Fort/Ref/Will....Special
================================================== ================================================== ========================

1 0 0/2/2............Wild Shape (Small, 1/day) Orison, Wild Empathy*, Sneak Attack 1d6, AC Bonus+0
2 1 0/3/3............Woodland Stride*
3 2 1/3/3............Trackless Step*, Wild Shape (Small-Medium, 2/day), Predatory Instinct+1
4 3 1/4/4............Sneak Attack 2d6, Stunning Fist, Feral Strike (Magic)
5 3 2/4/4
6 4 2/5/5............Wild Shape (Tiny-Medium, 3/day), AC Bonus+1
7 5 2/5/5............Fast Movement+10', Predatory Instinct+2, Feral Strike (Cold Iron, Silver)
8 6 3/6/6............Wild Shape (Tiny-Large, 4/day), Sneak Attack 3d6
9 6 3/6/6............Venom Immunity
10 7 4/7/7...........Wild Shape (Diminutive-Large, 5/day), Feral Strike (Alignment*)
11 8 4/7/7...........Scent, Predatory Instinct+3
12 9 4/8/8...........Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, 6/day), Sneak Attack 4d6, AC Bonus+2
13 9 4/8/8...........A Thousand Faces
14 10 4/9/9.........Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, 7/day), Fast Movement+20'
15 11 5/9/9..........Timeless Body, Predatory Instinct+4
16 12 5/10/10.......Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, Small Magical Beast, 8/day), Sneak Attack 5d6, Feral Strike (Adamantine)
17 12 5/10/10
18 13 6/11/11.......Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, Small-Medium Magical Beast, 9/day), AC Bonus+3
19 14 6/11/11.......Predatory Instinct+5
20 15 6/12/12.......Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, Small-Large Magical Beast, Unlimited/day), Sneak Attack 6d6

================================================== ================================================== ========================



Table: Wildstalker Spellcasting

Character Level.......Spells Per Day
............................0/1/2/3/4/5/6
================================================== ================================================== ========================

1.............3/1
2.............4/2
3.............4/3
4.............4/3/1
5.............4/4/2
6.............5/4/3
7.............5/4/3/1
8.............5/4/3/2
9.............5/5/4/3
10...........5/5/4/3/1
11...........5/5/4/3/2
12...........5/5/5/4/3
13...........5/5/5/4/3/1
14...........5/5/5/4/3/2
15...........5/5/5/5/4/3
16...........5/5/5/5/4/3/1
17...........5/5/5/5/4/4/2
18...........5/5/5/5/5/4/3
19...........5/5/5/5/5/5/4
20...........5/5/5/5/5/5/5

================================================== ================================================== ========================


Class Features:

All of the following are class features for the wildstalker.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency - Wildstalkers are only proficient in the use of Simple Weapons. The wildstalker has no armor proficiencies.

Spellcasting - A wildstalker casts divine spells, which are drawn from the druid spell list. His alignment may restrict him from casting certain spells opposed to him moral or ethical beliefs; see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells. A wildstalker must choose and prepare his spells in advance.

To prepare or cast a spell, the wildstalker must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a wildstalker's spell is 10 + the spell level + the wildstalker's Wisdom modifier.

Spontaneous Casting - Wildstalkers, unlike druids, do not have spontaneous casting.

Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells - A wildstalker can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity's (if he has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions. A wildstalker can never cast lawful spells from the druid spell list.

Orisons - Wildstalkers can prepare a number of orisons, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Wildstalker Spellcasting under “Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again.

Wild Shape - A wildstalker is able to take on the form of an animal he has encountered. This ability functions as the Druid Wild Shape ability with some differences.

Wildstalkers can begin using their Wild Shape at level 1; however, the animal they change into must be a creature they have previously encountered as well as meet the criteria for animals the wildstalker can currently take the shape of. Furthermore, for each 'tier' of Wild Shape (a new size category or a new type of creature, such as Magical Beast), the wildstalker must choose three forms belonging to that category that he may take the form of. Each time the wildstalker gains access to a new 'tier' of Wild Shape, the Wild Stalker may replace one previously selected form for another creature of the same tier that he has encountered.

For example, a level 1 wildstalker may be able to take the form of a dog, a badger, and an octopus. At level 4, the wildstalker can also shapeshift into Medium animals, and thus gains three new forms for Medium animals, such as a pony, a wolf, and a medium shark. He decides that he no longer wishes to be able to take the form of a dog, and at level 4 changes his Small animal selections to an eagle, a badger, and an octopus.

Changing forms is a free action for wildstalkers, whether they are changing into an animal or back into their natural form. Multiple changes in a single round still count as multiple uses of the Wild Shape ability. Changing forms more than once in a round incurs a 1d4 round cooldown on the wildstalker's ability to change forms. This cooldown also affects the wildstalker's ability to shapeshift back to his natural form.

Wildstalkers may shapeshift as an immediate action in combat; however, this incurs a 2d4 round cooldown on the ability to shapeshift. If the wildstalker is considered flatfooted or otherwise caught unawares, he may not use shapeshift as an immediate action unless he has the Uncanny Dodge ability from another class.

The wildstalker may take new forms and use her Wild Shape more times per day as indicated on the wildstalker table. At level 16, wilderstalkers may take the form of Magical Beasts of certain sizes. All forms are subject to DM approval.

Wild Empathy - This ability functions as the Druid Wild Empathy ability, except that the Wild Stalker can only use it in animal form, and only with animals of a similar type. (For instance, a wildstalker in wolf form could communicate with canine animals, such as dogs or coyotes, but not with birds, such as hawks or owls.)

Sneak Attack - This functions as the Rogue Sneak Attack ability, only the Wildstalker gains Sneak Attack die more slowly.

AC Bonus - Wildstalkers, like monks, gain their Wisdom bonus to AC, but only when they are unarmored, are carrying less than a medium load, are not wielding a shield, and are currently using a Wild Shape form. He gains additional AC according to Table: Wildstalker.

Woodland Stride - This functions as the Druid ability Woodland Stride.

Trackless Step - This functions as the Druid ability Trackless Step.

Predatory Instinct - As a wildstalker grows in power, he begins to take on a more predatory nature, and slowly becomes able to camouflage and blend in with his surroundings. At level 3, the wildstalker gains +1 to disguise, perception, and stealth checks while in a Wild Shape form. Every four levels thereafter, these bonuses increase by +1. At level 11, these bonuses also apply to the wildstalker's natural form.

Stunning Fist - At level 4, the wildstalker gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. The wildstalker may use Stunning Fist with the natural attacks of any form.

Feral Strike - This ability functions as the Monk's Ki Strike ability except that it only applies to the wildstalker's Wild Shape forms. The wildstalker overcomes damage reduction as shown on Table: Wildstalker.

When the wildstalker reaches level 10, he must choose what alignment his Feral Strike counts as for purposes of damage reduction. The alignment he chooses must correspond with his own alignment, and True Neutral wildstalkers may choose any alignment axis but lawful. If his Feral Strike alignment no longer matches his own alignment due to an alignment change, he must choose a new alignment for his Feral Strike that corresponds with this new alignment.

Fast Movement - Wildstalkers gain increased base movement speed as indicated on Table: Wildstalker. However, this speed increase only functions in Wild Shape forms.

Venom Immunity - At 9th level, a Wildstalker gains immunity to all poisons.

Scent - At level 11, the wildstalker gains scent as an extraordinary ability for all forms, including his natural form.

A Thousand Faces - At 13th level, a wildstalker gains the ability to change his appearance at will, as if using the alter self spell, but only while in his normal form.

Timeless Body - After attaining 15th level, a wildstalker no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties he may have already incurred, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the wildstalker still dies of old age when his time is up.

Favored Class Options:
+1 HP/Level
+1 Skill/Level
+1/6 Rogue Talent/Level
+1/6 Sneak Attack 1d6/Level
+1/6 Wisdom AC Bonus/Level
+1/3 Wild Shape Natural AC/Level
+1/5 5' Fast Movement/Level

ngilop
2012-12-25, 07:49 PM
The druid already can specialize to kill things whilst wild shaped but i guess that is not what you are looking for.

right now this class is weaker than the druid ( wich is allright becuase the druid is one of the big 3)

the monk abiltiies make no sense at all to me but this class BLOWS the monk ou of the water and into the ionosphere.

and with wild shaping and 6th level spells this class is a lot more powerful than the rogue.

TO me Id think that making this a PrC would be better, I made on on the homebrew forums a while ago can't find it but here are the barebones

Deadly Claw of the hunt
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+0|+2|+2|+2|Wilderness Affinity, sneak attack +1d6

2nd|+1|+3|+3|+3|

3rd|+2|+3|+3|+3|+1 level of Divine spell Casting, sneak attack +1d6

4th|+3|+4|+4|+4|

5th|+3|+4|+4|+4|sneak attack +1d6

6th|+4|+5|+5|+5|+1 level of Divine spell Casting

7th|+5|+5|+5|+5|sneak attack +1d6

8th|+6|+6|+6|+6|

9th|+6|+6|+6|+6|+1 level of Divine spell Casting, sneak attack +1d6

10th|+7|+7|+7|+7|

[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d8



for the level 10 ability i made some kind of critical neagting thing.. my google fu is not as good as others or else id link the whole thing.

really If you want to just be amazing at wildshape and be beast in melee pur druid would be good, if you really want to wildshape at first level just ask your DM to get rid of your animal companion and trade that for wildshape at first.

right now you are just playing a weaker druid that can sneak attack or when not wildshaped stunning fist things.


if you want a druid that cna sneak attack and do rogue stuff.. why not just multiclass rogue/druid?

there is a 3.5 Prestige class called teh daggerspell shaper in teh complete adventurer that combines the two.

its actually pretty decent 9 level of spell casting progression full wildshape progression, teh abilityt o when attacking with daggers cast a spell ala magus like. the dagger you wield become your claws in wildshape form ( so if you have +3 sonic burst daggers your claws are now +3 sonic burst) and teh capsotne is basically a monks flurry of blows only with daggers.

Meeky
2012-12-25, 07:58 PM
if you want a druid that cna sneak attack and do rogue stuff.. why not just multiclass rogue/druid?

Well, note that this isn't what I want, but what the other player wants. That said, he wants monk, rogue, and druid abilities, but he doesn't want everything each class has to offer.

He has powergamed before, but sheer power isn't the intent here. What we're trying to make is a moderate, effective, niche new melee class with a druidic focus. With that in mind, we're... Well, doing what we're doing.

Do you think that slowing down spellcasting progression to that of a Ranger's would help us reach that goal (a class balanced with other Pathfinder classes)? If so, should some other changes be made, or would that be enough to keep it balanced with other Pathfinder base classes in general?

erikun
2012-12-25, 08:08 PM
How do you want this to be like the Druid?
How do you want this to be like the Monk?
How do you want this to be like the Rogue?
Answering these will help you to determine how well this class performs compared to what you want.

As for the class, saying that it is worse than Druid but better than Monk just means that it is playable. :smalltongue: 6th level spellcasting plus wildshape pretty much means Tier 3, although this matters a lot less than how you are planning on playing the class.

Meeky
2012-12-25, 08:18 PM
As for the class, saying that it is worse than Druid but better than Monk just means that it is playable. :smalltongue: 6th level spellcasting plus wildshape pretty much means Tier 3, although this matters a lot less than how you are planning on playing the class.

That's good to hear. I'm having my friend answer the questions now...


How do you want this to be like the Druid?
How do you want this to be like the Monk?
How do you want this to be like the Rogue?

He wants to make this a class that, in his opinion, is how a druid "should have been," a shapeshift-focused druid, while also functioning well as an assassin. Generally, he wants it to be able to play a tough melee character (monk AC for survival, sneak attack for damage, shapeshift for both) that can, in a pinch, support with magic.

We're still unsure about the whole thing, and unsure if it's TOO much stronger than a monk or rogue at combat (which the Pathfinder versions can, theoretically, both be really good at). The Daggerspell Shaper suggestion is sticking out in our heads right now, but it doesn't really function as a base class. Still, the Dagger Claws ability seems like something we should think about, perhaps even switching out the Feral Strike ability with something similar (though that could get very overpowered very fast).

ngilop
2012-12-25, 08:32 PM
yes wild shape alone is bounds above a monk or rogue at combat.

sure PF made it so a druid actually has to have SOME physical stats instead of how as 3.5 you could run around with a 3 in them but still end up with a 30 STR +/_ when wildshaped.

with the right selection of spells prepared (mostly self buffs) the druid is by far and large the best melee in the game still

found my PrC and edited it to iclue the awsome dagger spells haper weapons morph ( why didn't I think of that earlier?) Deadly Claw of The Hunt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12754356&postcount=1)

If you want a weakned version fo druid casting combined with a a rogues sneak attck Id suggest doing this ( id skip the monks tuff as you can't used stuff based on unarmed while using natural weapons, which I assume that since the player wants to be a
shapeshifted focused assassin druid will be wildshaped most of the time and rendering all those monk abilities pointless.

Id give your druid bard spell progression get rid of the animal companion.

give them sneak attack at 2nd level increasing every 4th level afterwards ( you end up +6d6 at 18th level)
im still on the fence about rogue talents as spells>talents by far..

and give them the monk widsom to AC at first level

you still have a class that dominates melee, just from this time starting at 1st instead of 4th. and cn now manage to do even more dmg IF he catches the foe flat footed.

youd still fall short of a pure druid that did the same thing, but youd be better than a rogue or monk at meleeing.

so youd probly be high 'tier' 3 or low 'tier' 2 depending.

erikun
2012-12-25, 08:43 PM
A shapeshift-focused druid sounds more like a Wildshape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) or using the Wildshape variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#wildShapeVariantAspectOfN ature) to grant bonuses and abilities, rather than changing form. Or both. It might be a good place to start with.

As for Monk AC and Sneak Attack, it shouldn't be too bad to throw them onto a class, especially if you're taking something away (or starting with the rather weak Ranger). Gaining Sneak Attack in exchange for Favored Enemy is probably a fair trade, and the idea behind Feral Strike is a good one. Monk AC can be applied when wearing light armor and still work (the unarmed Swordsage variant works that way) but I don't think it gets much static AC bonus on top of it.

You'd probably want to keep Camouflage/Hide in plain sight, as it fits the player's concept, but lose the rest of the Ranger abilities. All the extra Druid abilities don't seem to suit the player's purpose. Giving them Ranger spellcasting, especially with their choice between Ranger and Druid spell lists, would probably work.

Here is my recommended class.

{table]Lvl | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 0 | Wild Shape (Small, 1/day), Sneak Attack 1d6, AC Bonus+0, Track, wild empathy
2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 0 |
3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 1 | Wild Shape (2/day)
4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 1 | Sneak Attack 2d6, Spellcasting
5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 2 | Feral Strike (Magic)
6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 2 | Wild Shape (Tiny-Medium, 3/day), AC Bonus+1
7 | 7 | 5 | 5 | 2 | Feral Strike (Cold Iron, Silver)
8 | 8 | 6 | 6 | 3 | Wild Shape (Tiny-Large, 4/day), Sneak Attack 3d6
9 | 9 | 6 | 6 | 3 | Camouflage
10 | 10 | 7 | 7 | 4 | Wild Shape (Diminutive-Large, 5/day), Feral Strike (Alignment*)
11 | 11 | 7 | 7 | 4 | Scent
12 | 12 | 8 | 8 | 4 | Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, 6/day), Sneak Attack 4d6, AC Bonus+2
13 | 13 | 8 | 8 | 4 | Hide in plain sight
14 | 14 | 9 | 9 | 4 | Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, 7/day)
15 | 15 | 9 | 9 | 5 | Feral Strike (Adamantine)
16 | 16 | 10 | 10 | 5 | Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, Small Magical Beast, 8/day), Sneak Attack 5d6
17 | 17 | 10 | 10 | 5 |
18 | 18 | 11 | 11 | 6 | Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, Small-Medium Magical Beast, 9/day), AC Bonus+3
19 | 19 | 11 | 11 | 6 |
20 | 20 | 12 | 12 | 6 | Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, Small-Large Magical Beast, Unlimited/day), Sneak Attack 6d6[/table]

Casts spells as a Ranger, but with full caster level. May choose spells from the Ranger or Druid spell lists.

Please note that I gave the class some abilities as a more reasonable (earlier) level.

Is there any reason you are limiting magical beasts to small-large? Any particular ones you want the character avoiding using - or better yet, any reason you want to allow magical beasts in the first place?

Meeky
2012-12-25, 09:06 PM
*snip*

Here is my recommended class.

{table]Lvl | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 0 | Wild Shape (Small, 1/day), Sneak Attack 1d6, AC Bonus+0, Track, wild empathy
2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 0 |
3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 1 | Wild Shape (2/day)
4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 1 | Sneak Attack 2d6, Spellcasting
5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 2 | Feral Strike (Magic)
6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 2 | Wild Shape (Tiny-Medium, 3/day), AC Bonus+1
7 | 7 | 5 | 5 | 2 | Feral Strike (Cold Iron, Silver)
8 | 8 | 6 | 6 | 3 | Wild Shape (Tiny-Large, 4/day), Sneak Attack 3d6
9 | 9 | 6 | 6 | 3 | Camouflage
10 | 10 | 7 | 7 | 4 | Wild Shape (Diminutive-Large, 5/day), Feral Strike (Alignment*)
11 | 11 | 7 | 7 | 4 | Scent
12 | 12 | 8 | 8 | 4 | Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, 6/day), Sneak Attack 4d6, AC Bonus+2
13 | 13 | 8 | 8 | 4 | Hide in plain sight
14 | 14 | 9 | 9 | 4 | Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, 7/day)
15 | 15 | 9 | 9 | 5 | Feral Strike (Adamantine)
16 | 16 | 10 | 10 | 5 | Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, Small Magical Beast, 8/day), Sneak Attack 5d6
17 | 17 | 10 | 10 | 5 |
18 | 18 | 11 | 11 | 6 | Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, Small-Medium Magical Beast, 9/day), AC Bonus+3
19 | 19 | 11 | 11 | 6 |
20 | 20 | 12 | 12 | 6 | Wild Shape (Diminutive-Huge, Small-Large Magical Beast, Unlimited/day), Sneak Attack 6d6[/table]

Casts spells as a Ranger, but with full caster level. May choose spells from the Ranger or Druid spell lists.

Please note that I gave the class some abilities as a more reasonable (earlier) level.

Is there any reason you are limiting magical beasts to small-large? Any particular ones you want the character avoiding using - or better yet, any reason you want to allow magical beasts in the first place?

Firstly: I really like what you've done, and I think my friend does as well. We may roll with your idea for the class instead, though it does look more powerful than the basic ranger...

Also, this is our reasoning behind Magical Beasts:

A normal druid gets Elemental shapeshifts, but Elemental didn't seem in tune with the predatory nature of the class we had in mind. We wanted something to replace that, and decided that Magical Beast would serve that purpose well. However, there's a wide variety of potent Magical Beasts, so limiting what size you can use at least narrows the player's selection to something closer to what an Elemental form would allow.

Do you think the above logic is sound? I know this is homebrew, but I'm eager to hear any opinions. Also, are you sure allowing the class to wear Light armor and still get Monk AC bonus is wise, considering that the Ranger's AC wouldn't measure up to a high wisdom character with this class? Again, if this is a martially-inclined class, it needs to be comparable to the other martial classes without outshining them. I, for example, plan on playing a Tactician (Fighter variant) in this campaign, and while my role is partially support, I don't want to be made a fool of, either.

ngilop
2012-12-25, 09:14 PM
remember that as a wild shaped focus druid/ranger/ whatever you are going to be more powerful than other martial based classes in terms of combat capabilities.

erikun
2012-12-25, 09:29 PM
Firstly: I really like what you've done, and I think my friend does as well. We may roll with your idea for the class instead, though it does look more powerful than the basic ranger...

Also, this is our reasoning behind Magical Beasts:

A normal druid gets Elemental shapeshifts, but Elemental didn't seem in tune with the predatory nature of the class we had in mind. We wanted something to replace that, and decided that Magical Beast would serve that purpose well. However, there's a wide variety of potent Magical Beasts, so limiting what size you can use at least narrows the player's selection to something closer to what an Elemental form would allow.

Do you think the above logic is sound? I know this is homebrew, but I'm eager to hear any opinions. Also, are you sure allowing the class to wear Light armor and still get Monk AC bonus is wise, considering that the Ranger's AC wouldn't measure up to a high wisdom character with this class? Again, if this is a martially-inclined class, it needs to be comparable to the other martial classes without outshining them. I, for example, plan on playing a Tactician (Fighter variant) in this campaign, and while my role is partially support, I don't want to be made a fool of, either.
The reason the ranger variant received only small/medium wildshapes was to avoid situations where you'd have someone with full BAB turning into a T-Rex. Such a character really does not need access to magical beasts to function well. I would actually recommend only allowing small/medium wildshape (as the recommended variant) or use only the second wildshape variant I posted. As long as your player doesn't mind losing disguises as an animal, the second is more interesting while not being as strong at the typical wildshape.

As for the second question, WIS to AC isn't going to be that large of a deal. You are probably looking at +6 AC, at best, which is the same as you would get with a magic shield. Remember than my revision is very much not a spellcaster - only 4th level spells at best - and WIS is used for nothing else beyond skills. Keeping it high will not be a priority, and forcing the character to take off armor (which is not only the +4 AC, but also the +5 enhancement and extra abilities) would be throwing away too much for a "front line" fighter.

Meeky
2012-12-25, 09:59 PM
Okay. We've come to a decision based off of the responses from both of you. He's going to use a Ranger variant of the original class (similar to what Erikun suggested), and there will be a second class I'll be working on based off of the Daggerspell Shaper, much as you were discussing, ngilop. Thank you both!

ngilop
2012-12-25, 10:37 PM
Yeah daggerspells shaper will indeed be a hella Prc to turn inot a class, id make it a spontaneous caster based one that prepared as that would be a bit more suited I would think

It be much like a swift blade only istenad of being based around haste your based around turning into a lion and chewing faces off, LOL

Morph Bark
2012-12-26, 06:25 AM
The simple Druid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid) variant from UA/SRD trades wild shape and some other stuff for Monk goodies (and Ranger goodies). If instead of wild shape, you throw out the spellcasting, you're already close to what you want. Then throw out the animal companion and wild shape for the Shapeshifting ACF from PHBII (iirc), as that one gives bigger bonuses to Druids with already good physical stats. Since by now you've thrown out a Druid's Tier 1-ness (by getting rid of spellcasting) and some other good things, you can safely enough add the Rogue's Sneak Attack progression, though I'd take out some of the earlier gained Ranger goodies for that. Throw out all Ranger goodies and add Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat at level 1 if you wish, though with Shapeshifting, you won't really need it.


Aaand only now do I see you posted again in reply to the others and mention Daggerspell Shaper. Yeah, that was one of my first thoughts, mainly discounted because you said the player wanted a mix of all three classes instead of two. Ah well.