Thoughts on D20 Modern and Pathfinder

[Roxxy]

A Pathfinder equivalent of D20 Modern has been brought up more than once on these boards, and, inspired by some pictures like this (http://aspen-nightmare.deviantart.com/favourites/?offset=288#/d42fkvo), this (http://aspen-nightmare.deviantart.com/favourites/#/dofpal), this (http://aspen-nightmare.deviantart.com/favourites/#/d2lo86c), this (http://aspen-nightmare.deviantart.com/favourites/#/d10xxaz), and this (http://aspen-nightmare.deviantart.com/favourites/?offset=72#/daf700), I've done some thinking on what I think would make a good modernized game based off of the Pathfinder system.

If you viewed the pictures I linked to, you have no doubt noticed what they all have in common: an example of magic or a fantasy trope in a modern environment. This brings us to my first thought on a modern Pathfinder: the fact that I think it needs to be a fantasy game. A big part of Pathfinder is the fantasy elements, and I've grown quite fond of them. I want to keep those elements for this project. Personally, I rather like the idea of elves in jeans and t-shirts and wizards keeping their spellbooks on touch screen tablets.

On to the class system, one of the biggest parts of how D20 works. I like the D20 Modern Advanced Class system, but not the basic class system. Rather than have basic classes for each stat, I'd like to go with Warrior, Expert, and Mage. Furthermore, I'd like to have a variety of archetypes for the advanced classes, allowing a large array of customization without having a whole mess of classes.

As for D20 Modern's background system, I'm looking towards a hybridization with the Pathfinder trait system. I'm looking towards making backgrounds a trait category and having players select one trait from each category at character creation. I want to tie class skills to this system rather than classes, so that how you grew up effects what skills you've developed. Each trait would have five associated skills, and you'd pick three from each trait you have.

Combat needs to encourage movement more, perhaps by making Shot on the Run something built into the system. The cover system should encourage players to use it, while allowing for cover to be destroyed or penetrated. Fixed DC reflex saves for explosions and automatic weapons are simply a no-go. They don't keep up with level changes. I'm not sure what to do instead yet, but something different needs to be done.

The biggest thing, however, is that it needs to have it's own campaign setting while being easily modable to a homebrew effort, just like Pathfinder is. You need to be able to pick this up and play it without having to spend forever building your own setting first.

This wasn't a very long OP, as there aren't a giant number of steps necessary here. They are, however, some rather big steps. Still, I think a Pathfinder D20 Modern can be an excellent game rather than aspiring to D20 Modern's mediocrity.

More thoughts, regarding to specific campaign setting details, later.

[ngilop]

Since pathfidner and d20 modern are basically the same rule, im not sure that other than skill differences and cmd/cmb there will not be a huge differnece.


and its own campaign setting.. so yoru doing pf modern but you don't want earth.. I guess thats cool

and uh.. d20 modern is already VERY easy to homebrew for again its d20 based so it won' tbe any easier or harder to hombrew than 3rd or pathfidner is/was.

I hadd cover as Damage absorption ( i.e like you cover behind a door ad you bascially had 5 more HP)

as well as about 1 dozen new weapons, completly different armors

as well as new class bonuses for each of the base d20 modern classes.

aslo.. warrior xpert mage.. in d20 modern.. I guess you are looking for somehting more like shadowrun or world of darkness instead of an actual d20 modern where its a hybrid of everydays tuff and the supernatural?



Id wonder if you ever looked at shadow run ( the elf babe on teh cumpter really strikes me as a shdow run char)

the reason for me why d20 modern crapped out was the suspension of disbleif was too much, no way my soldier coudl take 3 rocket blasts to teh face and lauhg at the measily damage. it did. It went like this rcokets did a toal of 45 damage i had 183 HP...

for my d20 modern games I just did this rule ' you get your die for 1st level as HP, afert that you just get your con modifier" d20 modern was actually the onle rules with d20 where id id point buy so one could not max theri con AS well as their other stats.


WIth everything you are saying, i would really recommend you take a look at shadowrun instead ot trying to do this with a d20 ruleset base or you are going to have a lot fo work on your hands.

and do not be suprised that after( probably) months of work you find that your pathfidner d20 modern looks pretty similar to d20 modern normal.

[Roxxy]

Since pathfidner and d20 modern are basically the same rule, im not sure that other than skill differences and cmd/cmb there will not be a huge differnece.There would be more differences than that. I'm going with a three class basic class system instead of a six class one, and using archetypes for advanced classes heavily. I'm also looking at the combat system, because automatic weapons and explosions are not done well in D20 Modern.


and its own campaign setting.. so yoru doing pf modern but you don't want earth.. I guess thats coolWhat I want to do is imagine what the end result would look like if I were to take an "average" medieval fantasy world and advance it to a modernish tech level over centuries of in-universe technological and social development.


I hadd cover as Damage absorption ( i.e like you cover behind a door ad you bascially had 5 more HP)That could work for some softer covers, but I wouldn't use it for more durable ones.


aslo.. warrior xpert mage.. in d20 modern.. I guess you are looking for somehting more like shadowrun or world of darkness instead of an actual d20 modern where its a hybrid of everydays tuff and the supernatural?I'm looking to inject more D&D/Pathfinder into D20 Modern.




Id wonder if you ever looked at shadow run ( the elf babe on teh cumpter really strikes me as a shdow run char)I've heard of it, but never owned it.


the reason for me why d20 modern crapped out was the suspension of disbleif was too much, no way my soldier coudl take 3 rocket blasts to teh face and lauhg at the measily damage. it did. It went like this rcokets did a toal of 45 damage i had 183 HP...That's why I want to go with Unearthed Arcana's wound/vitality system and apply heavy weapon damage strait to wound points.


WIth everything you are saying, i would really recommend you take a look at shadowrun instead ot trying to do this with a d20 ruleset base or you are going to have a lot fo work on your hands.I don't think it's an insurmountable damage. It's basically keeping systems from D20 Modern that I didn't hate and mixing in the Pathfinder rule changes that I really liked and my own rule ideas, and building a campaign setting.


and do not be suprised that after( probably) months of work you find that your pathfidner d20 modern looks pretty similar to d20 modern normal.3.5 and Pathfinder are pretty similar, and Pathfinder is a pretty positive improvement none-the-less. Same with 3e and 3.5. I don't need it to be radically different, I just need to be an improvement over D20 Modern.

[Roxxy]

I think this statement needs to be singled out, because it summarizes my goals here perfectly:

"What I want to do is imagine what the end result would look like if I were to take an "average" medieval fantasy world and advance it to a modernish tech level over centuries of in-universe technological and social development."

[Tanuki Tales]

and do not be suprised that after( probably) months of work you find that your pathfidner d20 modern looks pretty similar to d20 modern normal.

Maybe in the most strictest of senses.

Pathfinder is removed to a noticeable degree from d20 Modern when you look at them; which only makes sense since one is dubbed as "3.75" and the other is planted firmly in the realm of 3.0 mechanics and mindset.

I look forward to seeing what comes of this project. :smallwink:

[ngilop]

I think this statement needs to be singled out, because it summarizes my goals here perfectly:

"What I want to do is imagine what the end result would look like if I were to take an "average" medieval fantasy world and advance it to a modernish tech level over centuries of in-universe technological and social development."

Hopefully you end up with something like this PLEASE PLEASE! OMG YES (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yeA7a0uS3A) or YES PLEASE! HERES MY MONEY! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR65P73X5GI)

[Milo v3]

Sounds interesting to say the least. You can just do a Modern Pathfinder with reflavouring but it would be best for its own game.

[Roxxy]

Hopefully you end up with something like this PLEASE PLEASE! OMG YES (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yeA7a0uS3A) or YES PLEASE! HERES MY MONEY! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR65P73X5GI)I want to end up more like this (http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/092/a/f/af92a81162f348916e8f8a21bc5c2202.jpg).

[Ashtagon]

d20 Modern had a broader design brief that what you are describing. When you look at the sample campaign settings written for the game (including Dungeon magazine and official supplements), most of them were specifically non-magical.

It definitely did need some fixing in light of 3.5and later developments though. Chiefly, I'd have implemented a more realistic damage system. Perhaps each time you take a massive damage check, you suffer a stacking -2 penalty to all d20 rolls until you get major medical aid, possibly in addition to vitality/wounds.

Making the base classes warrior/expert/mage works for a magical setting, but fails terribly for the non-FX ones (ie most of them). otoh, the ability score-inspired classes were very much breakers of the old suspension of disbelief. I'd probably go for the following base classes:

* academic
* social
* martial
* expert

[Omnicrat]

Are most people not reading that you want a fantasy setting with advanced technology or are they not understanding it? I'm not sure I can help much with rules (don't really know modern [or PF too well for that matter]), but I could definitely help with the culture. Afew things that spring to mind with little thought are:

1) Segregation: This could be outdated, but most likely not. Remember, different races are really different in this world. Segregation need not be evil, and could even be the best option when one child developed over 15 years and the other over 50. Also, presumably each race has a slightly different idea of comfort, so separate sections of a restaurant or different bathrooms might actually be a good thing. The problem would arise if it is forbidden for a member of one race to do certain things members of other races can. For instance, if dwarves were allowed to be soldiers, artisans, or miners, but nothing else.

2) Religion: Are the gods real and known, or is this like Ebberon? If they are real and know, how many of them used to be human, or another common race? I could see a religion devoted to the ascention of as many of its members as possible. Also, I can see governments setting up programs to attempt to ascend loyal citizens and national rulers to become the patron deities of their nations. If their is no ascension, but the gods are still known, then there are most likely no atheists or agnostics. Also, every nation would most likely have a patron deity, even if they allow the worship of others, because why not use that power if you can? If the gods are totally unknown and unknowable (we only know of them through their prophets) then religion would be most like the real world.

3) Government: If their are knowable gods, expect a lot more theocracies than we see in the real world. Also, with the use of magic, you could have direct democracies and electronic voting equivalent long before we could in the real world. I feel like the most common government would be a semi-parlementary system where the house of lords is replaced with the house of magi, but there are bound to be alot of dictatorships, theocracies, and socialist states where magic is provided for free by the government to the people. In other states, material components might be restricted substances, no right to bear magic and whatnot.

4) Nazis: We had them, and a fantasy campaign has a lot more reason to develop this type of philosophy than we ever did. Even if their hayday is gone, ever race will most likely have supremacists and those who desire genocide.

5) Medicine: There would be pretty much no disease in the wealthier nations, and pretty much no unnatural death in the more power theocracies or socialist nations.

6) Charity: Soup kitchens replaced with wands of create food and create water. Maybe some prestidigitation for flavor. Food drives would be pretty unnecessary, since you can just make it. Habitat for humanity would be a bunch or bards with lyres of building. More stuff like this.

That's all for now, but I'm sure I'll have more later. Also, have you considered gramarie?

[Rogue Shadows]

Are most people not reading that you want a fantasy setting with advanced technology or are they not understanding it?

That's not really d20 Modern, though, or rather it's a very narrow scope of what d20 Modern can be.

[Omnicrat]

That's not really d20 Modern, though, or rather it's a very narrow scope of what d20 Modern can be.

I believe that is the OPs point. Just take the stuff they like from modern, mix in some pathfinder and house rules, end up with a modern fantasy setting. I don't think the goal is to update modern to be advanced like how pathfinder is called 3.75, that just seems to be what most people thought and posted about.

[Ashtagon]

oka, serious question:

What you want is essentially the Urban Arcana campaign setting, and only that setting, with Pathfinder updates.

Is there a specific reason it would not be easier and more effective to take PF as the base and just update the equipment lists?

[radmelon]

In regards to how to fix automatic weapons in D20 (and they do need fixing), the quick and dirty way that I figured to do it was to be able to fire in a round as many shots as the weapon's rate of fire, but each attack beyond how many attacks the character would normally get is at a cumulative -2 penalty. Probably not the best way to do it, but I came up with it in like 5 minutes.

[Ashtagon]

In regards to how to fix automatic weapons in D20 (and they do need fixing), the quick and dirty way that I figured to do it was to be able to fire in a round as many shots as the weapon's rate of fire, but each attack beyond how many attacks the character would normally get is at a cumulative -2 penalty. Probably not the best way to do it, but I came up with it in like 5 minutes.

An M16 can do over 650rpm, or 65 shots per round. I don't know about you, but I don't have enough d20s to resolve that conveniently with your mechanic.

Traveller d20 has a nice autofire mechanic, but I am away from books till January.

[Roxxy]

Are most people not reading that you want a fantasy setting with advanced technology or are they not understanding it? I'm not sure I can help much with rules (don't really know modern [or PF too well for that matter]), but I could definitely help with the culture. Afew things that spring to mind with little thought are:

1) Segregation: This could be outdated, but most likely not. Remember, different races are really different in this world. Segregation need not be evil, and could even be the best option when one child developed over 15 years and the other over 50. Also, presumably each race has a slightly different idea of comfort, so separate sections of a restaurant or different bathrooms might actually be a good thing. The problem would arise if it is forbidden for a member of one race to do certain things members of other races can. For instance, if dwarves were allowed to be soldiers, artisans, or miners, but nothing else.I'm thinking voluntary segregation for, as you said, reasons of comfort. There is no law or racist attitude enforcing the existence of segregation, it just happens because everybody in comfortable with their own thing.


2) Religion: Are the gods real and known, or is this like Ebberon? If they are real and know, how many of them used to be human, or another common race? I could see a religion devoted to the ascention of as many of its members as possible. Also, I can see governments setting up programs to attempt to ascend loyal citizens and national rulers to become the patron deities of their nations. If their is no ascension, but the gods are still known, then there are most likely no atheists or agnostics. Also, every nation would most likely have a patron deity, even if they allow the worship of others, because why not use that power if you can? If the gods are totally unknown and unknowable (we only know of them through their prophets) then religion would be most like the real world.The gods are unknown. Clerics (of which Druids are an archetype) get their powers from spirits of the natural world, and these spirits help anyone who honors them properly and don't say much, so religion is very much like it is IRL.


3) Government: If their are knowable gods, expect a lot more theocracies than we see in the real world. Also, with the use of magic, you could have direct democracies and electronic voting equivalent long before we could in the real world. I feel like the most common government would be a semi-parlementary system where the house of lords is replaced with the house of magi, but there are bound to be alot of dictatorships, theocracies, and socialist states where magic is provided for free by the government to the people. In other states, material components might be restricted substances, no right to bear magic and whatnot.I'm going to think on this.


4) Nazis: We had them, and a fantasy campaign has a lot more reason to develop this type of philosophy than we ever did. Even if their hayday is gone, ever race will most likely have supremacists and those who desire genocide.Definitely. There are some pretty unsavory groups like this around, and there have been genocides and terrorist attacks perpetrated in their names. Terrorism (both ethnic and non-ethnic), in fact, is a bigger threat in some first world nations of this world than it is in IRL Europe/America.


5) Medicine: There would be pretty much no disease in the wealthier nations, and pretty much no unnatural death in the more power theocracies or socialist nations.Well, I pulled resurrection magic in exchange for general healing magic being able to be used to bring people to life if it is applied to an unnatural death within a few minutes (think of it like IRL emergency resuscitation), so once you've been dead for more than a few minutes, you stay dead.

Disease, however, is easily cured unless it is of magical origins.


6) Charity: Soup kitchens replaced with wands of create food and create water. Maybe some prestidigitation for flavor. Food drives would be pretty unnecessary, since you can just make it. Habitat for humanity would be a bunch or bards with lyres of building. More stuff like this.It's not universal, but it does exist.


That's all for now, but I'm sure I'll have more later. Also, have you considered gramarie?I haven't had any experience with it.

[Roxxy]

oka, serious question:

What you want is essentially the Urban Arcana campaign setting, and only that setting, with Pathfinder updates.

Is there a specific reason it would not be easier and more effective to take PF as the base and just update the equipment lists?I like some elements of D20 Modern and some of Pathfinder, and I want to use these elements.

[Roxxy]

I believe that is the OPs point. Just take the stuff they like from modern, mix in some pathfinder and house rules, end up with a modern fantasy setting. I don't think the goal is to update modern to be advanced like how pathfinder is called 3.75, that just seems to be what most people thought and posted about.You're right. Thank you.

[Roxxy]

In regards to how to fix automatic weapons in D20 (and they do need fixing), the quick and dirty way that I figured to do it was to be able to fire in a round as many shots as the weapon's rate of fire, but each attack beyond how many attacks the character would normally get is at a cumulative -2 penalty. Probably not the best way to do it, but I came up with it in like 5 minutes.As the poster above stated, it's too many dice rolls. I'm trying as best I can to think of something that will work.

[Rogue Shadows]

An M16 can do over 650rpm, or 65 shots per round. I don't know about you, but I don't have enough d20s to resolve that conveniently with your mechanic.

Well, you will have to reload well before that, anyway: An M16 only holds 30 rounds, if I recall correctly.

[radmelon]

Again, that was a quick fix thought up in 5 minutes. It was meant solely as a way to get around the fact that RAW, most soldiers are apparently incapable of firing a weapon more than once or twice every six seconds without simply spraying wildly.

[Giegue]

I must say, if at all possible I'd LOVE to help on this. I enjoy D20 Modern and I enjoy pathfinder. If you need setting help I'd certainly love to do work on that, I would probably craft an evil corporation(s), at least one of which would be run by a dragon, as a dragon running an evil corporation is the most awesome thing ever.

Anyway....as for the classes and magic, I had an interesting idea for modern magic once. If you have ever seen Naruto D20, my idea was to use a more streamlined, elegant system derived partly from it's jutsu system as magic. In other words a skill-based magic system. I am not sure how exactly how the system would work, and it would need to be different from the clunky, inelegant jutsu system of D20 Naruto, but I like the idea of a skill-based magic system as it allows for ANYBODY to pick up magic, but certain characters to be better at it then others. Under this model the ability score classes can stay in place and you can simply make a "arcane" talent tree for smart heroes, a "divine" talent tree for dedicated heroes and a "magic-blooded" talent tree for charismatic heroes(that makes either arcane or divine magic(player's choice) a cha-based skill for you instead of an int(which would be the default stat for arcane) or wis(default stat for divine)-based skill among other things.

Advance classes would represent specialized practitioners of magic. "wizard" for example could be an advance class focused on using spellbooks and other scholarly methods to boost/aid arcane spellcasting. "Cleric" could be another advance class that represents priests of deities. "Oracle" could be a divine class that could only be entered by charismatic heroes and Sorcerer could be the same for the arcane. The summoner, Magus and other pathfinder archtypes could also be represented with advance classes, as could new, modern-inspired casters.

Of course, a lot of this is random crap that's coming from too much sugar, so take it for what you will.

[toapat]

Well, you will have to reload well before that, anyway: An M16 only holds 30 rounds, if I recall correctly.

7, 10, 20, 27, 30, or 100, depending on Magazine and bore on the AR-15 Receiver. 10, 7, and 20 round clips are actually the most common now.

[Roxxy]

I must say, if at all possible I'd LOVE to help on this. I enjoy D20 Modern and I enjoy pathfinder. If you need setting help I'd certainly love to do work on that, I would probably craft an evil corporation(s), at least one of which would be run by a dragon, as a dragon running an evil corporation is the most awesome thing ever.

Anyway....as for the classes and magic, I had an interesting idea for modern magic once. If you have ever seen Naruto D20, my idea was to use a more streamlined, elegant system derived partly from it's jutsu system as magic. In other words a skill-based magic system. I am not sure how exactly how the system would work, and it would need to be different from the clunky, inelegant jutsu system of D20 Naruto, but I like the idea of a skill-based magic system as it allows for ANYBODY to pick up magic, but certain characters to be better at it then others. Under this model the ability score classes can stay in place and you can simply make a "arcane" talent tree for smart heroes, a "divine" talent tree for dedicated heroes and a "magic-blooded" talent tree for charismatic heroes(that makes either arcane or divine magic(player's choice) a cha-based skill for you instead of an int(which would be the default stat for arcane) or wis(default stat for divine)-based skill among other things.

Advance classes would represent specialized practitioners of magic. "wizard" for example could be an advance class focused on using spellbooks and other scholarly methods to boost/aid arcane spellcasting. "Cleric" could be another advance class that represents priests of deities. "Oracle" could be a divine class that could only be entered by charismatic heroes and Sorcerer could be the same for the arcane. The summoner, Magus and other pathfinder archtypes could also be represented with advance classes, as could new, modern-inspired casters.

Of course, a lot of this is random crap that's coming from too much sugar, so take it for what you will.I've just got a few PDFs from DriveThruRPG on the subject of magic in a modern setting with D20 rules, and I'm going to go through them and make judgements from there. I have also chosen to make Elements of Magic (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/2554/Elements-of-Magic-%28Revised%29?it=1) my spellcasting system.

[Roxxy]

I've been thinking on what exactly I want my world to look like, and I'm stuck on four things:

High Fantasy (As I said, I want a world where a typical Pathfinder setting evolved into a modern tech setting over time)

Space (I like space exploration and space travel. I want it in my setting.)

Modern Technology (Some things are more or less advanced, but for the most part things are pretty modern.)

Retro (I LOVE the look of the 50s and 60s, and I'm a retro-futurism enthusiast. The era's cars were often downright gorgeous, as there was some nice space age art and architecture.)

I'm thinking I can work with all these things. First off, we cement that the high fantasy and modern technology elements exist. From there, we say that the retro-futurist elements I so love are the culture of the era.

What does this mean? Artistically, things look like the 50s and 60s. A lot of clothing fashions are similar to the IRL era, cars are built to this aesthetic, electical appliances have the space age look to them, 50s and 60s style pulp fiction is popular, the music sounds like 50s and 60s music in many ways, and so on. Essentially, the technology is modern, but the aesthetic is retro.

As for space exploration, I would like to posit a nearby planet to the planet this setting inhabits. The climate of this nearby planet is all wrong for humanoid evolution, but it's not unsurvivable to humanoids. It also has some sort of rather desireable resources. With a planet so near that can support a colony without too much effort (you won't need to wear space suits or build bio domes), and with desireable resources there, there will be a LOT more people, resources, and money poured into space travel than there were IRL. With this greatly increased focus on space, space technology will be a lot more advanced than what we have IRL, even if the general tech level is equivalent. As a result, there are colonies on this planet, and there are outposts all over the solar system with quite a bit of space traffic. Space travel outside the solar system has yet to be realized except with uncrewed probes. That said, most people have not gone into space and never will, and space travel is a minor facet of the world in popular perception, even if it is an important part of the world's infrastructure. It's like how we don't think much about civilian sailors IRL. Space is there if you want it for the story, but if you don't want to touch it, you don't have to.

[toapat]

Golaron is actually Inverse fantasy. It was a High fantasy setting, then PCs started showing up.

in Droves.

over time the total amount of magic in the setting will be gone, well before they hit Combustion Engines and Acetylene welding.

Really you want to look at Spelljammer though.

[AttilaTheGeek]

This sounds incredibly awesome. I haven't used D20 modern, but I'm the kind of Pathfinder nerd who reads the SRD when I'm bored, so I know that system just a little bit. I think that, in a world where a Fireball is just as common as an M16, war takes on a different meaning simply because it's so much more deadly than any war Earth's ever had.

Another thing to consider is politics. How would Dominate Person or Detect Thoughts affect what goes on inside Parliament, or in a court? You also need to compare your magic level to your technology level. For example, if a complicated and difficult surgery can be obsoleted by Regenerate or Cure Serious Wounds, there's no need for medicine to progress. The same goes with transportation, because of Teleport and the like.

[Frathe]

While this wouldn't be the best contributor to giving the feel of a modern-day fantasy setting, perhaps the nearby planet, instead of having no humanoids, could have humanoids with somewhat... different biology. They might be vaguely goblinoid, or maybe reptilian, or aberrant (like illithids) to continue the fantasy feel, and then you could have problems with the invasion, discrimination, and their integration into Earth society.

You could also have other aberrations on that planet that posed a threat to the settlers; imagine a pack of otyughs being driven away from the compound by a family of colonists wielding magic and guns with stylized fins. But I realize you might not want to go in that direction.

[Roxxy]

While this wouldn't be the best contributor to giving the feel of a modern-day fantasy setting, perhaps the nearby planet, instead of having no humanoids, could have humanoids with somewhat... different biology. They might be vaguely goblinoid, or maybe reptilian, or aberrant (like illithids) to continue the fantasy feel, and then you could have problems with the invasion, discrimination, and their integration into Earth society.

You could also have other aberrations on that planet that posed a threat to the settlers; imagine a pack of otyughs being driven away from the compound by a family of colonists wielding magic and guns with stylized fins. But I realize you might not want to go in that direction.
I don't want humanoids on this planet other than colonists, but I am making this planet the source of all aberrations, as they evolved there. Stylized fin guns aside, the scenario you mentioned happens quite a bit. Life on this planet is not particularly safe because of all the inhuman monsters around.

[Roxxy]

I've decided to go ahead and work this game to be compatible with both Elements of Magic and standard Vancian casting. That why, I can have my awesome but somewhat uncommon system, and other GMs that don't have it don't absolutely have to have it.

[Roxxy]

This sounds incredibly awesome. I haven't used D20 modern, but I'm the kind of Pathfinder nerd who reads the SRD when I'm bored, so I know that system just a little bit. I think that, in a world where a Fireball is just as common as an M16, war takes on a different meaning simply because it's so much more deadly than any war Earth's ever had.

Another thing to consider is politics. How would Dominate Person or Detect Thoughts affect what goes on inside Parliament, or in a court?If you get away with it, it leads to functional fascism or a guilty person getting free. As a result, wizard guards and anti-magic fields are pretty much par for the course during government functions.


You also need to compare your magic level to your technology level. For example, if a complicated and difficult surgery can be obsoleted by Regenerate or Cure Serious Wounds, there's no need for medicine to progress.My view on this is that spellcasters aren't common enough for magic to replace surgery. If it's available it gets used, but it very often isn't available. Unless you're rich.


The same goes with transportation, because of Teleport and the like.Well, I am rather biased against teleportation in any setting because I just don't like it, so people generally don't teleport in any of my settings.

[Roxxy]

I have some more information from the thread at Paizo:

I am creating an ability called "combat training". If you have this ability, you may use your base attack bonus and class bonuses to armor class. If you do not have this ability, you may not use these things, though you can level up through non-combat tasks. All PCs get "combat training" for free at first level, as this system is for NPCs, not PCs. Basically, it lets NPCs be really good at a few skills without having actual combat skill (even BAB +4 is a bit much for an untrained civilian).

The Gods created spirits as sources of power, creating complex rituals that you have to use to get that power from the spirits. This allowed the Gods to control who could have divine magic, as they placed a mental block on people's ability to share knowledge of the rituals with others, meaning in order to learn divine magic a god had to teach you. However, when the gods adopted their hands-off approach, they stopped sharing the rituals. The mental block on people sharing them died out at the same time, but most people didn't know it had died out, so most Clerics died without sharing their secrets. Some Clerics, however, did find out that it had died out and wrote down the rituals or shared them verbally. This means that, while knowledge of the rituals is very rare, it does exist, and if you can find it you can learn the rituals and get divine magic.

A have a second idea for magic: there is a rare talent that people can be born with or that can manifest later in life that allows them to understand how spells are cast. This talent in and of itself does not let you cast spells, but it does let you be a Wizard or divine caster (they get the talent free at their first class level). If you don't have the talent, you can't learn how spells are cast. You can see the effects, but you can't understand how it was done.

Sorcerers do not have this talent. They cast their spells through instinct, and gain their power through a bloodline that contains a source of magic such as a dragon, so they don't need the talent. This does mean, however, that they can't learn spells through study and have fewer spells. They are very good at metamagic, as they can reshape spells through simple instinct instead of studying how to do so. The thing about Sorcerers is that they do not understand how they do what they do. It just comes naturally to them.



On to the subject of Orcs.

I think I'll start with something similar to Golarion for familiarity. As Human, Elven, and Dwarven technology gets more and more advanced, Orcs will have a hard time keeping up. Firearms technology, even smoothbore muskets, is not easy for a primitive culture with limited industry to replicate. Gunpower can be especially difficult to make. Orcs would most likely have to steal guns and powder or trade for them (and sources to trade with would most likely be limited to criminals and people who want Orcs to shoot at their rivals), so supplies would be limited. The armament gap will get larger and larger, until the battles against this brute savages that have plagued people so long end with most Orc warriors dead and the strongholds burned, and the survivors in the custody of Humans, Elves, and Dwarves. I'd think it more likely that these Orcs be either forcibly civilized or put to servitude (or put to "civilizing servitude" a la a certain large ethnic group's actions toward another certain large ethnic group IRL), and over time I could see Orc society losing it's brutality and assimilating into Human culture.

Honestly, this is the only option I see other than extinction. Orcs as written in Golarion pose a sizeable threat to humanity, and if Humans have a big enough technological edge, they will seek to end their problems with Orcs once and for all, and they will win. It's either wreck the society and kill everyone or wreck the society and try to civilize what's left.

Also, an Orc drill instructor would be cool. What better way to scare the crap out of a busload of fresh military recruits than an Orcish version of Gunnery Sergeant Hartman?