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View Full Version : Bring me your unusual, bizarre and exotic weapons.



TheThan
2012-12-26, 01:39 PM
So I find myself working on some homebrew work dealing with weapons. While dnd 3.5 deals with quite a few weapons, I find that it is sourly lacking in the really unique and interesting weapons. I want to start stating out weapons that I donít believe exist in dnd (dnd 3.5 specifically) already. What I donít want is a lot of different versions of what amounts to the same weapon. I donít feel thereís enough of a difference between a saber, scimitar, talwar, shamshir, and pulwar to really warrant three different new swords, when the scimitar is already covered in the PHB, and by extension all those others are too. Iím looking for weapons that donít already have an analog in dnd already, and are quite a bit more unique. (yes I'm already diging through my resources collecting all the various weapons spread throughout them into one place.)

Hereís what I've come up with so far:

Sheppardís staff (quarter staff with a hook on the end, good for tripping)
Jo/ baton (your basic stick, not quite a club)
Sarong (more than just an article of clothing)
Urumi (Indian steel whip, much less stupid than a whip dagger)
meteor hammer (apparently the rope dart already exists)
Yawara/ Kubaton
Shillelagh/cudgel (ye wouldnít deprive me oí my walking stick would yah?)

Volthawk
2012-12-26, 02:33 PM
This might give you some ideas: Measure of a Man Redux (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149336)

kieza
2012-12-26, 07:24 PM
These weapons are written for 4e, but can probably be adapted for 3.5:

Lance (which 4e doesn't have): Military Spear/Polearm, +2 prof, 1d12 damage, Reach, Cavalry (Cavalry is a new quality: the weapon loses its proficiency bonus when you aren't mounted.)

Cavalry Saber: Military Heavy Blade, +3 prof, 1d10 damage, Cavalry, Versatile

Elven Longbow: Exotic Bow, +3 prof, 1d10 damage, Range 25/50, Load Free

Lucid
2012-12-26, 08:08 PM
Well, some of those you mention are already statted out in various books.
The urumi can be found in Secrets of Sarlona(SoS), it works the same as the spiked chain in that it is a reach weapon that can hit adjacent foes. The book also has a monk's spade and some other eastern weapons.
The meteor hammer is also statted, though I can't recall which book. (possibly OA?)
A shillelagh would just be a club I guess, though SoS also has a walking stick as a weapon.

Xuc Xac
2012-12-26, 08:38 PM
You think there's no difference between a saber, scimitar, talwar, shamshir, and pulwar to justify different stats but you want different stats for club, jo, and shillelagh?

Chilingsworth
2012-12-26, 08:52 PM
There's a truncheon (aka a baton) statted out in the BOED. It's just a 1d8 sap. I think BOED also has something like a shepard's staff, though I think it's called something different.

Xefas
2012-12-26, 09:19 PM
Let us not forget the Hung Gar Fighting Bench. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rl3o4hqT9w)

Is that just a homeless man in the park? Or a dangerously armed Drunken Master?

TheThan
2012-12-26, 10:47 PM
You think there's no difference between a saber, scimitar, talwar, shamshir, and pulwar to justify different stats but you want different stats for club, jo, and shillelagh?


Really the difference between the first 4 is pretty insubstantial.
see for yourself.



This is a pulwar
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/TheThan/ph-0.jpg

This is a scimitar
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/TheThan/scimitarjpg.jpg

This is a samshir
[url=]http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/TheThan/shamshir-88sts.jpg

This is a talwar
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/TheThan/Talwar_Hind_SXVII.jpg


This is a bit more of a fantasy style scimitar
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/TheThan/Scimitar.jpg

And this one is more pure fantasy
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/TheThan/ArabicScimitar.jpg


Where as there is an obvious difference between a club, Jo, and shillelagh


this is a club
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/TheThan/a20791f138bd8c8acdea9_m.jpg

this is A jo
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/TheThan/Ash-Wood-Jo1.jpg

And this is a Shillelah (well ok, several)
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/TheThan/Assorted_shillelagh.jpg


now I'm not saying there aren't differences. I'm saying there aren't enough of a difference between them. Its why i don't have Gun (staff), Bo (staff), and quarterstaff (staff). They're all basically the same. I'm looking for weapons that people can actually tell the difference.

Arbane
2012-12-27, 12:40 AM
Battle Yo-Yo
Jump-rope
Gnomish combat wrench
Dwarf Bread
Fancy Santa
Dual-wielded bowling balls
Bucket of eels
Frozen leg of lamb
supercooled icicle
chainsaw
shopping basket
shopping cart
stepladder
whisky bottle
drill

arguskos
2012-12-27, 12:45 AM
This might give you some ideas: Measure of a Man Redux (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149336)
Volthawk, I love you sir. I was actually coming in here just to post that and boast a little only to find that someone else beat me to it! :smallbiggrin: Thank you, I'm honored.

awa
2012-12-27, 01:01 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deer_Horn_Knives

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pata_%28sword%29

weapon and image
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madu
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nouprOuzjXU/TS44778zrTI/AAAAAAAAAlA/3TAk3FodnMQ/s1600/shield_Indian_Madu.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoketsu-shoge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisca (different from normal hand axes becuase they bounce)

Felandria
2012-12-27, 02:32 AM
Steve the battle axe.

One of my previous characters was a cleric who worshipped a battle axe named Steve, the cleric would go from inn to inn putting the Book Of Steve in every room.

The DM liked the idea enough to make it true, she made it an intelligent item, it could cast fireball, Major Image and Cure Mod Wounds.

And it talked, only to me at first, but eventually to the whole party.

And I was still the sanest member of the party.

Ashtagon
2012-12-27, 02:58 AM
Just google for medieval chinese weapons.

scarmiglionne4
2012-12-27, 04:17 AM
I have notes on a more mundane version of Strider Hiryu's Cypher sword somewhere in my D&D 3e notebook. If you are not familiar with it it is essentially a tonfa-sword.

I believe it was capable of making a second attack as part of a full-attack action at a -4 penalty to the attack roll. It could be used with weapon finesse.

Excession
2012-12-27, 05:16 AM
Lance (which 4e doesn't have): Military Spear/Polearm, +2 prof, 1d12 damage, Reach, Cavalry (Cavalry is a new quality: the weapon loses its proficiency bonus when you aren't mounted.)
A lance was included in Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium:

+2 prof, 1d10 damage, Spear, small, versatile, mounted.

Their "mounted" keyword means a -2 to attacks when not mounted, and an extra 1[W] damage when charging while mounted. I think I prefer your version. Charging doesn't need to be better, and reach seems right. Though maybe a one handed reach weapon with a 1d12 die is a bit too tempting in everyday use even with a -2 penalty.

Dave Halfbreed
2012-12-27, 10:08 AM
This is the really fun part of anthropology-the beautiful toys :)

Seconding the medieval Indian weapons. Pata, Urumi, Bagh Nakh, Madu, Khanda, and such.

Also-

Hungamunga/Kpinga-Very big throwing knife with multiple blades so that you don't have to worry about which end hits first. Common weapon across the Sudanic belt.

"Gunstock" club-American war club used from the Alleghenies to the Rockies. Featured in "Last of the Mohicans" and now has a Cold Steel version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtqOiKUcT_Q


Some cool Polynesian weapons:
Taiaha-Maori battle staff/club/spear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofybOAqLWZM Sacred weapon of chiefs and professional warriors. Quite possibly my favorite weapon.

Patu: Another Maori signature weapon. Wood, bone, or stone club/knife used for both hacking and stabbing, usually at the head or ribcage. Jade ones are called Mere and associated with the chiefs of the South Island. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy9JiHZ-028

Leiomano-Hawaiian sharktoothed short sword. A hardwood paddle or stick lined with shark teeth (tiger sharks are preferred since their serrated teeth are sturdier and slightly rounded, and their flat bases allow for easier tying to the wood). Used for slashing at tendons and arteries. The Leiomano itself is Hawaiian, but similar weapons are used also in Kiribati (either as curved short swords or long tridents and glaives) and other Polynesian cultures. The Hawaiians put a marlin bill on the pommel or sharpened it into a blade for stabbing

Pahoa-Hawaiian long dagger. Hardwood sharpened at one end for stabbing, rounded at the other for clubbing, and with a chord in the middle for grappling and strangling.

Pikoi-Basically a Hawaiian manriki-long chord tied to an oblong stone or piece of hardwood. Used as a flail, snare and tripping weapon, and used to strange or club at close quarters.

Nifo Oti-Samoan wooden knife. One side has wooden serrations, and the other a hook at the tip. Now adopted as a dance knife and made from metal blades.

Fa'alaufa'i-Samoan club with many pairs of lateral projections either as widely spaced spikes or close-carved serrations, and a pointed head.

Totokia-Fijian spiked mace that's better known for being half of a Tusken Raider's gaffi stick. Can count either as a mace or a war pick-long shaft that curves into a large head pointing perpendicular to the shaft and tipped with a sharp spike.

+assorted maces, truncheons, long clubs, harpoons, throwing maces, etc.

Fun variations on the whip

-Buntot Pagi, made from a Stingray's tail. That means denticles and tail spine to give it a nasty bite. From the Philippines

-Sjambok, made from hippo or rhino hide. Semi-stiffened and originally used to drive cattle and slaves. From South and East Africa

-Nagyka, braided leather with a metal tip. A horsewhip that also doubles as a wolf-killer for hunting. From the Nogai and Cossacks

-Jiebian-spiked chain without the spikes. Steel rods linked by small rings and tipped by a sharp dart. Originated as either a cavalry flail or an assassin's hidden weapon, adopted by some schools of warrior monks, and now part of Wushu. Either seven sections (Qijiebian) or nine sections (Jiuejiebian)

By the way, are there stats for oars as improvised weapons?

Yora
2012-12-27, 12:04 PM
Falcata. An incorrect but good term to visualize them would be "cleaver sword".

I've read some (unsourced) claims that in handles like a hybrid between a sword and an axe.
http://www.globaleffects.com/C_pages/Rental/Props/Weapons/Period/Swords/Steel/FalcataStuntSet_hi.jpg

The same principle is used in the Khopesh.
http://1501bc.com/files/03280001.jpg

The mechanical properties are also used by the falx:
http://i1.ifrm.com/2279/116/upload/p6978626.jpg

All these weapons are reported to be very effective at vleaving through shields and armor.

Spiryt
2012-12-27, 12:14 PM
Well, I'm pretty sure that vast majority of khopesh had the edge on convex sides, so there weren't really following the same principle as falcata/machaira. :smallwink:

Friv
2012-12-27, 01:29 PM
I've always been a fan of the kusarigama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusari-gama), although statting it would presumably just be as easy as making a double-weapon chain and sickle.

Ashtagon
2012-12-27, 01:29 PM
Well, I'm pretty sure that vast majority of khopesh had the edge on convex sides, so there weren't really following the same principle as falcata/machaira. :smallwink:

I think the principle at work isn't convex vs. concave, but rather whether the cutting edge is ahead of a simple "virtual arm extension" or not.

Spiryt
2012-12-27, 01:44 PM
I think the principle at work isn't convex vs. concave, but rather whether the cutting edge is ahead of a simple "virtual arm extension" or not.

Well, being 'virtual arm extension" anyway depends mainly on hold, wrist/elbow positions etc. depending on weapons of different curvature will become 'extension' anyway.

And anyway, in case of most falcatas/machairas, like those posted, blades deviation from imaginary 'straight line from the hilt" isn't really all that great, if any at all.

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4080/4892048188_27b39a0223_z.jpg

I think that the simplest common feature of such weapons is that let's call : "striking part" of the blade is quite strongly developed, and easily spotted on the blade.

Anyway, late medieval dueling shields are without doubt funky...

http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1334/19/1334194223590.jpg

http://flaez.ch/talhoffer/img/097v.jpg

Vaz
2012-12-27, 10:41 PM
Anything in Dynasty Warriors.

Bladed Canoe, Bladed Yo Yo, Gatling Gun/Rocket Launcher, Dual Bladed Tonfa, Bladed Fans the size of a human, Magic Laser Shooting Feather Fans, Swords the size of a bull elephant...

Averis Vol
2012-12-28, 12:31 AM
What about that funky blade from star trek? I don't have a clue what its called, and I've only seen it in parodies of the show, but the weapon always gave me a good laugh.

This thing:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTDDEueX2xEM4dildhGmsZ63dy4GNn82 PqXU92v8A8nVvdIM4jbLw

SgtCarnage92
2012-12-28, 04:32 AM
What about that funky blade from star trek? I don't have a clue what its called, and I've only seen it in parodies of the show, but the weapon always gave me a good laugh.

This thing:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTDDEueX2xEM4dildhGmsZ63dy4GNn82 PqXU92v8A8nVvdIM4jbLw

Bat'leth. Totally impractical, but amusing nonetheless.

Doorhandle
2012-12-28, 07:52 AM
Ultimate combat/pathfinder had a few groups of unusual weapons: Like foreign weapons, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/eastern-weapons) gladiator weapons (mixed with normal weapons here) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons), and primal (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/stone-age-weapons) weapons. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/bronze-age-weapons)

They also have pretty neat rules for firearms, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/firearms) even if the ammo is really expensive, and good rules for siege equipment too. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/siege-engines)


Anything in Dynasty Warriors.

Bladed Canoe, Bladed Yo Yo, Gatling Gun/Rocket Launcher, Dual Bladed Tonfa, Bladed Fans the size of a human, Magic Laser Shooting Feather Fans, Swords the size of a bull elephant...

Segoku basara too. Prisoner's ball and chain, a cookpot, a cannot 3 times larger than the man firing it, huge ****-off rocks, an anchor, a melee-chakram, swords that should not fit within their own sheathes, and freaking PRAYER BEADS.

Also adds improbable use of weapons, like "3 swords in each hand" "dual-weilding polearms" and "throwing your sheath at people."

Raimun
2012-12-28, 08:36 AM
Pistol Sword. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol_sword) Yes, it was an actual thing, outside of Final Fantasy VIII but it saw little use. In real world both aiming with the thing and swinging it would be hard because in both cases there's extra weight, from the sword-part and the pistol part, respectively. Also, I'm not sure if it's all that sturdy.
Then again, the weapon would be perfectly fine in DnD as an Exotic Weapon, with no drawbacks after the Feat is spent. Just not in every setting.

It would be a weapon that can be used as either as a Long Sword or a Pistol (from DMG).
Perhaps it could have a special rule where you can fire the pistol at the same time you stab (Ie. do Piercing Damage to) someone? The pistol has one shot (unless it's more Modern weapon like revolver or semi-auto) and if you make a Piercing melee attack with the sword, you can also make an attack roll with the pistol, with same attack bonuses. If you make a confirmed crit with the stab, the shot hits automatically.


On an unrelated note, I think the bladed shield is really cool. It's a shield... that's also an axe! If I understand it correctly it would be TWF+Sword and Board. You get to attack with the shield and sword and also add the shield bonus to AC. That's an awesome fighting style.
I don't even like shields at all, since I think they're a bit... cowardly? So if you can make me think a shield is awesome, that's really... Shieldtastic!

awa
2012-12-28, 11:55 AM
cowardly seems a really odd word to describe a shield.

As far as i can tell shields are one of the most commonly used tools of war pre gun you can get

Averis Vol
2012-12-28, 01:12 PM
I can see where he is coming from with that train of thought. In my experience using a polearm or a longsword (Hand and a half, bastard sword, whatever you prefer) you need to use a lot more awareness, whereas when I use a shield theres a lot less strain as I have the right half of my body covered in a wall of wood and steel and I'm more open to focus on my target.

Now granted, I don't exactly agree with that philosophy, but I can see where he's coming from if I follow his train of thought correctly. Or I could be swinging wide to left field here.

TheThan
2012-12-28, 01:23 PM
Actually, shields are really awesome:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkhpqAGdZPc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ygRholyh5g

Anyway thanks for all the suggestions so far everyone. I appreciate it.

Raimun
2012-12-28, 02:15 PM
It's just that I never use shields in RPGs. I could list a few of my thoughts on the matter:

1. Good offense is the best defense. You can deal more damage with a two handed weapon or a weapon in each hand.
2. Shield usage is not heroic and dashing. Imagine if the jedi used shields with their lightsabers. They don't need extra defense, so neither do I. Also, it's good to have a free hand.
3. I don't like the visual aspect or the image of a shield. They are bulky boards used to hide behind.
4. I've trained with a two handed and one handed sword, with no shield. It's easier to imagine a fighting style you are familiar with.
5. I never needed a shield and could defeat all shield users I faced in mock battles fought with soft LARP-weapons. They sure relied on their shields to win their fights for them. I didn't see the point back then and I don't see it now. :smalltongue:

Spiryt
2012-12-28, 02:44 PM
That entirely depends on what you're trying to imagine.

In most RPGs, it works just as well.

In actual reality, or more 'realistic' RPG, shields are neither cowardly, "bulky boards to hide behind" nor combat has anything to do with LARPS.

Instead shields were pretty much basic and ubiquitous mean of fighting since most of human recorded history.

Mono Vertigo
2012-12-28, 02:50 PM
Dwarf Bread

That's all.

Raimun
2012-12-28, 03:21 PM
That entirely depends on what you're trying to imagine.

In most RPGs, it works just as well.

In actual reality, or more 'realistic' RPG, shields are neither cowardly, "bulky boards to hide behind" nor combat has anything to do with LARPS.

Instead shields were pretty much basic and ubiquitous mean of fighting since most of human recorded history.

Yes, LARP-fights are not accurate but the ones I fought were full contact and you could swing your weapon as fast as you could because all weapons used were soft and didn't injure you. Sure, the weight of the weapons was off and the damage rules weren't completely accurate (solid hit to torso: dead, solid hit to limb: can't use it, head:no effect, so don't aim to it) but I think it's good enough if you want to avoid actual bloodshed. It was still about reaction speed and instinct. Sword fighting principles worked there. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck but is actually a goose, it still makes as good meal.

Also, even in 'realistic' RPGs or reality, I wouldn't pick a shield, if I could have a two handed sword... unless there were a lot of archers on the other side. :smalltongue:
Reach is just that good, just like TheThan's first shield-fighting video showed us. As is more strength. :smallamused:

endoperez
2012-12-28, 03:22 PM
Dueling shield: an oblong, shield usable in one or two hands, with spikes all around. Gives you a bonus for not moving outside of your 5-foot-square

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9VG4ClQcJk

You already know meteor hammer, but here's a video any way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLoE6zTZyyU


Star Trek Bat'leth
you could also call is "Sun Moon Kin Quan Dao" like the gentleman in this video does. I don't know what his deal is, but he does lots of martial arts and seems to have enough money around that he can order custom weapons based on (I believe) his own designs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-UVcI_uaxI


Killing Pen of the Hell Judge, which actually is more or less a masterwork "plank with a nail through it".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEQHBv_Q3cE


"Gold hard ring" - like a blunt chakram with some weight in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMG-b_dfdns


Heaven and earth rings - the above blunt ring as a light weapon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pac9FEVJ5FI


Wolf teeth staff - it's one of those weird fantasy weapons with too many spikes except that it existed in medieval China:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCVhIYE00_s


"crutch jian", or a sword that slashes when it's thrusting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl5xteB_Mfg



Or just check Google book preview on "Ancient Chinese Weapons: The Martial Arts Guide" by Jwing-Ming Yang

http://books.google.be/books?id=SBENHIwJshMC&printsec=frontcover

The illustrations aren't that aesthetically pleasing, but some of the weapons are SO WEIRD. For example, check out page 37 for weaponized rakes. I mean, you could pick one of the weirder drawings and show it to your players and they'd have a hard time believing you didn't just come up with it yourself.

Elderand
2012-12-28, 03:27 PM
Insert Obligatory swordchuck reference here

awa
2012-12-28, 05:34 PM
when arrows start flying you want a shield.

In real life most combatants did not have heavy armor so a two handed weapon is over kill (unless its some kind of pike or other pole arm)

in regards to shields not being dashing that's certainly a fair opinion most dashing combat is not particularly realistic.

if your looking at a shield at just a wall you hide behind you haven't seen/ read the right things. It's a wall you hide behind that sometimes jumps forward and breaks the other guy face.

now in rpgs it's often a poor choice but that's a problem with rpgs not shields

Raimun
2012-12-28, 07:28 PM
when arrows start flying you want a shield.

In real life most combatants did not have heavy armor so a two handed weapon is over kill (unless its some kind of pike or other pole arm)

in regards to shields not being dashing that's certainly a fair opinion most dashing combat is not particularly realistic.


Hmm, you make reasonable points. Therefore, I shall ignore them. :smalltongue:

TuggyNE
2012-12-28, 09:18 PM
Hmm, you make reasonable points. Therefore, I shall ignore them. :smalltongue:

I'm trying to figure out if I should sig this anonymously as an expression of common forum practice. :smalltongue:

awa
2012-12-28, 09:42 PM
yeah i made a reasonable point the internet has validated my existence:tongue:

Deepbluediver
2012-12-28, 10:17 PM
The meteor hammer is also statted, though I can't recall which book. (possibly OA?)

The Meteor Hammer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_hammer) is like the bastard-offspring of a threesome between a whip, a dire flail, and some nunchucks. Like most exotic weapons, the stats given did not reflect it's coolness or balance the cost of spending a feat.

I'll try to see if I can dig up the official version, if only for the sake of argument; I think there where a bunch of odd exotic weapons in Complete Warrior.


IMO, if you are going to be statting out exotic weapons, then the ideal version are weapons that can do something no other weapon normally allows that is more than just a bump up in damage or crit rating.

awa
2012-12-28, 10:28 PM
i think it's in pathfinder i almost positive oriental adventures does not have it

GnomeGninjas
2012-12-28, 10:36 PM
Kusari-fundo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusari-fundo). Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

Q. Flestrin
2012-12-29, 07:54 AM
A few years ago I made some pretty interesting weapons all by myself for one of my campaign settings...
*runs off to find old binder*
Alas and alack, I forgot to give the weapons weights. Oh well. (And the damage is for Medium weapons.)

Simple:
Ursalinu war-hoe: the ursalinu were a race of very militant bear people, and made some use of conscripts. While they had natural claws, they needed a good simple weapon that dealt slashing damage, and lo and behold, the war-hoe emerged. 4 gp, double weapon, 1d6 bludgeoning or slashing/1d6 bludgeoning.

Slingshot: I think I invented this for a race of halflings with enormous hair that resembled grass that they used to hide in the plains they lived in. Essentially, it's a two-handed sling dealing 1d6 damage and has a range of 75 ft. And costs 1 gp.

Exotic:
Lasso: because really, you need lassos. These were invented for my dashing, swashbuckling, airship-flying, ceremonially tattooed mountain elves. 1 gp, no damage, 15 ft. reach, two-handed, otherwise a net.

Mantis sword: invented for a North African-y plutocracy that made heavy use of vermin as mounts. It cost 75 gp, dealt 1d4+1d6 slashing and piercing damage, and had a variable shape: it could either have no reach and be used to initiate grapples, or ten-foot reach and not be used to initiate grapples. And it's one-handed. Yeah, I know, totally unbalanced.

Xuc Xac
2012-12-29, 09:12 AM
Mantis sword: invented for a North African-y plutocracy that made heavy use of vermin as mounts. It cost 75 gp, dealt 1d4+1d6 slashing and piercing damage, and had a variable shape: it could either have no reach and be used to initiate grapples, or ten-foot reach and not be used to initiate grapples. And it's one-handed. Yeah, I know, totally unbalanced.

What does it look like? Why can it do those things?

Dave Halfbreed
2012-12-29, 11:22 AM
Dueling shield: an oblong, shield usable in one or two hands, with spikes all around. Gives you a bonus for not moving outside of your 5-foot-square

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9VG4ClQcJk

You already know meteor hammer, but here's a video any way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLoE6zTZyyU


Star Trek Bat'leth
you could also call is "Sun Moon Kin Quan Dao" like the gentleman in this video does. I don't know what his deal is, but he does lots of martial arts and seems to have enough money around that he can order custom weapons based on (I believe) his own designs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-UVcI_uaxI


Killing Pen of the Hell Judge, which actually is more or less a masterwork "plank with a nail through it".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEQHBv_Q3cE


"Gold hard ring" - like a blunt chakram with some weight in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMG-b_dfdns


Heaven and earth rings - the above blunt ring as a light weapon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pac9FEVJ5FI


Wolf teeth staff - it's one of those weird fantasy weapons with too many spikes except that it existed in medieval China:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCVhIYE00_s


"crutch jian", or a sword that slashes when it's thrusting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl5xteB_Mfg



Or just check Google book preview on "Ancient Chinese Weapons: The Martial Arts Guide" by Jwing-Ming Yang

http://books.google.be/books?id=SBENHIwJshMC&printsec=frontcover

The illustrations aren't that aesthetically pleasing, but some of the weapons are SO WEIRD. For example, check out page 37 for weaponized rakes. I mean, you could pick one of the weirder drawings and show it to your players and they'd have a hard time believing you didn't just come up with it yourself.

I got that book from the library last month, and loved it. China and India are THE sources for a wide variety of fun, crazy, scary weapons. Fei zhua anyone?

Also joining in on the love of shields. Sword and shield combo is just awesome.


Falcata. An incorrect but good term to visualize them would be "cleaver sword".

I've read some (unsourced) claims that in handles like a hybrid between a sword and an axe.
http://www.globaleffects.com/C_pages/Rental/Props/Weapons/Period/Swords/Steel/FalcataStuntSet_hi.jpg

The same principle is used in the Khopesh.
http://1501bc.com/files/03280001.jpg

The mechanical properties are also used by the falx:
http://i1.ifrm.com/2279/116/upload/p6978626.jpg

All these weapons are reported to be very effective at vleaving through shields and armor.


The Falcata (Spanish)and Khopesh (Mesopotamian) are part of a whole badass family with the Kopis (father of the Falcata or merely an uncle?), Kukhri (and its giant cousin the Kora), Yataghan (Turkish. Not sure where it comes from), and Ajanta (and its progeny the Sosun Pattah)

Q. Flestrin
2012-12-31, 06:23 AM
What does [the mantis sword] look like? Why can it do those things?

It looks like a bastard sword-length sword with little triangular spikes projecting all along the blade. It also has a hinged blade on top, a bit longer than a shortsword, with triangular spikes. By flicking a catch on the hilt, you can extend the top, shorter blade so that the sword is about eight feet long, giving you reach; or you can make the blade loose, enabling you to catch people in the crook.

Guizonde
2013-01-01, 11:54 AM
have you thought about using masonry? from experience, support beams, cinder blocks, doors, benches (not as cool as that guy in the vid though), and even a barkeep are both useful and fun.

while we're at it, why not brooms and barstools? or steel rods?

TheThan
2013-01-02, 03:38 AM
In addition to what Iíve got listed in the OP. now Iím going to add these weapons to my list of weird, exotic and otherwise bizarre weapons. A lot of these are already stated out, so Iím simply compiling a list. While others Iím going to have to make up as I go.

Maul
Jitte
Tonfa
Three sectioned staff
Khopesh
Butterfly swords
Sword cane
Pike
Sasumata
Lajatang
Mancatcher
Sang kauw
Naginata
Poleaxe
Warflail

Hand claws
War fan
Goad
Knuckle duster
Orc shotput
Chakram
Blow gun
Greater blowgun
Boomerang
Atlatl
Deer horn knives
Falcate
Batíleth ( i really need to rename it this)
War cleaver
Dueling shields
Hooked swords
Wind and fire wheels

War cleaver- a moderately long but wide sword with a flat ďtipĒ and a chiseled edge on three sides.
Warflail- Basically a flail on the end of a staff.
Wind and fire wheels- Hula hoop sized circular blades. Think Tira (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tira_%28Soulcalibur%29) from soul Soulcalibur III.



As far as random items being used as weapons. I'm going to simply use the improvised weapons rules, as i don't want to stat out every possible item that could ever be used to hurt someone. I'm looking for items that are specifically weapons. But thanks so far, I'm happy with how this is progressing.

Guizonde
2013-01-03, 06:59 AM
too true for improvised weapons. i was thinking about a guy roleplaying a tavern brawler with weapon proficiency (barstool), thus the possible need of a profile. (i'm not a real dm yet...)

what of purely defensive measure? land-mines, caltrops, razorwire, punji pits? bag of snakes? heck, even greek fire with a fuse?

prufock
2013-01-03, 09:47 AM
My DM once let me combine the tripping and disarming abilities of the guisarme and ranseur into one weapon, paying the cost of both +50%. I called it the Geyser.

Has anyone mentioned a ballistic knife?

RustyController
2016-09-23, 12:07 AM
I got a few good ones, gimme a sec (posting so i can hit my 10th post and post links, bare with me)

RustyController
2016-09-23, 12:09 AM
Lets seee...

Old germanic executioners swords are fun, i give them a huge coup de grace bonus vs knocked over enemies (◊5) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executioner%27s_sword

One time i used an anchor for a ship as a hammer/meteor hammer (i was a half giant half dragon)

Oh the shasqua!

https://youtu.be/Avprmm0I3aE

On one occaison (as per the one guy who said masonry) a friend of mine had a giant marble pillar refitted to work as a giant club (monks are scary fyi, he regularly TKOed people with 12d8 rolls)

Anvil warhammer

One time i played a ninja and all he had was a stack of papers, he used his ki to make the paoer act like steel and origami folded all his weapons, from shurikens to katanas and all that

Cant think of many more

Braininthejar2
2016-09-23, 12:45 AM
1 Weighted sleeve cuffs, used in some martial arts

2 A staff with one end hallow - when you smash with it, it breaks, covering your target with quicklime, or something similar. (obviously, a ninja weapon)

3 koncerz
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Koncerz.png

Apparently you use it from a horse, holding it in reverse grip and stabbing down at people as you ride by.

4 shepard's axe, a walking stick with a nasty bite.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Klimek3.jpg/220px-Klimek3.jpg

Yora
2016-09-23, 05:27 AM
3 koncerz
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Koncerz.png

Apparently you use it from a horse, holding it in reverse grip and stabbing down at people as you ride by.

The hilt says fencing grip. And underhand stab from a charging horse would be difficult enough even without such a long blade. At this length I think it would be impossible, unless you're maybe riding a camel or elephant.

TeChameleon
2016-09-23, 06:16 AM
If you care, the three-section staff was originally called the Sansetsukon (Japanese) or Sanjiegun (Chinese). Pity... was going to mention the Atlatl and Chakram also, but you've got 'em already.

One that you don't have (and a quick scan of your list didn't show any obvious clones) would be the Zanbato- the horse-slaying sword, for when you really want to overcompensate :smallamused:

Fri
2016-09-23, 06:57 AM
Not sure if this is considered different enough than normal knife for your purpose but, what about karambit?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karambit

From what I've seen how it's used in movies, it's apparently used in even more close quarter than knives. I mean, I never personally used them obviously, not sure how to explain it but from what I've seen in movies it's almost used as a very fist-attachment way.

(I think it's better if I actually show what I mean)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uowzCtxyNkE&t=3m40s

Storm_Of_Snow
2016-09-23, 06:58 AM
too true for improvised weapons. i was thinking about a guy roleplaying a tavern brawler with weapon proficiency (barstool), thus the possible need of a profile. (i'm not a real dm yet...)

One possible fighting style would be what Nick Frost's character does in The World's End (the fight sequence in The Beehive pub). :smallamused:

What about the Kukri? And is the Tomahawk in the list?

Friv
2016-09-23, 09:30 AM
Not sure if this is considered different enough than normal knife for your purpose but, what about karambit?

Since this is a three-year-old thread necro, the original purpose has probably served its... purpose...

Dammit.

Yora
2016-09-23, 01:20 PM
I think one of the weirdest weapons I've ever seen is the flail. Ball on a chain on a stick looks so weird that I don't have a clue how it's meant to work. And apparently so does anyone who knows a bit about medieval combat. It would be really hard to control as it keeps yanking on itself the whole time.

There are a few medieval pictures of flails but it seems to either have been some type of novelty gadget or a strange invention that never caught on. (Which usually means it wasn't any good.) But it certainly looks cool and nasty in pictures and on walls.

Spiryt
2016-09-23, 04:26 PM
I think one of the weirdest weapons I've ever seen is the flail. Ball on a chain on a stick looks so weird that I don't have a clue how it's meant to work. And apparently so does anyone who knows a bit about medieval combat. It would be really hard to control as it keeps yanking on itself the whole time.

There are a few medieval pictures of flails but it seems to either have been some type of novelty gadget or a strange invention that never caught on. (Which usually means it wasn't any good.) But it certainly looks cool and nasty in pictures and on walls.

From what I gather, they actually indeed were a thing on Great Steppe, among nomadic horse people, although they weren't quite stereotypical ball on chain kind of thing.


http://www.muzeum.sanok.pl/images/stories/amm_2_pdf/amm2-kotowicz.pdf

http://www.muzeumwp.pl/emwpaedia/kiscien.php

They might have been descendancts of a different kind of whips, ubiquotous tools among horsenomands.

In fact they could perhaps be used very much like whips, many of those hitting parts are tiny and couldn't have packed too much of 'whoop', especially considering flexible character, meaning one couldn't put his weight behind it.

May have entered Europe from there, I guess.

Lemmy
2016-09-23, 10:39 PM
I heard about flails being used to strike around shields and/or as a disposable weapon against mounted enemies, to hurt their horses' legs or something...

I have no idea how accurate that is, though. Well... It's not like humans never create and use impractical ideas, tools and technologies, so who knows?

Yora
2016-09-24, 01:44 AM
They might have been descendancts of a different kind of whips, ubiquotous tools among horsenomands.

In fact they could perhaps be used very much like whips, many of those hitting parts are tiny and couldn't have packed too much of 'whoop', especially considering flexible character, meaning one couldn't put his weight behind it.

May have entered Europe from there, I guess.

I've seen claims that rare depictions of flails in 15th century art tend to put them into the hands of characters who are meant to be exotic barbarians. (Who are still wearing European armor but you even get that with biblical and ancient scenes painted in the Middle Ages.) Perhaps artists heard of such whips and ran with it, taking them to silly proportions and adding spikes to make it look more badass, and eventually people started actually making those things.
Which doesn't seem that improbable when you consider that you can watch videos of people making steel replicas of ludicrous videogame swords simply because they look cool and it's fun.
One historian even argued that examples of flails are copies of an idea, rather than copies of objects that already existed.

Here's some pictures of Russian museum pieces (https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Flails_of_Russia). Which have stiff braids of leather, which should be much more controllable, and they seem to be pretty small as well. Basically asymmetric nunchucks. The other models are all rope without a handle which also seems much less prone to random yanking.

Braininthejar2
2016-09-24, 03:47 PM
The hilt says fencing grip. And underhand stab from a charging horse would be difficult enough even without such a long blade. At this length I think it would be impossible, unless you're maybe riding a camel or elephant.

The information on how it was used is sparse... I'm pretty sure it's too heavy to charge with it in a fencing grip - that would dislocate your wrist. The hilt could work for both of us... but the scabbard being attatched to the horse on the left side, points towards you being right.

It seems it was a backup weapon for when you faced spearmen, and needed something with range after using up your lance. (it's hard to pull out of a guy, even if it doesn't break)

Deepbluediver
2016-09-24, 04:28 PM
I've seen claims that rare depictions of flails in 15th century art tend to put them into the hands of characters who are meant to be exotic barbarians. (Who are still wearing European armor but you even get that with biblical and ancient scenes painted in the Middle Ages.) Perhaps artists heard of such whips and ran with it, taking them to silly proportions and adding spikes to make it look more badass, and eventually people started actually making those things.
Which doesn't seem that improbable when you consider that you can watch videos of people making steel replicas of ludicrous videogame swords simply because they look cool and it's fun.
One historian even argued that examples of flails are copies of an idea, rather than copies of objects that already existed.

Here's some pictures of Russian museum pieces (https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Flails_of_Russia). Which have stiff braids of leather, which should be much more controllable, and they seem to be pretty small as well. Basically asymmetric nunchucks. The other models are all rope without a handle which also seems much less prone to random yanking.
I kind of feel like flails would be an all-offense weapon. I can't imagine being able to parry with one but from what I've read they were decent for getting around shields.

Also, and this thought is WAY out there, I'm wondering if those flails really meant to be a battlefield weapon at all? I once ran across a webpage describing something called a Judicar's shield, which was a very large 2-handed shield with a bunch of hooks and spikes on it that was supposedly meant to be used during a trail-by-combat. The whole point of it being so weird was that no one would ever use it for anything that they weren't required to, so no one would have had the chance to practice and everyone would be equally awful. That was the theory anyway.

Maybe the flail was something like that, and we just don't have a whole lot of information on it because no one ever thought to right down what was (to them) incredibly obvious. As another thought experiment- imagine an archaeologist 1000 years from now digging up a pizza slicer and trying to guess it's function if there was no one around to explain that weird circular blade to him. It gets even harder if you found it in 2 pieces- part is obviously a handle for something but you might never make the connection to that weird round shuriken-thing you found a few feet away. Originally flails were farm-implements after all.

Just a few thoughts I had while mulling this over.

Braininthejar2
2016-09-24, 04:56 PM
I kind of feel like flails would be an all-offense weapon. *snip*

Just a few thoughts I had while mulling this over.

You quoted the wrong post, I think - my reply was to an earlier post about koncerz

Lemmy
2016-09-24, 05:48 PM
BTW... I know it's a bit of shameless self-promotion, but if you like unusual, bizarre and exotic weapons, I have just the solution for adding more of them to your game (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VJNynrpwteY3NLoXRMrPXkEdUZMJJxZokWidA16ef_w/edit?usp=sharing). :smallwink:

Deepbluediver
2016-09-24, 07:24 PM
You quoted the wrong post, I think - my reply was to an earlier post about koncerz
Sorry about that- it's corrected now.

Spiryt
2016-09-25, 03:55 AM
If we're to speculate, flails were likely purely horseman weapon - they were likely very effective with ride-by attack.

And no matter of chaos around, ride-by speeds, etc. impact of the flail hit wasn't going to force it out of your hand, break your wrist, throw you out of the horse etc. Because of the flexible connection.

As with many often decorated weapons, they could have been status piece on the Steppe, and double as whip to enforce authority on some poor slaves/subordinates.

khadgar567
2016-09-25, 04:41 AM
If we're to speculate, flails were likely purely horseman weapon - they were likely very effective with ride-by attack.

And no matter of chaos around, ride-by speeds, etc. impact of the flail hit wasn't going to force it out of your hand, break your wrist, throw you out of the horse etc. Because of the flexible connection.

As with many often decorated weapons, they could have been status piece on the Steppe, and double as whip to enforce authority on some poor slaves/subordinates.
if you ask me between flail and meteor hammer for training my troops my choice is probably goes to meteor hammer more range and ability to treat 360 without shield thoug probably my go to choice is more like rope dart with some barbs we all know how connor kenway from assassins creed used with no training ( basicly used as scorpion's spear) with more training that thing is perfect for combat

Deepbluediver
2016-09-25, 11:34 AM
If we're to speculate, flails were likely purely horseman weapon - they were likely very effective with ride-by attack.
And no matter of chaos around, ride-by speeds, etc. impact of the flail hit wasn't going to force it out of your hand, break your wrist, throw you out of the horse etc. Because of the flexible connection.
Interesting- I feel like that makes sense, but I know almost nothing about both real-word weaponry and horsemanship.


if you ask me between flail and meteor hammer for training my troops my choice is probably goes to meteor hammer more range and ability to treat 360 without shield thoug probably my go to choice is more like rope dart with some barbs we all know how connor kenway from assassins creed used with no training ( basicly used as scorpion's spear) with more training that thing is perfect for combat
When you say "troops" I immediately think of soldiers in formation, and in that sense I feel like any kind of flail would be a terrible choice. If you're alone and you need to fend off a large number of enemies by yourself, then being able to swing a flexible weapon around in a wide arc seems like a decent idea...or at least one of the less-worse ideas. Trying to use a flail, meteor hammer, nunchucks, whips, etc in a close fighting formation seems like you'd be more dangerous to your allies than to the enemy.

At least that's my response at first glance, but if I'm wrong I'd love to know why.

khadgar567
2016-09-25, 11:59 AM
When you say "troops" I immediately think of soldiers in formation, and in that sense I feel like any kind of flail would be a terrible choice. If you're alone and you need to fend off a large number of enemies by yourself, then being able to swing a flexible weapon around in a wide arc seems like a decent idea...or at least one of the less-worse ideas. Trying to use a flail, meteor hammer, nunchucks, whips, etc in a close fighting formation seems like you'd be more dangerous to your allies than to the enemy.

At least that's my response at first glance, but if I'm wrong I'd love to know why.
well for normal rank and file troops giving them rope dart is bit silly instead I probably go sword and board or directly sword and gun but for my elite troops like turkish bordo beret or usa seals i may go rope dart that thing on masters hand looks deadly the way connor uses is like throwing knife with cord and looks like bit childish

Jay R
2016-09-25, 12:13 PM
The boomerang.

Deepbluediver
2016-09-25, 03:16 PM
The boomerang.
How exotic is it really though? This webpage describes a traditional hunting (non-returning) boomerang as basically being like a "wooden tomahawk" and a returning boomerang as being "merely a toy": https://www.boomerangshack.com/hunting_with_boomerang.htm
As it's simplest, a boomerang is basically just a stick that's particularly well suited for throwing at stuff.

I feel like there should be a better definition of what the weapon categories of simple, martial, and exotic are intended to include. In my mind, a weapon that is simple should be one that means it's SIMPLE TO USE, not necessarily that it's simple to make. And exotic weapons should be more than one that just "wasn't used in medieval Europe".
Way back years ago before this thread died and was necro'd, I said that IMO exotic weapons should do things no other weapon does. I still feel that way, and I'm not sure the boomerang fits that category unless you discard realism and go with a Looney-tunes version that both hits it's target AND returns, kind of like a free "Returning" enchantment.

Otherwise I'd probably just stat it like a Throwing-Axe but with bludgeoning instead of slashing damage.

RustyController
2016-09-26, 01:46 AM
Chauve-souris aka batwing spear
http://img.ifcdn.com/images/0d7777ee0d1827d1ec71961c9fc6dda5d512d0fb14e95fff35 7ff065f9a8e222_1.jpg
THE MOTHER****ING SWORD LANCE!!! Basically a spear with a long/bastard sword blade attached, barely saw use but its still cool

The clichťd swordwhip

Pata
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Pata-1-Archit-Patel.jpg

Thats all i got for now

Jay R
2016-09-26, 09:12 AM
How exotic is it really though? This webpage describes a traditional hunting (non-returning) boomerang as basically being like a "wooden tomahawk" and a returning boomerang as being "merely a toy": https://www.boomerangshack.com/hunting_with_boomerang.htm
As it's simplest, a boomerang is basically just a stick that's particularly well suited for throwing at stuff.

...

Otherwise I'd probably just stat it like a Throwing-Axe but with bludgeoning instead of slashing damage.


It can be thrown to curve, so it can go around cover.

More importantly, it throws far, far further than a tomahawk. The third time I threw one, it went well over 100 yards. I can't come anywhere close to that with a throwing axe.

In the one game in which I used a boomerang, The GM treated it like a thrown weapon with missile-weapon range.

Deepbluediver
2016-09-26, 10:07 AM
It can be thrown to curve, so it can go around cover.
More importantly, it throws far, far further than a tomahawk. The third time I threw one, it went well over 100 yards. I can't come anywhere close to that with a throwing axe.
In the one game in which I used a boomerang, The GM treated it like a thrown weapon with missile-weapon range.
Fair enough- though I was watching some videos on youtube of traditional boomerangs and most of the throwers seemed to want to hit their target head-on. If you can curve a boomerang around cover, couldn't I arc an arrow over it as well? Just another thought.

Next question then.
An aborigine or other native user might be proficient with a boomerang because they are using it as a hunting tool and don't have any other weapons they need to learn or anything else combat-related to spend their level 1 feat on, but do you think it's sufficiently powerful and/or unique enough for many PCs to want to spend a feat on it?
It strikes me as kind of like one of those weapons where a designer said to themselves "this thing will totally kick ass in the very specific situation that I am currently thinking of". But since that specific spent situation only comes up occasionally, players tend to prefer less powerful but more frequently used tactics.

Unless most of your combat plays out like Call of Duty with both teams sniping at each other from behind cover, I can't imagine that spending a feat and then carrying around a stack of boomerangs is preferable to other options.


Edit: I'm not trying to be mean- sorry if I came across that way. If a boomerang works in your game and for your character concept, great! I'm glad you had fun with it.
I'm also not demanding that everything be 100% "realistic"- that was something the original designers tried and I think failed at. I'm totally OK with running some stuff purely on rule-of-cool. I do however try to take inspiration from real-world arms and armor, and the boomerang just strikes as not terrible exciting until you start piling on a lot of stuff that kind of pushes my suspension of disbelief.

Jay R
2016-09-26, 01:17 PM
Fair enough- though I was watching some videos on youtube of traditional boomerangs and most of the throwers seemed to want to hit their target head-on. If you can curve a boomerang around cover, couldn't I arc an arrow over it as well? Just another thought.

Hitting the target straight on is always preferable if possible. Aiming is much easier that way. But the option of a curved flight ones up targets you couldn't otherwise attack.

And an arrow arcs downward only. It can't hit the enemy behind a tree or tall building, although it can certainly hit the one behind a short hedge or wall.


Next question then.
An aborigine or other native user might be proficient with a boomerang because they are using it as a hunting tool and don't have any other weapons they need to learn or anything else combat-related to spend their level 1 feat on, but do you think it's sufficiently powerful and/or unique enough for many PCs to want to spend a feat on it?

First of all, that's the player's decision, not the rules writer's. There are lots of weapons in D&D that I have no interest in.

Secondly, it worked great for Sir Cornelius, in Chivalry & Sorcery, in the early 1980s. But it was also his second weapon. He fought in melee with sword & shield. The boomerang was a missile-ranged weapon that didn't require two hands or stringing a bow. When an opponent fled, he'd drop his sword and pull out the boomerang.


It strikes me as kind of like one of those weapons where a designer said to themselves "this thing will totally kick ass in the very specific situation that I am currently thinking of". But since that specific spent situation only comes up occasionally, players tend to prefer less powerful but more frequently used tactics.

I think that this argument applies equally well to all thrown weapons. Any fighter should have a melee weapon. But that's no reason to not have a ranged attack.

It works no worse than any other thrown weapon, and at a distance or behind a tree, it works much better.


Unless most of your combat plays out like Call of Duty with both teams sniping at each other from behind cover, I can't imagine that spending a feat and then carrying around a stack of boomerangs is preferable to other options.

Not all games require feats, and when I used it in C&S, that wasn't required. The GM allowed me one unusual weapon, and since my character has a chevron on his arms, it seemed the obvious choice.


Edit: I'm not trying to be mean- sorry if I came across that way. If a boomerang works in your game and for your character concept, great! I'm glad you had fun with it.
I'm also not demanding that everything be 100% "realistic"- that was something the original designers tried and I think failed at. I'm totally OK with running some stuff purely on rule-of-cool. I do however try to take inspiration from real-world arms and armor, and the boomerang just strikes as not terrible exciting until you start piling on a lot of stuff that kind of pushes my suspension of disbelief.

Don't worry. You can't annoy me by asking legitimate hard questions.

I can't see it as a primary weapon, but in general, I don't see any thrown weapon as a primary.

snowblizz
2016-09-26, 05:25 PM
Interesting- I feel like that makes sense, but I know almost nothing about both real-word weaponry and horsemanship.


When you say "troops" I immediately think of soldiers in formation, and in that sense I feel like any kind of flail would be a terrible choice. If you're alone and you need to fend off a large number of enemies by yourself, then being able to swing a flexible weapon around in a wide arc seems like a decent idea...or at least one of the less-worse ideas. Trying to use a flail, meteor hammer, nunchucks, whips, etc in a close fighting formation seems like you'd be more dangerous to your allies than to the enemy.

At least that's my response at first glance, but if I'm wrong I'd love to know why.
Bohemian Hussites in the 1400s were famous users of flails, on foot, in formation. It's very much a peasants weapon, keep in mind you flail the grain to separate kernel and chaff and several people would do this close together in a threshing room. They'd be fairly proficient with twohanded flails.

A moving wall (more or less if you got a bunch sorta in sync) of these flails with metals spikes on them would be a rather scary thing to meet.

My favourite weird weapon is :
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/ang_h_ri/th_holywater.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/user/ang_h_ri/media/holywater.jpg.html)
The "Holy water sprinkler". I have neever been able to find some good pics of real ones. Do you stab with it, bash with it, in a formation?:smalleek: I sooo want to know.

Deepbluediver
2016-09-26, 05:45 PM
First of all, that's the player's decision, not the rules writer's. There are lots of weapons in D&D that I have no interest in.
Ok, but ideally you wouldn't need to sacrifice effectiveness for role-playing.


Secondly, it worked great for Sir Cornelius, in Chivalry & Sorcery, in the early 1980s. But it was also his second weapon. He fought in melee with sword & shield. The boomerang was a missile-ranged weapon that didn't require two hands or stringing a bow. When an opponent fled, he'd drop his sword and pull out the boomerang.
That pre-dates me by at least a decade :P
The scenario you outline though does seem like it would work pretty well.


I think that this argument applies equally well to all thrown weapons. Any fighter should have a melee weapon. But that's no reason to not have a ranged attack.
It works no worse than any other thrown weapon, and at a distance or behind a tree, it works much better.\
...
I can't see it as a primary weapon, but in general, I don't see any thrown weapon as a primary.
Alright, but presumably there's some tradeoff in cost or resources or ease of use, even if it's not D&D style "Feats". In other words, if it's better than all other thrown weapons, what is the reason everyone doesn't use one?

I admit you've done a lot to sell me on boomerangs- in a system that wasn't as stingy with the feats as 3.5 was, or had a different sort of mechanic for proficiency, I think it could be made to appeal to a fair number of people.

Deepbluediver
2016-09-26, 05:51 PM
My favourite weird weapon is :
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/ang_h_ri/th_holywater.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/user/ang_h_ri/media/holywater.jpg.html)
The "Holy water sprinkler". I have neever been able to find some good pics of real ones. Do you stab with it, bash with it, in a formation?:smalleek: I sooo want to know.
Is there any real-world reference to something like that, or is it just for D&D? I vaguely recall a something like a 1-handed mace weapon that you could load with holy water to deal extra damage to undead and evil outsiders (and good outsiders if you loaded it up with unholy water I guess), possibly in the Book of Exalted Deeds.

I think it was called the aspergillum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergillum), which is a real world liturgical implement, but AFAIK it was never used as a real-world weapon of any kind.

Jay R
2016-09-26, 06:45 PM
Alright, but presumably there's some tradeoff in cost or resources or ease of use, even if it's not D&D style "Feats". In other words, if it's better than all other thrown weapons, what is the reason everyone doesn't use one?

In that game, the reason was that they didn't know how to make or use one. Because of my character's extremely high INT, and some early adventure-based reason that I forget, the GM allowed me to know how to make and use one weird weapon, not known to the rest of England.


I admit you've done a lot to sell me on boomerangs- in a system that wasn't as stingy with the feats as 3.5 was, or had a different sort of mechanic for proficiency, I think it could be made to appeal to a fair number of people.

It worked as a unique weapon in that one game. I have no idea about how it would work in 3.5e, which I'm still pretty inexperienced in.

Deepbluediver
2016-09-26, 07:22 PM
It worked as a unique weapon in that one game. I have no idea about how it would work in 3.5e, which I'm still pretty inexperienced in.
Well, in D&D 3.5 there's little (if any) linkage between your Intelligence score and combat-proficiency, so that wouldn't be the limiting factor. The biggest issue in D&D 3.5 (or one of them at any rate) was that depending on the level of optimization your party was using, power-levels and versatility could vary wildly between classes and builds. If you were sticking with the core books and your party was mainly being played as the designers envisioned (tanky Fighter, healbot cleric, fireball-casting wizard, etc.) you'd probably be fine blowing a feat on an exotic weapon like the Boomerang.

If your spellcasters were really trying to be the biggest guns they could be though (if you've never heard of the 3.5 tier list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?269440-Why-Each-Class-Is-In-Its-Tier-(Rescued-from-MinMax)) now is a great time to go look that up) then the only way melee/weapon-using characters could kind-of keep up was by exploiting some of the cheesiest builds available (http://ihititwithmyaxe.tumblr.com/post/5994449301/the-charging-fighter-breaking-35-dd), which in turn usually meant you had to maximize the effect of every feat, class ability, and gold coin spent. Many classes were feat-starved (or at least hungry) in this sense, and often relied on playing as a human (1 bonus feat) and dipping Fighter (2 feats in the first 2 levels) to get by as it is. In general you were better off focusing on some other aspect of gameplay and just letting your casters handle ranged-enemies, since they easily outdistanced everything but Longbows and Heavy Crossbows anyway.


My favourite weird weapon is :
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/ang_h_ri/th_holywater.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/user/ang_h_ri/media/holywater.jpg.html)
The "Holy water sprinkler". I have neever been able to find some good pics of real ones. Do you stab with it, bash with it, in a formation?:smalleek: I sooo want to know.
I've been trying to find what I remembered and coming up blank so far, though it could have been listed under a different name. The Aspergillum is listed as a tool in the Arms & Armor guide and Complete Champion, as well as the Goods & Gear supplement from 3.0. I haven't been able to find exactly what I was thinking of though, but at least one of the books said that, basically, "morningstars are sometimes called holy-water-sprinklers and by holy water we mean the blood of the unfaithful, dur-hur-hur".

My thoughts on the item you posted a picture of is that someone was trying to design a mace-version of the halberd, under the old trope of "clerics can't/won't/don't used edged weapons". From my limiting understanding of real-world weapons though, a mace of equal weight to a sword would have to be significantly shorter, because concentrating all that weight at the tip makes it feel much heavier and hard to swing around quickly. Although there were polearms with heavy-duty chopping blades (see Halberd, Glaive, Naginata, etc), I can't recall ever hearing of bashing-based polearm of any kind.

In formation you'd probably get about one downward smash in (which could admittedly be very devastating) but then while you were struggling to lift it back up, the second rank would duck past the spearhead and gut you.
If someone wants to stat out a Morningstar-with-reach based on rule-of-cool though, be my guest.


Also, having actually seen an Aspergillum used in church, anything with a water-like viscosity would drain off of it completely in about 10 seconds. If you have players who want to coat their weapons in stuff to add damage against undead or whatever, I'd recommend something more like Sacramental Oils (http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/the-use-of-sacramental-oils.html) and just let them be applied to any weapon.

Cluedrew
2016-09-26, 08:27 PM
Some weird weapons? Well these are fictional but they sort of make sense:

Knockers: Basically a weight with a string at attached. You can hold on to them in your hand as sort of a brass-knuckle. Except you attack by striking with the blade of your hand (the side of your palm opposite the thumb) where the knocker sticks out, instead of punching. The string is used to turn the knocker into a sling, except you through the whole thing so each knocker has its own piece.

Blasting spears: Really big and rather complicated metal spears. They are used to hunt rather large monsters. You see the pointy bit is not attached to the spear itself (or not very well). It is made out of metal and heated before being jammed into the holder at the end of the spear. You put blackpower in the bottom of the holder* and then keep the pointy end pointing up**. You jam this into the side of something rather large. The heated spearhead is pushed back into the powder. The explosion pushes the spearhead further into the target. The body of the spear is quite heavy to reduce recoil.

* Also, I believe this would work well in a setting where guns have been invented, but not refined to the point the replace bows.
** That is until someone had the bright idea to put the powder into a paper bag so tipping the spear down wouldn't trigger it early.

snowblizz
2016-09-27, 04:33 AM
Is there any real-world reference to something like that, or is it just for D&D? I vaguely recall a something like a 1-handed mace weapon that you could load with holy water to deal extra damage to undead and evil outsiders (and good outsiders if you loaded it up with unholy water I guess), possibly in the Book of Exalted Deeds.

I think it was called the aspergillum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergillum), which is a real world liturgical implement, but AFAIK it was never used as a real-world weapon of any kind.

Real-world reference? Well the illustration is from an Osprey book on the soldiers of Henry VIII. That guy is depicted as was decribed one of 50 guys beloging to the King's Master of Tents Thomas Caverden armed with "sprinckyls", the extant depcited is on display in the Tower (of London). The holy water sprinkler is a real world weapon, though has nothing to do with holy water other than it resembles a liturgical implement. Whenever I look online much shorer weapons are suggested. Seems rather imbalanced with a big morningstar-on-stick config. But imaging a supernaturally strong D&D hero could do some damage to stuff with one, and I guess having a variant you could somehow add some hoylwater to would make very fantastical weapon indeed.

Hunter Noventa
2016-09-29, 01:00 PM
Anything in Dynasty Warriors.

Bladed Canoe, Bladed Yo Yo, Gatling Gun/Rocket Launcher, Dual Bladed Tonfa, Bladed Fans the size of a human, Magic Laser Shooting Feather Fans, Swords the size of a bull elephant...

You beat me to Dynasty Warriors, but this is so true. Just...go play any recent Dynasty Warriors game and you'll have a plethora of exotic weapons.

Xuc Xac
2016-09-29, 01:28 PM
A "holy water sprinkler" sprinkles holy water like a "Columbian necktie" goes with a three piece suit. It's just a nickname/euphemism for a horribly bloody thing.

Braininthejar2
2016-09-29, 06:04 PM
A disc.

When we hear 'disc' nowadays, we think 'frisbee', but those things used in ancient olympics were actual weapons, usually made of stone, and requiring a fair bit of strength to properly throw.

Braininthejar2
2016-10-03, 08:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skwZczSCY-0

Martin Greywolf
2016-10-04, 10:27 AM
1) Hussites

Unless you can read Czech, getting good info on these guys is damn near impossible, if you can, well, there are translations of rules for their soldiers.

Main point is that they were a rebellion that utilized a lot of common folks who had little to no proper weapons of war, so they needed to arm a lot of people, and fast. That resulted in a lot of weird weaponry - a popular thing to do was to just tweak how a scythe blade sat on a pole, slap it on a straight shaft and thus create a serviceable polearm.

What you English-speaking folks call "Bohemian flail" is a polearm-length shaft that has another, shorter stick attached via means of leather or (especially on militarily converted ones) iron hinge. There is no chain there. It was originally used to thresh wheat, but once Hussiets found out they need a lot of anti-plate armor weapons, and need them yesterday, they just put some iron bars on the shorter stick and called it a day.

Things like the two-handed mace/morningstar were born of the same need, arm people with anti-plate weaponry, and mostly began as conversions of stuff they had lying around (e.g. take a mace head, attach to a long stick, move on to another weapon) or as a quick conversions of sticks (Gudendag was just a stick with some metal around one end, sometimes with a spike or a few).

Ordinarily, you'd be correct in that they overswing horrbily and are far, far worse than a spear. But these are Hussites, their primary means of fighting involved very disciplined infantry formations (remember those rules for soldiers? marching ahead of where you should be in a column would get you in a lot of trouble), and they mostly fought equal number of opponents from war wagons. Once you are on top of a war wagon or in the second/third row of a shield wall, Bohemian flail is a hell of a weapon.

I can personally say that yes, they do curve behind shields, and yes, it hurts like hell even with padded rattan versions - I really wouldn't like to find out what they feel like when they have proper battle materials on.

For some examples of Hussite weaponry, see this image (http://husitstvi.cz/wp-content/uploads/jednotky-vyzbroj-vystroj06.jpg) and also this one (http://www.sedmikraska.cz/foto06-07/5trida-jiznicechy06/06.jpg). As you can see, the two-handed mace wasn't a one-off weapon.

2) Flails

They were used, but they were a specialized weapon. Only time you'd see one of these is by a guy in full plate against another guy in full plate. The chain makes the head/s move faster, and therefore hit harder. It's not the most controllable weapon, so you should pack a shield with it, and have a sidearm ready (some form of sword, most likely). Claiming that they were not used because they look weird is a bit... well, not exactly a good science. And yeah, they can curve behind a shield, and it does help sometimes, but it's more of a side benefit, really, and you can learn to block them with shields properly (what properly means depends a lot on the shield and flail in question).

That said, most of the modern reproductions are pretty bad. I own a reasonably accurate replica of a pretty heavy one (clocks in at about a kilo), and it's about the limit for its weight. Most of the modern ones try to slap on much more that that amount of weight on, and end up essentially unusable. You also don't spin them around above your head.

Last relevant bit of info - many morningstars, maces and flails actually had hollow heads, so if the head is the size of your fist, it may well weight far less than you think.

Spiryt
2016-10-04, 03:35 PM
he chain makes the head/s move faster, and therefore hit harder..


More velocity mean more energy and momentum indeed, on the other hand, those are also pretty much limited to the weight of the head being swung.

Elasticity of connection leaves it 'alone' during collision.

In 'normal' mace, hand, arm, and even shoulder of the wielder carry a lot of their own momentum, and thus any forces trying to bounce off or slow down the head are met with powerful resistance. Limited with the stiffness of the shaft, at least.

Someone would have to make the calculations, I guess.

Vizzerdrix
2016-10-05, 03:47 PM
Take a look at the penobscot bow.

Deepbluediver
2016-10-05, 03:58 PM
Take a look at the penobscot bow.
Interesting, it's main functions seem to be to increase durability (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable-backed_bow) and power (https://www.google.com/search?q=penobscot+bow&biw=1517&bih=735&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjDxKLaxcTPAhVJ0oMKHZOfCf4Q_AUIBygC&dpr=0.9). It seems like it's capable of putting the power of a longbow into a shortbow-sized package.

How do you think you'd stat this out in the game- what sort of bonuses would you give it?

Fri
2016-10-05, 10:44 PM
1) Hussites

Unless you can read Czech, getting good info on these guys is damn near impossible, if you can, well, there are translations of rules for their soldiers.

Main point is that they were a rebellion that utilized a lot of common folks who had little to no proper weapons of war, so they needed to arm a lot of people, and fast. That resulted in a lot of weird weaponry - a popular thing to do was to just tweak how a scythe blade sat on a pole, slap it on a straight shaft and thus create a serviceable polearm.

What you English-speaking folks call "Bohemian flail" is a polearm-length shaft that has another, shorter stick attached via means of leather or (especially on militarily converted ones) iron hinge. There is no chain there. It was originally used to thresh wheat, but once Hussiets found out they need a lot of anti-plate armor weapons, and need them yesterday, they just put some iron bars on the shorter stick and called it a day.

Things like the two-handed mace/morningstar were born of the same need, arm people with anti-plate weaponry, and mostly began as conversions of stuff they had lying around (e.g. take a mace head, attach to a long stick, move on to another weapon) or as a quick conversions of sticks (Gudendag was just a stick with some metal around one end, sometimes with a spike or a few).

Ordinarily, you'd be correct in that they overswing horrbily and are far, far worse than a spear. But these are Hussites, their primary means of fighting involved very disciplined infantry formations (remember those rules for soldiers? marching ahead of where you should be in a column would get you in a lot of trouble), and they mostly fought equal number of opponents from war wagons. Once you are on top of a war wagon or in the second/third row of a shield wall, Bohemian flail is a hell of a weapon.

I can personally say that yes, they do curve behind shields, and yes, it hurts like hell even with padded rattan versions - I really wouldn't like to find out what they feel like when they have proper battle materials on.

For some examples of Hussite weaponry, see this image (http://husitstvi.cz/wp-content/uploads/jednotky-vyzbroj-vystroj06.jpg) and also this one (http://www.sedmikraska.cz/foto06-07/5trida-jiznicechy06/06.jpg). As you can see, the two-handed mace wasn't a one-off weapon.

2) Flails

They were used, but they were a specialized weapon. Only time you'd see one of these is by a guy in full plate against another guy in full plate. The chain makes the head/s move faster, and therefore hit harder. It's not the most controllable weapon, so you should pack a shield with it, and have a sidearm ready (some form of sword, most likely). Claiming that they were not used because they look weird is a bit... well, not exactly a good science. And yeah, they can curve behind a shield, and it does help sometimes, but it's more of a side benefit, really, and you can learn to block them with shields properly (what properly means depends a lot on the shield and flail in question).

That said, most of the modern reproductions are pretty bad. I own a reasonably accurate replica of a pretty heavy one (clocks in at about a kilo), and it's about the limit for its weight. Most of the modern ones try to slap on much more that that amount of weight on, and end up essentially unusable. You also don't spin them around above your head.

Last relevant bit of info - many morningstars, maces and flails actually had hollow heads, so if the head is the size of your fist, it may well weight far less than you think.

Aren't the hussites are the first ones who regularly field hand cannons as well? I guess that makes sense, since they need to arm and train a lot of peasants quick. "Let's give them this mass produced experimental weapons."

Martin Greywolf
2016-10-06, 02:32 AM
Aren't the hussites are the first ones who regularly field hand cannons as well? I guess that makes sense, since they need to arm and train a lot of peasants quick. "Let's give them this mass produced experimental weapons."

Kinda-sorta, they weren't the first to have significant numbers of them issued, but they are the first ones to more or less build their tactics around them. Also, hand cannons weren't all that important (they did have crossbows, for one thing), the light-ish artillery that they slapped on their war wagons was. A good plate harness will protect you from a musket shot - cannon ball, not so much.

Since they were this successful with them, a lot of modern firearms terminology comes from Czech words - howitzer comes from houfnice (translated roughly as "against crowds", or crowd-er, if you will), pistol comes from pŪöťala (whistle, name comes from visual resemblance).

Also, fun fact, no one really knows what the war wagons really looked like - we have some pictures of dubious accuracy, and exactly zero of archaeological finds. See these two pictures for a period depiction (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Wagenburg.jpg) and a possible reconstruction (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Husitsky_bojovy_vuz_replika.jpg). Though the second picture has a few... issues with costume accuracy, and war wagons usually weren't fought from while horses were pulling them.

Pugwampy
2016-10-06, 03:23 AM
Well I made these DM special Japanese weapons for my campaign in 2010 . Nothing too special just more damage I guess ?


Composite Greatbow . D10 damage x3 Crit Str damage

Dai Katana . D12 damage X2 Crit 18-20 Threat .