(3.5) Zombie Tunnel

[Zanthy1]

So the title is a little confusing, but I am going to be DMing a story, once I've written most or at least more of it lol. Long story short, in this city there is a Bell tower high above the palace. The Bell is only rung in times of dire need, such as invasion or the like. (has never been rung since its installation a like 2000 years prior). However, the BBEG wants this bell, as it is magical and when used with 4 other items (which he will probably possess) achieves some goal, maybe releasing his Dagon Lich Diety.

He is planning to basically have a large army of various critters, mostly goblonoid and humanoid, to attack the city from the outside, while thousands of Drow perform acts of terrorism from within. the big point in the battle, which the PCs will witness, is the entire earth in front of the city collapse, revealing a tunnel, or hole, large enough for an entire army of zombies and skeletons to come through.

A couple questions for the playground:

1. How long would it take to tunnel out this much space, probably starting from a couple hundred, maybe even a thousand miles away.

2. What do you think of this?

[MesiDoomstalker]

First off, depends highly on the soil composition around the city, the size of the city, and the laborers. However, if this is all "cutscene" kind of stuff, its overdone. "Hey guys, lets watch as this city gets wrecked. You want some popcorn?" Your telling a story, not playing a game at that point. Cool story, but thats not DnD.

[Zanthy1]

The soil and such was going to be normal dirt probably, and the laborers would be an army of undead zombies and skeletons, that as the necromancers create more of, are added to the work force.

I'm trying to make it part of the DnD as apposed to simply a cut scene, however it seems to be the only way. As they finish off the last of a goblin vanguard, they feel the earth tremor, and all of a sudden it collapses and an army of enemy undead reinforcements charge out.

Depending on where the PCs are when this happens, they would probably start trying to get their allies inside the city walls and start fighting a siege battle or something, but that reaction would be their choice. The NPCs in charge of defending the city would probably do that, however, this army of undead would probably not be super powerful, so the PCs could stay and fight em for awhile if they so choose.

If you have any advice, I would love to hear it

[Augulus]

The obvious problem I see with this is that dnd is a collective storytelling process. My fear is that, whether you know it or not, you'll attempt to force the PC's along your predetermined plot lines.

There's no problem with coming up with a cool setting for a campaign or battle, but you have to understand that things will not go the way you planned, and the PC's will very likely derail the plot you have already written out in your book/story.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The rules you seek are in Races of the Dragon. They're under the skill entry for profession (miner), IIRC, or perhaps the kobold section.

[Slipperychicken]

If all he needs is to ring this bell, why is he attacking the city? Why can't he just sneak up there with his toys and ring the living daylights out of it? Or even just Invisibility+Silence+Fly up there.

[Spuddles]

First off, depends highly on the soil composition around the city, the size of the city, and the laborers. However, if this is all "cutscene" kind of stuff, its overdone. "Hey guys, lets watch as this city gets wrecked. You want some popcorn?" Your telling a story, not playing a game at that point. Cool story, but thats not DnD.


The obvious problem I see with this is that dnd is a collective storytelling process. My fear is that, whether you know it or not, you'll attempt to force the PC's along your predetermined plot lines.

There's no problem with coming up with a cool setting for a campaign or battle, but you have to understand that things will not go the way you planned, and the PC's will very likely derail the plot you have already written out in your book/story.

Ignore these guys. Unless your PCs are over level 10, they aren't derailing anything. Seriously, some of the playgrounders act so goddamn sensitive about everything, I suspect they never actually play dnd.

The time it takes to clear that much dirt is as long as you want it to take. It could take years to decades if done crudely with mundane tools and shoddy engineering, or in a matter of weeks with beholders and expert miners. A beholder can move a ten foot cube a round. Three beholders working non stop on 8 hour shifts for a week can burrow nearly 200 miles, leaving a perfect 10x10 hallway.

I would put 200 miles a week at the upper end of speed.

[JellyPooga]

My fear is that, whether you know it or not, you'll attempt to force the PC's along your predetermined plot lines.

It's hardly railroading to make an existing battle longer by having the enemies reinforcements turn up. If the PCs wanted out of the battle, they'd have done so way before the "tunnel opens revealing undead horde" scene.

One thing I would suggest, is to not focus too much on the horde itself, at least as far as the PC's go. Fighting off hundreds of (literally) faceless mooks is rarely fun for more than a handful of rounds. Be sure to have plenty of city guards that can handle the skeletons and zombies and a convenient sergeant or captain nearby to shout "We can handle these guys. You need to take that thing down!", where "that thing" is something big and nasty; a giant skeleton/zombie of some description, a contingent of ghoul shock troops or whatever...just something to break up the monotony of horde-killing.

[Spuddles]

It's hardly railroading to make an existing battle longer by having the enemies reinforcements turn up. If the PCs wanted out of the battle, they'd have done so way before the "tunnel opens revealing undead horde" scene.

One thing I would suggest, is to not focus too much on the horde itself, at least as far as the PC's go. Fighting off hundreds of (literally) faceless mooks is rarely fun for more than a handful of rounds. Be sure to have plenty of city guards that can handle the skeletons and zombies and a convenient sergeant or captain nearby to shout "We can handle these guys. You need to take that thing down!", where "that thing" is something big and nasty; a giant skeleton/zombie of some description, a contingent of ghoul shock troops or whatever...just something to break up the monotony of horde-killing.

Unless the exercise is "how best can we use the power of friendship to kill all these weak monsters", killing lots of low level mooks gets lame pretty quick.

This is sound advice. I know I have ran a couple battles that devolved into everyone destractedly throwing dice to kill faceless minion #33.

[absolmorph]

Hm... If they can get a Warforged or sentient undead who can make a DC 18 Perform check (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#lyreofBuilding) with no problem (and repeatedly on the hour, every hour), then you can massively drop the construction time by just using them.
According to my calculations, the Lyre can excavate 750 5' cubes, or a 27x27 (using 5' cubes as the unit of measurement) space, or 30 5x5 spaces, in 30 minutes.
... Or it might be using 3 entire days as the measure, and that jumps to 2250 5' cubes or a 47x47 space (or 10 15x15 spaces).

Keep in mind that the Lyre can only be used once a week, but you don't have to stop using it.

(Side note: I was assuming the workers mentioned in the items description got a 10 with a +0 on their roll, thus each mining 1/2 a 5' cube in 8 hours. If you apply a +5 for mining through soil, they get a 15, which mines one 5' cube in 8 hours, thus doubling the rate of work.)

So, assuming the "3 full days of work" version, and applying the mentioned bonus, we've got 20 15x15 areas, which is 100' of progress per half hour. You can bump that up to 900' if a 5x5 tunnel is acceptable. Your rate of progress would be 4800' (.91 miles) per day or 43200' (8.1 miles) per day. Multiple Lyres and Lyre-users would allow you to increase the width of the tunnel.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

As you describe it, this tunnel is doing nothing. Days or weeks of preparation results is having more troops show up surprisingly at the gates. Even if the opening of the tunnel destroys the gates this could have been accomplished with siege weaponry the "army of undead" brought with them.

A better and more interesting alternative would be to have a small contingent of zombies invade the belltower through a tunnel dug by a zombified burrowing creature. This gives you a scenario only the PC's can deal with and it's using resources that wouldn't have made a difference at the wall.

[vartan]

the BBEG wants this bell, as it is magical and when used with 4 other items (which he will probably possess) achieves some goal, maybe releasing his Dagon Lich Diety.

Please tell me the formula is Bell, Book, Candle, and Dagger... Betrayal at the House on the Hill anyone?

EDIT: or H2 I guess.

[Phelix-Mu]

I have actually had some mass battles that aren't too bad. You definitely need to have a couple extra elements to mix things up.

1.) Something to protect/move around. Basically, some kind of tactical movement going on to help give the pcs or the enemies the upper hand. Forcing/helping the players to visualize the terrain in a large battlefield scene can be quite interesting, especially if you give the players a little out-of-game time to strategize after the zombies appear. Given, zombies aren't the most innovative enemies, but if they are controlled by attentive clerics/necros, then they can be quite formidable. Be sure to supply paper maps, .bmps, dice diagrams, or miniatures to add to the visualization. This is the spice of the climactic battle, IMHO.

2.) In a related element, if there is more to protecting the city than just killing the enemy, this can add to the pressure. Maybe the zombies or their controllers are using fell animate spells to automatically raise fallen commoners as new zombies, or maybe the zombies/other undead have some spawn ability. Maybe the pcs are the vanguard protecting the evacuation of citizens (highly dependent on pc alignment and how closely the players stick to said behaviors).

3.) Some allies that the players can collaborate with/divide the enemies amongst. Nothing like some interesting npcs fighting the good fight or pursuing some vendetta against the big baddie. Also helps with the aforementioned numbers issue.

As for digging, I think it would be hard to beat the beholders method, though they aren't even vaguely reliable allies. Maybe viable targets for dominate monster, though. Druids and wizards/sorcs can also be good diggers; soften earth and stone, transmute rock to mud/sand, and move earth are all excellent spells. High level spellcasters can basically do anything given time.

As for the zombies/skeletons digging, their lack of skill (or any sort of intelligence) might be tricky, as they could easily screw up and cause a collapse before the digging is finished, which would reveal the plan of the big baddie. Close supervision could fix this, ofc, but the bad guy should have at least some kind of skilled professionals out there with Profession(mining), maybe some charmed/geas dwarf experts.

In any case, I do like this plot. Sounds like it will make a nice, memorable battle, and lead to some interesting conflict between the party and the enemy leader. Good luck.

[Zanthy1]

In answer to a few of the aforementioned questions, the Bell does need to be rung, but it along with the other items, (undetermined as of now, but I could do the betrayal items, could be funny), need to be used in unison in front of the gate. Think Age of Mythology, or just normal greek mythology, where the Titans are locked and need to be freed. Thats essentially what our big baddie wants to do, free this guy. The bell itself is supposed to be ridiculously heavy, to the point that one would need a full sized battering ram to ring it.

The zombie army coming from under the ground, is meant to overwhelm the city, who had been holding out fairly well. The city is on the coast, and when this large horde appears, the king decides to begin evacuations using his navy.

During the evacuation, the PCs can choose to fight mooks for a little bit, then move to a rescue mission as citizens or maybe some important people become threatened. After a couple of rounds of these tasks, a call will go that there is something going on at the bell tower, and that the city has fallen. It will be up to them to investigate the tower, or escape the city.

If they escape the city with the king and all the people, I figured they would stay out to sea for a while, then come back to take the city. However, the city will be empty of all undead, as the BBEG only came for the bell. Any living remnants of the army, I.E. goblins, orcs, ogres, drow, that are left will be swept from the city. Assessments will begin and some old fellow will mention that the bell tower is gone and that the bell was important.

If the PCs investigate the bell tower, they will see it swarming with baddies, trying to get in. However, the tower does not have doors, which the PCs will not know unless they investigate the tower during some other time in their visit to this city. Seeing as zombies are not smart enough to comprehend this, they are just milling about the base of the tower. The PCs can choose to attack or leave, however after a few rounds, catapults and trebuchets begin their assault on the tower, attempting to topple it into the water. The reason for doing this, is that there are 8-10 Golems waiting on the bottom of the sea for the bell, and will carry it out to where the BBEG is waiting. The water near the city is shallow enough that the PCs may be able to see, vaguely, the golems.

I hope that answers many of yours questions

[Gildedragon]

As to the items: Why not a hammer to ring the bell with as one of the relevant items? Also: Bell, Book, and Candle are a staple of supernatural horror as they were the basis of an exorcism ritual.

As to the zombie tunneling: I figured they'd sap the tower, collapse it to make it easier to get. Consider the HP of stone and dirt and the damage of picks

As to the gaming: I concur, keeping the PCs fighting mooks is a poor idea. Having a few CR appropriate leaders is a better game.

As to sugestions: If the bell magically rings when there is a great threat, it could start ringing when the tunnel breaches the city limits. This would give the PCs time to either look for the tunnel, prep for invasion etc.
Allow the PCs to thwart the theft of the bell; its not fair if the end of the encounter is predetermined.

[kestrel404]

Get a team of 2+ Zombie Dire Badgers (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direBadger.htm). You can have your tunnels under the front walls in minutes. Then start undermining the city and have buildings collapsing every few minutes.

[herrhauptmann]

As to the items: Why not a hammer to ring the bell with as one of the relevant items? Also: Bell, Book, and Candle are a staple of supernatural horror as they were the basis of an exorcism ritual.

As to the zombie tunneling: I figured they'd sap the tower, collapse it to make it easier to get. Consider the HP of stone and dirt and the damage of picks

As to the gaming: I concur, keeping the PCs fighting mooks is a poor idea. Having a few CR appropriate leaders is a better game.

As to sugestions: If the bell magically rings when there is a great threat, it could start ringing when the tunnel breaches the city limits. This would give the PCs time to either look for the tunnel, prep for invasion etc.
Allow the PCs to thwart the theft of the bell; its not fair if the end of the encounter is predetermined.
Perhaps give the PCs the opportunity to find/thwart the tunnel. A nearby random encounter, or something that gives them the opportunity to be near it, without rails.
If they succeed, fewer enemies, and alerted to the plan, so it'll be easier to get allies to help.

[Spuddles]

Get a team of 2+ Zombie Dire Badgers (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direBadger.htm). You can have your tunnels under the front walls in minutes. Then start undermining the city and have buildings collapsing every few minutes.

There you are! I knew there was a more elegant solution than a trio of beholders.

[Zanthy1]

I like the sap idea, and I get that the end result should not be predetermined, but the battle is going to go on until the Bell has been taken, undead hordes never rest. What are some cool ways to allow the PCs to have a better chance, but maybe not succeed in that exact manner? What if, during the attack, instead of stopping the bell from being taken, they could gain information regarding the bell or something, or like the location of where the bell would be taken? Or what about a couple CR appropriate encounters in front of the tower, which they could potentially bowl through?

I like the idea about the bell ringing when danger is near, however it does not really fit with the story. Within the city, only a few people know that the Bell is actually magical. Many people just assume that it is there for ringing in case of danger, and it hasn't been rung in the past because there has not been much danger towards the city, and why bother running up all the way to the top of the tower to use the battering ram clapper to warn the city of danger, when a series of trumpets and drums can achieve the same thing? The city views the Bell as more of a relic, something that is just there, as a symbol mostly. Too big to get rid of, and its not in the way so why bother. Only a few, and i mean like, 3-4 people know that its actually magical. the less people aware of its power, the safer it is. "Keep it secret, keep it safe."

[Gildedragon]

Even if people don't know it is magical, automatic ringing accomplishes 2 things: it lets the PCs prepare for an unseen assault. When they see it ringing by itself it lets everyone know it is out of the ordinary, hinting at its importance for the town.

Regarding how to stop the undead: they could take the bell elsewhere, making the undead chase them instead, they could kill the people directing the undead, they could use some power of the bell

[Zanthy1]

That is a good point, did not think of that lol.

Thanks!