Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[ReluctantReaper]

Just flipped to an episode where she punched a snake monster to death.

After seeing this and that the creator of Firefly made this as well im wondering, how good is this show. So i thought id come here and get the playgrounds opinion

[pffh]

The first four seasons are pretty good. Season 5 and 6 are watchable and season 7 is something I've never managed to finish watching.

The spinoff show Angel is also pretty good.

[Eldan]

It has ups and downs. Goes from light-hearted semi-parodic monster-slaying to suddenly extremely serious character drama to badass action to seemingly endless boring slog and back at the drop of a hat.

[JoshL]

Hated it when it came out, but pretty big fan of it now. The first season is pretty bad, as is much of the second. But in the second, about halfway through you start to see where the show really shines. It's worth sticking with, and is pretty solid after that, with fans divided on where it gets good/bad. In my opinion, it's worth watching the first season because the show is all about growth and changes, and you'll see later where things came from (and I've grown a sort of fondness for it....but it is pretty bad).

My personal favorite was the 6th season (despite a couple things that could have been handled a little smoother) but I think I'm in the minority there. It series ended pretty well too, despite a bit of studio interference...a character was supposed to die, but the studio wouldn't let them be killed. An event that happens afterwards makes a lot more sense if said character had actually been killed (about 5 or 6 episodes from the end of Season 7, for anyone who has watched).

Angel is a lot of fun too, but I'd watch Buffy first.

[Eldan]

Interesting. I liked a lot of the first two seasons. It didn't stick in my memory too much, but I liked the light-hearted monster of the week episodes. The beasties were often nicely creative in their design, and the characters worked well off each other. Later, it often spend too much time for my taste on the season's big bad, who just often weren't that interesting compared to some of the minor enemies.

[ReluctantReaper]

Sounds very interesting if its on netflix ill have to watch it and if not ill have to look for it :/

[Mordar]

I think the strength of Joss Wheadon is in his dialogue and character interaction. If you can get past the "Waif-Fu" (he often seems to have very slight females that are exceptionally combat-capable), the hands-on Wheadon stuff is fantastic. Particularly if you are close in age to the characters...he navigates High School and the College Transition well, and the characters really seem to grow in a realistic fashion.

As I recall, when he shifted his focus to Angel, and Marti Noxon (spelling?) took over the reins on Buffy it really kind of descended a bit...or a lot, depending on your favorite elements or point of view. Far too infrequent gems in seasons 5 and 6, though they are there. In fact, it occurs to me that the roughest spots in the series were predicated on real life issues (network battles, actors leaving to pursue other options, etc) and less on "in-character" issues.

Season 7 was good, in my opinion, even though it suffered from having to wrap everything up, and I believe that some loose ends were tied in ways that really made it suffer. All in all, though, I think the series is definitely a winner, and I really like the last scene...great closure.

- M

[Liffguard]

Variable. Season one is pretty dire. Two starts off pretty poor but quickly finds its feet and finishes well. Three is pretty much excellent throughout. Four is ok. Five is good. Six and seven are both pretty poor. Keep in mind that every season has a couple of truly excellent episodes.

IMO the spinoff Angel is a much better show overall. The quality is more consistent, the characters more interesting, the villains are much better (Mayor aside). It's just generally a more mature show. That's not to say it's always "darker" (though it often is) because it's also often very funny (Smile Time). It also had a four-season long myth-arc that tied the separate season-arcs together. And it had one of the best finales on TV.

[thorgrim29]

I agree that Angel is probably better overall, but I hated season 4's story arc way more then I hated Buffy's worst story arc (ADAM IMO). And the Mayor is probably the best villain ever, so you should probably watch both.

[pffh]

Angel had going for it that it didn't overstay its welcome, it ended on an interesting note and left me at least wanting more instead of slowly drifting downwards over 3+ more seasons.

[Traab]

I wish I could add more, but its been too long since I watched the show to add anything meaningful. I enjoyed it at the time, but the seasons all blur together and I cant do more than pick out a few memorable episodes, like when xander becomes draculas minion. "You will never defeat the dark master." /everyone looks at him "...bater" Then later on, "Hah, like that would fool the dark prince." /everyone looks at him "... bater" Plus his buttmonkey speech was inspired I thought.

[snoopy13a]

Season Four was my favorite, but I think the show hit its peak in Season Three. That's when the show had hit its stride and had the best cast overall, at least in my opinion). I like Anya and Dawn (I'm one of the few people who liked Dawn), but Oz and Cordy were better for the group dynamic. It also featured Faith towards the end of the season. Finally, the Mayor is probably the best villian.

[warty goblin]

Season 1: it's rough in the way first seasons are rough, but watchable and enjoyable.

Season 2: Good, particularly once it picks up some steam.

Season 3: Excellent.

Season 4: Excellent.

Season 5: Good.

Season 6: Good, long, slow build and very different than what came before. Quite probably my favorite, since it's set-up and resolution is the most interesting.

Season 7: Not worth watching, or a good excuse for heavy, heavy drinking if you do.

[Kitten Champion]

I liked everything with James Marsters and Anthony Stewart Head in it.

[ReluctantReaper]

Yeah third episode in and so far i think its going well.. plus it makes me feel like its 97 again with all the dated stuff. Yet the writing is good and im glad at that hopefully it gets better. I do find it funny that nobody ever really questions all the craziness that happens.

[Mordar]

I do find it funny that nobody ever really questions all the craziness that happens.

You have to wait a while for the payoff on that, but it comes. There's a reason people in Sunnydale accept craziness in stride. Actually, several reasons, but there's a nice scene coming for those with the thought you shared above!

- M

[Kato]

I liked everything with James Marsters and Anthony Stewart Head in it.

Wait, with Marsters AND Head or Marsters AND/OR Head? If the latter, you actually liked Smallville and even worse Dragonball Evolution? :smalleek:


It's been terribly long since I saw Buffy... I do have dear memories of it, though, and I remember some great episodes, like the Once More With Feeling or whatever the episode after that was called. Or when they lost their voices. And so on. Whedon just is a great showrunner.

[Joran]

I'm am in utter love with the musical episode.

There's also the episode in which there is no dialogue at all, which is also astonishing.

[Traab]

I'm am in utter love with the musical episode.

There's also the episode in which there is no dialogue at all, which is also astonishing.

You see, I never thought Hush was all that great. I feel like it gets a lot of acclaim for its artistry than its content. Im explaining that badly, its like, everyone oohing and aahing over some work in a museum just because art critics said it was awesome, not because they think its so great themselves. The episode WAS neat, it just didnt seem like it should be some award winningly awesome thing.

[Kato]

You see, I never thought Hush was all that great. I feel like it gets a lot of acclaim for its artistry than its content. Im explaining that badly, its like, everyone oohing and aahing over some work in a museum just because art critics said it was awesome, not because they think its so great themselves. The episode WAS neat, it just didnt seem like it should be some award winningly awesome thing.

It's been a long time since I saw it but I can honestly say I have no idea whether other people love it or not. I just remember it as something I enjoyed a lot. I guess I might 45 minutes of my life and watch it again during my holiday break.

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

I just finished a re-watch of the show, and I echo some of the same statements above, but disagree with the others. The beauty of the Internet is that we can all agree and disagree with each other and have an adult and mature conversation about it :smallbiggrin:

I loved all of the seasons and episodes, but if I were to rank my favorite seasons, it would be in the order of: 5 , 2 , 3 , 6 , 4 , 1 , 7

5th season had some of the best continuity of all the seasons. It feels like one long episode, not 20+ individual ones. "The Body", "Weight of the World", the Dracula episode, "The Replacement", just fantastic. "Triangle" is wicked under-rated.

Another controversial thought is this - 'Dawn' was really not that bad of a character. True that we could have done without some events, but overall - think about what this poor girl went through. She had to deal with her sister dying twice, her mother dying, father leaving her, surrogate mother getting shot and staying with her body, her sister basically abandoning her, having to stay with a *vampire* (well, Spike doesn't really count [HAH! See what I did there?]) for safety. Poor girl has some serious abandonment issues. Plus not originally human.

I love all the character development in season 2. We really got to know these characters. Awesome Spike (instead of lame Spike), Angelus and Drusilla as the villains. Greatness. I really felt for Giles when he found Jenny's body in his own bed... the whole house made up like a love nest... wow. Also - evil John Ritter.

Season 3 goes without explanation. Even the weaker episodes were better than average.

Each of the seasons have their 'key' (no pun intended) episodes. For season 7 - it was 'Conversations with Dead People'. As perfect an episode can be. Blood curdling terror (again, poor Dawnie :smalleek: ) notwithstanding.

[Traab]

I just finished a re-watch of the show, and I echo some of the same statements above, but disagree with the others. The beauty of the Internet is that we can all agree and disagree with each other and have an adult and mature conversation about it :smallbiggrin:

I loved all of the seasons and episodes, but if I were to rank my favorite seasons, it would be in the order of: 5 , 2 , 3 , 6 , 4 , 1 , 7

5th season had some of the best continuity of all the seasons. It feels like one long episode, not 20+ individual ones. "The Body", "Weight of the World", the Dracula episode, "The Replacement", just fantastic. "Triangle" is wicked under-rated.

Another controversial thought is this - 'Dawn' was really not that bad of a character. True that we could have done without some events, but overall - think about what this poor girl went through. She had to deal with her sister dying twice, her mother dying, father leaving her, surrogate mother getting shot and staying with her body, her sister basically abandoning her, having to stay with a *vampire* (well, Spike doesn't really count [HAH! See what I did there?]) for safety. Poor girl has some serious abandonment issues. Plus not originally human.

I love all the character development in season 2. We really got to know these characters. Awesome Spike (instead of lame Spike), Angelus and Drusilla as the villains. Greatness. I really felt for Giles when he found Jenny's body in his own bed... the whole house made up like a love nest... wow. Also - evil John Ritter.

Season 3 goes without explanation. Even the weaker episodes were better than average.

Each of the seasons have their 'key' (no pun intended) episodes. For season 7 - it was 'Conversations with Dead People'. As perfect an episode can be. Blood curdling terror (again, poor Dawnie :smalleek: ) notwithstanding.

Your opinions make me wish that the lice from a thousand beggars infest your genitals. :smallbiggrin: I liked Spike. I enjoyed that episode where spike is talking about the slayers he killed, and telling her WHY they died. It gave me chills, and seeing spike in his brit punk gear fighting pam greer from her height of blacksploitation in the subway was pretty cool.

[dps]

Personally, I loved the show.

Season One: Not bad, but season's villian is a bit bland.

Season Two: Spike and Evil!Angel make good villians, but the season's a bit disjointed IMO.

Season Three: The best villian, so arguably the best season.

Season Four: The overall seasonal arc is probably the best integrated of any season's, but it's let down a bit by a relatively weak villian.

Season Five: A lot of emotional stuff in this season, and it really should have wrapped up the series, not because season six was necessarily bad, but because it ended with a logical conclusion.

Season Six: The season's villians are treated as a joke for much of the year, but things get very, very dark toward the end of the season.

Season Seven: A potentially interesting villian, but the season is hurt by the introduction of a boatload of new characters, who IMO screw up the group dynamic.

[Dumbledore lives]

I really love Buffy and watched just about all the episodes, even the bad ones. Hell I even watched Beer Bad which is not as terrible as everyone says. The Seventh season is by far the weakest with the first season obviously a case of growing the beard.

I find the fourth is the next weakest not because of the change of scene but just because the ADAM plot was not particularly great, I mean the final episode isn't even defeating him, it's a much better episode for it but still, ADAM just wasn't threatening and had kind of a vague and uninteresting plot.

After that I couldn't say which I like more between the fifth, third, and second with particular attention to the finale of the fifth as I think my favorite episode of the series, possibly excepting the fourth season dream episode and the musical episode.

[snoopy13a]

I really love Buffy and watched just about all the episodes, even the bad ones. Hell I even watched Beer Bad which is not as terrible as everyone says. The Seventh season is by far the weakest with the first season obviously a case of growing the beard.



I liked drunk cave-Buffy. And the scene with Parker trying to pick up Willow was funny--Parker is the best minor Buffy character.

Although, during the airing of Season 4, I was in college and identified with many of the episodes.

[rakkoon]

Me and my wife are avid fans, watched all seasons repeatedly, love the boardgame, etc.
The show grows, I personally liked the first season but it gets better in the second.
The sixth season is a bit harder to get through but even that has a few hidden jewels.
Never really liked the spin-off Angel though.

[ManuelSacha]

Angel is great, Buffy is great, but both suffer of lots and downs and ups. Don't expect the quality to keep being extremely high all the time, like in Firefly.

That being said, Buffy is the show that made Whedon's fame really known, and is personally one of my favourites.

Season 5 is without a doubt the best one of them all, but season 2, 3 and 7 are close. Season 4 is probably the worst as a whole (the main storyline sucked big time), but has two or three of the best single episodes ever.

The show starts off with a "monster of the week" schedule, getting deeper and deeper in the long-standing storyline, the more you go on. By the seventh season, the "monsters of the week" have basically disappeared.

The storytelling is intriguing, the dialogues are lovable, awkward and deep at the same time (hey, it's Whedon), there's humour, there's drama, there's action... and the show has some of the best, most surprising twists ever.

Totally worth watching.

[Traab]

Angel's greatest character, Fred Burkle. She was just so awesome! Plus the love triangle type setting was amusing as hell. Conner was annoying and stupid imo.

[ReluctantReaper]

I just want to say that Xander is a great character, as is Williow, and Giles. Angel is alright so far... I see him as a pretty lazy guy never really doing anything except a heads up of stuff going down. Just got done with season one and haven't started season two.

You guys say season one is a bit weak because it is finding itself, and I thought it was very enjoyable so im looking forward to the next seasons.. Also the dialog is just great makes me laugh and feel nostalgia for the ninetys at the same time.

TLDR; I love this Show. Thank you everyone for your input and memories of this show they make it much better.

[Kato]

So I went and saw Hush again. While it was good there certainly were better episodes. I guess they should have kept the whole episode silent or something and done the setups in an earlier episode(?). I also forgot how much important stuff happened in that episode, like introducing Tara and Buffy and Riley getting together. (Though I don't care much for Riley)


I'd say Angel's quality really varied a lot not only from season to season but from episode to episode. There was always annoying and great stuff mixed all together. Overall, though, I think Buffy was by far the better show.

[Traab]

I wish doyle had stuck around in Angel. I thought he was generally pretty great. I dont know if the actor had to go or if he was always slated to be written out for the storyline to go on, but I wished he hadnt left. He had serious potential as a character for growth and change imo. Also, Charisma Carpenter. wow. She was a cutie all the way back at the start of Buffy, but damn did she ever bloom into a full on mature beauty.

[Liffguard]

I wish doyle had stuck around in Angel. I thought he was generally pretty great. I dont know if the actor had to go or if he was always slated to be written out for the storyline to go on, but I wished he hadnt left. He had serious potential as a character for growth and change imo. Also, Charisma Carpenter. wow. She was a cutie all the way back at the start of Buffy, but damn did she ever bloom into a full on mature beauty.

Doyle was originally slated to be around a lot longer but they had to fire the actor for various drug-related offenses.

[Phobia]

All of Buffy was purely fantastic.

[Traab]

Doyle was originally slated to be around a lot longer but they had to fire the actor for various drug-related offenses.

I had a feeling it was something like that. I mean, they got rid of him way too fast when he was clearly supposed to be a main cast member. Oh, and despite everything, i will likely never forget wesley showing up for the first time. "Im a rogue demon hunter." "There are rogue demons?" Here he is, trying to be british badass with his leather, his motorcycle, and his. . . dramatic pause as he announces he is a rogue demon hunter. And bang, ruined right from the start. Thank god he earned real badass credits by the end.

[snoopy13a]

Doyle was originally slated to be around a lot longer but they had to fire the actor for various drug-related offenses.

That explains a lot. I liked Doyle as a character. I only watched Angel for about the first half of season 1 though.

What was a bit strange was that Buffy moved from the WB* to UPN after season 4. Angel stuck with the WB. That's why there was some crossover between Buffy and Angel during season 4 of Buffy/Season 1 of Angel but not that much later on.

*Yeah, I think it was actually referred to as "the WB." They pretty much had Buffy and Dawson's Creek.

[JoshL]

Season 4 works better in retrospect. The finale wasn't the showdown vs. Adam, despite the fact that the series established that the finale was vs. the Big Bad. Instead we get Restless, which causes Buffy to finally find focus, think about where she came from and where she's going.

The Big Bad of S4 was not Adam (which is why his story is not all that interesting). The Big Bad is finding your way and identity in post-high school life. S6 works in a similar way.

S4 gets point for making Faith interesting too (she really comes into her own in Angel). And I also like Beer Bad for what it is (a response to the network saying they need to do a PSA style episode, and making a joke of it). Again with Hush, the novelty of the gimmick is mitigated by the way the episode drives the plot forward (similar Once More With Feeling).

I agree that Buffy was the better show, but where Angel really suffered was Cordelia. She worked well when the episodes played to her strengths (petty, shallow), but when you were supposed to care about her, it didn't work so well (she was borderline verbally abusive to Fred). Skip put it best in S4. But S5 of Angel is fantastic...even the derailment of Spike's Buffy S7 act served a plot purpose. But Wesley's arc made up for it...he started as a joke character on Buffy, began as the same joke on Angel, but grew beyond it. To absolutely wonderfully awful extremes.