Should I use the Hand and Eye of Vecna

[ZiggZagg]

Alright, so, in a campaign I am playing in (next session is today), I am playing an evil character that has recently obtained the Hand and Eye of Vecna (well, technically, they are a dagger and an amulet, but they have the same rules, minus the sacrificing of a body part). My character is a Sorcerer, and will be adding Warblade, Abjurant Champion, and Jade Pheonix mage to his build eventually. (Sorry, do not actually remember what level we are. Somewhere between 5-7 I think). Anyway, do they benefits of these items outweigh the drawbacks? Are the powers and abilities worth the ability score drain? What say you?!

[herrhauptmann]

Hmm, you need the head of vecna, or maybe his hat, since you don't seem keen on self-mutilation.:smallbiggrin:

[kestrel404]

The Eye is totally worth it if it doesn't require you to dig out your own eye.

Ditch the hand. Even (especially) paired with the eye, it's more trouble than it's worth.

[ZiggZagg]

Gee, very first comment saw the Head of Vecna reply. TOTALLY did not see that one coming...

Anyway, on to the person that actually contributed, would you kindly elaborate why the hand is more trouble than it is worth, even when paired with the eye?

[kestrel404]

Unfortunately, I'm commenting from memory as I cannot find the stats of the Hand/Eye online (they're not in the SRD, and I can't get to my DMG right now). However, as I recall, there isn't anything particularly powerful associated with the Hand itself (magic missile at will? Something like that.) - none of the real power spells even as daily abilities.

The eye, on the other hand, grants you a nice grab-bag of abilities that are not usually found together in a single magic item slot - the kind of thing you really expect on an artifact, even if it's a utility artifact mostly.

I forget what the additional power you get from using both together does, but I do seem to remember that it opens you up to be puppeted by Vecna himself (or was that specifically in the game I was in?) - which is something you want to avoid at all costs.

If I'm mis-remembering then ignore my advice.

[Gildedragon]

Amulet? Shouldn't it be Vecna's goggles or reading glasses?

As to using them, hell yeah! The DM likely has plans for these and it's nice to play along with the DM.
On the flip side: would your character do it?
Also: these things may be too potent for levels 5-7...

[kestrel404]

Amulet? Shouldn't it be Vecna's goggles or reading glasses?

As to using them, hell yeah! The DM likely has plans for these and it's nice to play along with the DM.
On the flip side: would your character do it?
Also: these things may be too potent for levels 5-7...

There is that. Perhaps you should use one, and let someone else in the party use the other? I enjoy playing along with the GM while still messing with their heads, and pulling a 'third solution' like this is always good for a laugh.

[Chilingsworth]

Also, unless you're using the varriant Ebon Pheonix Mage, JPM requires a non-evil alignment.
/nitpick.

[herrhauptmann]

Gee, very first comment saw the Head of Vecna reply. TOTALLY did not see that one coming...

Anyway, on to the person that actually contributed, would you kindly elaborate why the hand is more trouble than it is worth, even when paired with the eye?

It's a friggin artifact. Two of them.
Either you want them enough to deal with any issues they have, and they'll have issues. Or you don't want them.
The fact that you don't have to lop off bodyparts gets rid of most of the disadvantages of these artifacts.
Why is this so hard?

[rweird]

The eye will loose you some charisma, so weigh that against its powers, if you'll be facing good aligned things, your Blasphemy power can wipe the floor with things eight levels higher than you, so it will be unbalancing (though if your in a party that isn't all evil, you'll also wipe the floor with the party), personally, i'd say go for it, there might be a plot where something bad happens to the wielder (your DM isn't the type to just hand out artifacts, right?) though it'll be useful, especially the summon monster ability, granted if you have both.

[ZiggZagg]

A valid point about the Jade Pheonix Mage. We are using the "Ebon Pheonix Mage" (hurr hurr hurr) that is mentioned in the adaptation section.

As for the DM...yeah, he does just kind of hand out artifacts, but usually for story purposes. I guess we will see how it goes. Probably going to give it a try when we play in a few hours. :smallbiggrin:

[tbok1992]

Personally, if I was playing a Chaotic Good character, I'd stuff the both of 'em straight down the front of my pants just to spite Vecna. But that's just me.

[TopCheese]

It's a friggin artifact. Two of them.
Either you want them enough to deal with any issues they have, and they'll have issues. Or you don't want them.
The fact that you don't have to lop off bodyparts gets rid of most of the disadvantages of these artifacts.
Why is this so hard?

I had a monk in a game that saw a "crimson glow within a fog patch" down in a dungeon. Said monk punched the crimson glow.

Said monk then lost her hand/arm and hand some cursed artifact stuck there...

The monk then used her old arm as a weapon... I let it count as unarmed strike even though she was quite literally "armed".

But to the point... I've never seen lopping off body parts in d&d as a problem to begin with.

[Arcanist]

Personally, if I was playing a Chaotic Good character, I'd stuff the both of 'em straight down the front of my pants just to spite Vecna. But that's just me.

Eh... Messing with a God's toy isn't exactly what you would consider "wise" or "intelligent"

Having said that regardless of my alignment I would bath both of these items in the tears of 1,000 mothers who had their sons (not daughters) returned to life. Just to destroy them :smallamused:

[Phelix-Mu]

Eh... Messing with a God's toy isn't exactly what you would consider "wise" or "intelligent"

Having said that regardless of my alignment I would bath both of these items in the tears of 1,000 mothers who had their sons (not daughters) returned to life. Just to destroy them :smallamused:

Ditto. I have heard a number of complex, usually bad, things that tend to befall people that try to benefit from the artifact toys of evil gods.

Knowledge(religion) to know anything about Vecna, assuming the artifacts are still connected to him at all. Knowing about the sketchiness of Vecna and his cults is probably enough to curb the power-hunger of any moderately wise/intelligent character.

Having them not be body parts, rather normal items, is a cool bonus. Still probably doesn't outweigh the danger that even possessing such items is likely to attract.

[Crasical]

1) How interested are you in your character's ultimate fate? Using these things pretty much guarantees no 'happily ever after'. You'd be signing up to be a pawn of Vecna, and unless you where already a cultist of his, I suspect you'll be discarded once you've served your purpose.

2) Does it make the story more interesting?

[ZiggZagg]

There has been no indication that the artifacts are plot centric yet. There are other items that the npcs seem to be after, so only time will tell how important they are.

[tiercel]

Had to go dig out my DMG (I've gotten so used to just checking the SRD for Core related things).

The obvious mechanical downside to the "Eye"/amulet is taking a hit to your casting stat, but, sweet rock candy on a stick! Always-on true seeing is good; all the other spells/day you can throw from just the eye more than makes up for whatever you lose from -2 Charisma even without true seeing.

The "Hand"/dagger having blasphemy at CL 20 means you pretty much just win one combat of your choice against non-evil per day, no save. Never mind the other powers, or the combo powers of "all my Vecna powers are now DC 25" or "1/day I can summon and control a demon/devil/elemental that, if an enemy, might TPK my party if we weren't ready for it."

Mechanically these items are so strong -- especially for a ~6th level character -- that it's insane. Where the cost is likely to come, as others have mentioned, is in RP considerations... not only are you likely asking for the actual Vecna's attention / enslaving yourself to Vecna, but anyone who recognizes your Phenomenal Cosmic Power without being killed by you will set off an avalanche of evil treasure hunters who will want to gank you for your sweet loot. (If nothing else, once word gets out presumably every member of the Church of Vecna will be out to get you, to prove themselves to their dark lord by slaying you and taking up His dark artifacts for His greater glory.)

[Zanthy1]

Eh... Messing with a God's toy isn't exactly what you would consider "wise" or "intelligent" :smallamused:

I would totally do that as any form of chaotic character...almost especially an evil one. Unless Vecna was my deity of course. You'd think that if you put Vecna's eye by your business, that at least 1 other deity out there would have a laugh, and maybe protect you in some form? Or you could do it just to say you did, and hope your death is quick lol

[Story]

Take it to the temple of someone who hates Vecna and have them deal with it.

[ZiggZagg]

Well, we went up against an Aspect of Orcus tonight, and I was not familiar with the CR of that creature, so I debated using them...but then we face rolled him in like 2 rounds. So it has not some up yet. And figured out the characters are 6th level, so yeah, I could steam roll a lot of things with those powers. Not really sure where he is going with this campaign, but I may just end up using them, since my character is a full blown psychopath anyway.

And we did try to ditch them at a place that would take care of them...but then we found out the church was either corrupt or was just a front for a cult. So, either way, we ran away quickly. If he wants to take me down, he better do it soon. The character I am using is a reincarnation of another from before, so same build and everything. In another 1 or 2 levels, he starts to take off, and it will be hard to stop him. At the end of the campaign he was in, he nearly soloed the ending encounter against 4 high level spellcasters...sooo...yeah...I think something is going to break at some point, and it is going to get messy LoL

[Killer Angel]

Anyway, do they benefits of these items outweigh the drawbacks? Are the powers and abilities worth the ability score drain? What say you?!


Well, we went up against an Aspect of Orcus tonight,

My personal considerations.
Those are artifacts, and are decisely overpowered for your level.
To balance it, you'll face powerful enemies, with CRs far superior to your level.
You have become a tool... it's not "you Vs bbeg", it's "your items Vs bbeg", your skills and abilities are no more important, you are almost effectively out of the game.

Get rid of Vecna's items asap.

[Togo]

The only reason I can see why these artefacts would come to your character is because they're going to come with awful, terrible, consequences for you, your party, and everyone within a decent radius.

So the question is whether you want your character to become more powerful at the expense of being ground zero for some aspect of the plot. Personally, I'd go for it, but don't expect to survive the experience intact.

The fact that the 'mutilate yourself' downside has been removed is only sugar coating on what is pretty obviously bait. Tasty bait, but certainly bait.

[tbok1992]

The only reason I can see why these artefacts would come to your character is because they're going to come with awful, terrible, consequences for you, your party, and everyone within a decent radius.

So the question is whether you want your character to become more powerful at the expense of being ground zero for some aspect of the plot. Personally, I'd go for it, but don't expect to survive the experience intact.

The fact that the 'mutilate yourself' downside has been removed is only sugar coating on what is pretty obviously bait. Tasty bait, but certainly bait.

And that is why they'd be going straight down my pants if I got 'em, because they're sure as hell not going in my eye socket/limb stump.