Can a paladin smite when using TOB strikes?

[molydeus]

Hi everyone,

I'm confronted to a terrible dilema in the choice of my feats for my half-vampire paladin 4 /crusader 1 / Ruby Knight Vindicator 8.

I'm hesitating between taking Extra-Turning or Awesome Smite for my last feat.

Now the question is: can a paladin use his smite evil ability (and then, awesome smite) when using a strike maoeuver from the Tome of Battle?
It seems that there is a contradiction between the PHB (it is said that the paladin smite evil applies only to "normal melee attacks" which does not include strikes) and the TOB (it is said that the crusader's smite ability can be applied to the "next melee attack", which includes strikes).

How do you play this in your own games?

[BowStreetRunner]

There is no contradiction. They are simply different abilities. If you look around a bit you will find a few more out there as well - Cleric with Destruction Domain, Pious Templar, etc. Note that some of them refer you back to the Paladin's smite abilities for the details, while others are fully described on their own. All count for feats and such that have a prerequisite of a smite ability, but they do not stack unless specifically stated.

[Urpriest]

As far as I know, strike are normal melee attacks.

[Answerer]

I would absolutely allow it, and I think anyone who bans it is wrong.

[Deophaun]

The answer is that strikes are abilities that have you make a normal melee attack (or attacks) in order to do something special on top of that attack. So, while you can't use your smite on the strike, you can use your smite on the melee attack the smite also uses.

[Waddacku]

Not being able to Smite with them would be akin to not being able to Power Attack with them.

Which you can, too.

[tiercel]

As far as I know, you can stack any number of different effects on a standard-action attack, all of which affect that attack, i.e. your TOB strike stacking with the effects of your Awesome Smite stacking with the effects of of Power Attack and Stunning Fist while discharging the vampiric touch spell in your spell storing weapon and dealing an extra 2d6 damage because you psionically charged the weapon made out of Deep Crystal, etc.

As long as you don't try to stack identical bonus types, run out of actions for the round to activate all the effects, or use them on a non-standard-action attack (AoO, Cleave, full attack, etc) I would think that you are alright.

The obvious answer here of course is "ask your DM," since your DM is going to be the ultimate adjudicator of whether or not it actually works out for your character in your DM's campaign. But personally I don't see why not. (Heck, it's not like Awesome Smite doesn't do things similar to ToB strikes anyway, it's just nifty for you that you could stack effects.)

[Larkas]

If your "next melee attack" is a "normal melee attack", I don't know why they shouldn't be able to be used together.

[molydeus]

Thanks guys! Effectively it makes sense that if you can use feats (like Power Attack) or item capabilities that also apply to each attack you can also use smite.

I'll check with my DM, but even if we have long played D&D3.5 it's the first time we use Tome of Battle... so all your answers will be usefull :smallwink: