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locutus
2012-12-27, 07:20 PM
So I've got the PCs(level 3-4) employed by a Countess Ingrid(14th level artificer) who has, over the last several years, spread out her fiefs. Anyway, the PCs are a few days travel out from her HQ, at the manor of one of the Countess's vassals, and they've been attacked by a party of 4-8th level barbarians, who can basically do whatever they want to whoever they want in the region. The PCs were trapped in a cave, but two escaped, one is now a prisoner of some Troglodytes in the underdark somewhere, and one has made it to the Fae Market. The two that escaped are now holed up in the manor house with the Manor lord and his house.

Now: It's Countess Ingrid's Feudal responsibility to be the Big Damn Hero (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigDamnHeroes). There are a couple of ways she can do this. She has a 9th level wizard cohort, who she can summon to come pick her up, and subsequently teleport into the courtyard in a blaze of glory and start wrecking things. She could also create an item of teleportation, though that might take her two weeks, and I'm not sure why she might do that.

The PCs can fix this by negotiating. They can escape in one of several ways. I don't want to cast Countess Ingrid as incompetant, but I also don't want to steal the spotlight from the PCs. Are there circumstances where it can be ok for an NPC to steal the spotlight? What kinds of things can I do to maintain the countess as a badass without stealing the PC's thunder?

Matticussama
2012-12-27, 10:58 PM
I've had similar situations in past games, so I totally understand the confliction. Here is how I handled it; my player's enjoyed it, so feel free to use any of the ideas if you like them.

If you have any characters who are interested in becoming a big-shot in the area (an anointed Knight, a noble, or even just want to make friends in high places) give them the opportunity to speak with the Countess or her representatives. Handling this sort of issue is likely how she discovers promising talent to recruit into her army, grant border keeps to, etc. If they can handle these barbarians, who are obviously a thorn in the side of the Countess, she can offer them any number of possibilities to become well-respected members of the community. Assuming the player's aren't already nobles, this gives them a huge chance for social advancement.

If you want her to take a more direct influence than just offering them such rewards, have her send some people to aid the party taking down the Barbarians. The Countess herself isn't very likely to respond to every wandering group of Barbarians, Orcs, etc. As a 14th level character and a fief holder, she is more likely dealing with bigger issues facing the realm (demons, devils, dragons, etc).

Instead, she would probably send one or two of her Lieutenants for this sort of job, with a few men at arms to support the Lieutenant. Make her Lieutenants around level 4 - 5, so they can join the party to help, with a small group of level 2-3 men at arms. This way the party gets aid fighting against the Barbarians (who are clearly stronger than them indicated by their loss), but without being completely shown up by a 14th level character. It also gives you the opportunity to have a larger-scale battles, and new friends and allies for the party to interact with.

Even ignoring the possibility of being knighted or granted lands by the Countess, they can make friends with a strong Lieutenant in the Countess' army. This gives you the opportunity to introduce a new friendly recurring NPC, who can then become a source of information or quests in the future.



In my game, the Knight character used our similar opportunity to rise up through the ranks. She was recognized for making a significant contribution to the safety of the realm, and we had a very fun social session with full awards ceremony. Later on, building off of this reputation, she set up a keep on a mountain pass to help protect the realm from marauders and to secure a safe trade route. She was eventually awarded the hereditary title of Baronet.

awa
2012-12-27, 11:59 PM
alternatively she might not be able to save the pc becuase level 14 stuff is happening off screen.

for example I understand there's a barbarian problem over there but ive got a dragon problem over here so i cant swoop in to save the day.

Craft (Cheese)
2012-12-28, 12:56 AM
The PCs can fix this by negotiating. They can escape in one of several ways. I don't want to cast Countess Ingrid as incompetant, but I also don't want to steal the spotlight from the PCs. Are there circumstances where it can be ok for an NPC to steal the spotlight? What kinds of things can I do to maintain the countess as a badass without stealing the PC's thunder?

The easiest solution is also the best one, in the long term. It sounds to me like it's time for the Countess and her strongest minions to permanently bite the dust. Leave a few loose ends around so the PCs can wrap up anything important you had planned related to her themselves and then start to plan her demise.

awa
2012-12-28, 01:09 AM
no need to kill the npc out of hand just make it clear shes off doing level appropriate stuff over their the whole feudal system is based on delegating anyway.

and their are times when an npc can steal the spotlight but it cant happen often (like a few times a campaign)
don't use it to kill any of the pcs rivals/ anyone they really hate and are
strong enough to have beaten on their own within the next few levels (basically don't kill steal).

Don't have the stolen spot light stay stolen very long quickly return focus to the pcs. kill the necromancer ill hold off his army as long as i can is okay. Ill keep the dark lord busy kill his body guard and help the princes escape is okay. sit around and watch me mop the floor with everything is not okay.

Player agency is important. If the quest is about finding the magic plot device to awaken the fairy queen before the army of darkness can break in and kill her in her slumber her awakening and crushing the evil army is acceptable the pcs fought for that outcome its their victory. If the npc just pops in out of the blue and solves the problem that's a lot less satisfying.

make sure their is a reason the npc doesn't solve all their problems.

editx2 also how does the npc know the pcs need help?
If their is a plausible way for her not to have received their pleas for help use that

GoddessSune
2012-12-28, 03:06 AM
Some things to do:

1.Have the Big Hero fail. Simple enough...they teleport in and are taken down very quickly. This can work great with a message to the PC's of like ''we will strike at noon''. Then the PC's can strike during the Big attack...when suddenly the Big Hero losses. The PC's can then either help directly, or just take advantage of the situation.

2.The Shield. Give the bad guys some type of magic shield, say an anti teleport item. They can't be Big Heros until the PC's get down that shield.

3.Busy Hero. It's all part of a plot and the hero is needed over at place A. So they just send a bit of aid to the PC's and say ''good luck''.

Sith_Happens
2012-12-29, 08:01 PM
Have the wizard cohort smuggle the PCs a bunch of magic items just powerful enough to let them wipe the floor with the barbarians. The wizard should describe the items as "some stuff the Countess had laying around" and make it very clear that she expects it all back (less any consumables that get completely expended).

That way, the PCs get all the action to themselves while the Countess gets to make an impression by doing what artificers do best: Have fun toys.

locutus
2012-12-30, 02:01 PM
Hmm. It's a toss up between having problems elsewhere and handing the PCs a critical secondary mission. They need to hunt down and capture the barbarian soothesayer, who naturally is alone in the woods communing with some spirit or another.

And by "Problems Elsewhere", I mean her other border fief is under attack by three brontosaurs full of Thri-keen. With a hydra spellcaster along. Damn I wish I had a way to show that to the players. Oh well. Let them level up and they can fight it themselves.

Do you guys have any advice on how to run a hunt through the woods? I'd like ot make it more interesting than a few survival rolls.

Matticussama
2012-12-30, 02:52 PM
Do you guys have any advice on how to run a hunt through the woods? I'd like ot make it more interesting than a few survival rolls.

I'm not quite sure on how to make the tracking itself more interesting, but when (and if) the Barbarians realize they're being followed they can always set up a few ambushes. Forests mean plenty of places for cover, concealment, and ways to take the high ground. Put a few archers in the trees, melee combatants taking advantage of the terrain, and (if this is an area the Barbarians go through often) certain spots where they have pits, bear traps, etc prepared for pursuers. After all, (smart) raiding parties would know the advantage to preparing traps for pursing armies otherwise they wouldn't be able to make frequent raids without being followed back to their home base.

The ambushes also give you an opportunity to have them fight the barbarians in more manageable numbers. The ambush force may only have 3 or 4 of the tribesmen there to deal with the pursuers; the rest of them are continuing ahead. By taking advantage of the terrain the barbarians will still put up a good fight and possibly even drive them back, without the overwhelming force that led to their prior defeat.

snoopy13a
2012-12-30, 03:44 PM
What kinds of things can I do to maintain the countess as a badass without stealing the PC's thunder?

Perhaps the Countess is presently dealing with another crisis and cannot help out the PCs? Otherwise, her logical behavior would be to round up her household guard and rout the barbarians.

This could be a structural problem in your game as your players have a boss who can and will bail them out if they get into trouble. Maybe the Countess can rescue the players and then fire them for incompetence. The players can move on to lands where they aren't working for extremely powerful characters.

Lost Demiurge
2013-01-03, 12:53 PM
Have the Countess get a message to the freed PC's, probably through the wizard. "I'm sorry, but I cannot directly help you. Our foes have plans readied and poised for my absence, so I must stay where I am or else all is lost."

"That said, I refuse to leave your friends languishing any longer than is necessary, and divination has provided me information, which I pass on to you. Included in this package you will find the name of a covert contact who can help you access the fae market and steal your friend back, as well as a map of the secret tunnels leading to the troglodyte lair where your other friend is being held prisoner. I hope to speak with you all once you are reunited, so we can plan the counterattack on our mutual foes. Be well, and good fortune."

Now you've got two adventures focused on springing the captive PC's. The Captive PC's can play temporary party-level NPC's sent along to assist with springing their characters, until they're free again. And the PC's will come out of it with more experience and treasure, and hopefully some good stories, and plenty of hooks for the future...

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-01-03, 01:23 PM
And by "Problems Elsewhere", I mean her other border fief is under attack by three brontosaurs full of Thri-keen. With a hydra spellcaster along. Damn I wish I had a way to show that to the players. Oh well. Let them level up and they can fight it themselves.

Show them the corpses--er, I mean "trophies"--afterwards. :smallbiggrin:

awa
2013-01-03, 02:08 PM
have a few escape and have the pcs be tasked with cleaning up the little ones that fled the battle said little one are of course level appropriate

Yora
2013-01-03, 03:48 PM
I think PCs don't have to do everything by themselves the whole time, but everything they do has to be relevant.

If the PCs escaped and returned to base to get reinforcements, they should return with those reinforcements. However during the rescue mission they need to do something critical to the overall success. Which very often can be done well by splitting up the forces. Either the countess or her wizard in the example would be a major force in the battle, but that does not have to mean that the PCs have to tag along and watch the show. Since they would be useless in such a position and not of any meaningful help, have them do something else.

To use another example, no group of PCs would feel disappointed if their task is to disable a radar jammer and then watch as the enemy base is bombed to rubble by artillery or an orbital strike by battle cruisers. They still did it, even if they didn't deal out the damage points.
It depends entirely on the specfic situation, but a high level spellcaster could blast open the main gates and then hold the main hall to prevent any enemy troops to come as reinforcement to the dungeon where the other people are held. Fighting through the guards already in the dungeon would still be the PCs job.

J-H
2013-01-03, 06:35 PM
She can always suffer a Teleport malfunction and be unable to show up for several hours.... or be busy Teleporting people out while the PCs hold the line.