Headache of mounted combat

[Red_Death01]

So in a upcoming campaign I have two players wanting to collaborate and use mounted combat-- the issue? Ones a druid that will be using shapeshift to a panther and the other is a gnome who will be getting the ride skill and feat mounted combat.... Now I'm aware of the -5 bareback penalty that the gnome will be facing with ride checks and that the gnome can direct, move, and prevent damage from being dealt to the druid. But, the question I have is there really rulings on players being mounts and such? The druid more or less being able to move twice in a round (his round and the gnome's turn) is a bit silly to me as well as the actions they can take. Some quick and helpful guidelines would be appreciated as the PHB doesnt really cover this issue too much.... at all....

Edit: Finding the D&D Article Archive on the website helped me alot... I still have questions though:

1. If the gnome falls unconcious she is riding bareback- can the druid do anything to keep her on his back or no.
2. Besides taking cover behind the mount and Mounted Combat Feat, are there any other viable times she will make a ride check? (off the assumption the druid will ALWAYS allow and willingly let her ride him)

[Zanthy1]

They could get a saddle, probably military exotic, that would keep the gnome rider mounted if knocked out. This would also help with the ride checks needed. maybe consider also getting like a harness for the gnome, for when the panther pounces?

Also I would have them take a turn together, or 1 right after the other, so as not to give a player 2 turns a round

[Darrin]

1. If the gnome falls unconcious she is riding bareback- can the druid do anything to keep her on his back or no.


This is from the Equipment section, Military Saddle:

"If you’re knocked unconscious while in a military saddle, you have a 75% chance to stay in the saddle (compared to 50% for a riding saddle)."

The rules don't cover "bareback", so that's probably going to be a DM's call. Based on these percentages, I'd say the chance is either 25% or 0% (automatically falls off). Since the attack that renders the gnome unconscious is likely to happen outside of the druid and gnome's turn, outside of readying an action and contingency shenanigans, there's probably nothing the druid can do. If you use the 25% and the gnome makes the roll, I might require another roll anytime the druid moves any faster than a walk or more than 1/2 speed.

On the druid's turn, I might allow the druid to pick up the gnome from the ground (move action or grapple action) and then either sling the gnome over his back (move action to manipulate an object) or carry (probably no action). Unless the gnome were strapped down or secured, I'd probably impose a movement penalty, probably 1/2 speed or just treat it as moving in a grapple.



2. Besides taking cover behind the mount and Mounted Combat Feat, are there any other viable times she will make a ride check? (off the assumption the druid will ALWAYS allow and willingly let her ride him)

Because the gnome's mount is intelligent, you don't use the Ride skill to "control" the mount during combat. The druid acts on his own initiative count, and can do whatever he likes (although it's probably best that the gnome delay his actions until after his mount has moved).

Under the Ride skill, the gnome can make a ride check to:

Cover: Duck behind the druid. Successful check gives you a +4 to your AC, but oddly enough, if the attack misses, apparently there's no chance it actually hits your "cover" (the druid).

Soft Fall: If you do fall off, roll to avoid taking 1d6 damage. Other than falling unconscious, the rules don't say when this would happen... well, there's something about falling off when making a Ride check to leap over obstacles, but that's more likely going to be the druid making a jump check. I'm not sure I'd require a ride check to stay in the saddle if the druid was jumping.

Spur Mount: This is an interesting option... you can increase the druid's speed by making a Ride check and doing a little damage (there's a build that uses this trick to drop the Tarrasque (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188302)).

Fast Mount or Dismount: Make a ride check to mount/dismount as a free action. Useful if you want to use the druid to convey the gnome to the front lines, have him dismount, and then make a full attack.

There's a quirk to the mounted combat rules that if you stay on your mount, you have to wait until your mount gets to your target to attack, and you're limited to a single attack. You'll probably want to discuss with your players what happens when the gnome delays his action to act after the druid moves/attacks. Does the gnome get his full complement of actions, or is he still limited to a single attack? If you say he can only make a single attack while mounted, then the gnome may want to use the fast dismount check to dismount as a free action and then take his full attack.

There's another quirk you'll need to work out if either the druid or gnome wants to use Spirited Charge. When the mount charges, the rider is supposed to get the same "bonus" (the rules here are referring to the +2 attack bonus, but you'll need to decide if this includes other charge-related effects, such as Pounce, Leap Attack, etc.). Spirited Charge appears to assume that the rider is charging, which doesn't make sense: they're on a mount and not capable of moving on their own, so they can't be charging. So you'll want to clarify who has to spend a full-round action to charge: the mount (leaving the rider with his full complement of actions), or both (mount and rider together).

Also, you may want to amend "Ride-By Attack" to say "move to the nearest square that allows the rider to attack and continue in a straight line", otherwise the charge rules force you to charge through your target, which is illegal.

[ericgrau]

For the most part I would let them act separately with some exceptions. First give them the same initiative so it works like regular mounted combat when needed. As some are already noting you run into a million issues with different initiatives, and it makes sense since the two are working together. Next require ride checks to use both hands (only if the gnome wants to still direct the druid with things like mounted combat), fight at the same time as the druid, use the druid for cover, fast mount/dismount as well as reactive checks for falling off and so on. I would allow the mounted combat AC if the gnome is guiding the druid. For the sake of simplicity I would not allow/require leap or spur mount.

Also note that if the gnome is a caster he needs to make concentration checks in any round that the druid moves. Likewise archers have attack roll penalties and melee is limited to a single attack.

[Phaederkiel]

could you quickly sketch the solutions you found?

I had a similar situation with one player beeing a centaur (getting mounted combat as a free feat). I would not let the rider make the ridden take another move action. The rider only controls where the mount goes. That the rider can jump off and do awful things is another question.

[Red_Death01]

Mostly since there doesnt seem to be any hard rulings on players being mounts and such I've mainly limited what they can do- The gnome can't affect the druids movement (as per a ruling on the website for intelligent mounts) and can't move on his turn, but can still do things like unsheathe and grab items and such. I've mainly said no to using a saddle (as the situation they're in and the fact the game is starting like this I'm making them take the -5 for being shear silly...) For checks the only ones I have found which could really do much is the Mounted Combat Feat and take cover. She's able to 'request' the druid to do things but, its up to him (He'll always do them knowing him...). As for falling off since there is no saddle he'll be falling off and taking 1d6 damage unless the druid somehow has prepared to catch him... The WHOLE reasoning they were wanting to do this was for the simple fact that the druid wanted to be 'neigh immortal' through mounted combat and being a tank build (crusader from ToB stances included)... As for full round actions if the gnome does one he has to wait for the druid's turn first as movement can mess him up...

Now you may consider me 'a bit' unfair to my players but, considering I'm having them Gestalted with a 36 point buy against non-gestalt enemies they're level or lower and for some reason the group consists of a psion/factotum, druid/crusader/fighter, barbarian/swordsage, and a bard/fighter.... Them trying these shenanigans are kind of annoying- And I'm the smuck that won't slam the NO button much...

Either case, the first session went well- and the players decided that with no saddle having the mounted combat feat plan wasn't worth it and instead will be simply 'riding in style'... Which makes it less frustrating for me to try and provide a challenge for them.