Kobold Fighter Sub + Warblade = early high sword low axe?

[DangerDanger]

The fighter sub gives you dodge and 3 weapon focuses for spears.
Weapon Aptitude from Warblade allows you to retrain weapon specific feats for 1 hour of focus.
High Sword Low Axe is tasty, but requires axe and sword focus.

1. Warblade1: Two Weapon Fighting
2. Fighter1: Dodge, 3 Weapon Focus (longspear, shortspear, spear) >Retrained> Axe and Sword
3. Fighter2: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
????: High Sword Low Axe

Now time to increase that size category!

Getting into bloodclaw master would be nice. Charge, TWF no problem, free trip attempt, extra blow >> Opponents day wrecked.

Thoughts?

[TopCheese]

Not sure if it works that way but I guess it should.

Doesn't really do much though... Once you go up against 3rd level spells and their casters you are still toast.

[TroubleBrewing]

I like the fuzzy wording on this one. I'd allow it.

[Vizzerdrix]

I don't see why this wouldn't work, but, why would you want to? You'll have to jump through a bunch of other hoops just to get both TWF and Tripping to work.

On the other hand you could gestalt it with cleric I guess...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You don't get Weapon Focus feats from Kobold Fighter 1, you get a +1 bonus to attack rolls that can count as Weapon Focus for qualifying for other feats and prestige classes. That sub level itself does not give you Weapon Focus at all. Weapon Aptitude only works with feats, and Spear Focus is an extraordinary ability, not a feat. If it did work, you would be better of using the Dwarf Fighter 1 sub level for Axe Focus, which is actually five and a half weapons, no Dodge but it gets a d12 HD and Kn: Dungeoneering. Note you don't have to take any other substitution levels, so you can still get the Fighter 2 bonus feat.

Swordsage 1 actually gets a bunch of Weapon Focus feats, which are actual feats and can be switched around with Weapon Aptitude. Go Human Swordsage 1/ Warblade 1/ Fighter 1, get TWF and Combat Expertise at 1st and Improve Trip and HSLA at 3rd.

[Phaederkiel]

It is anyway a VERY nice way of bypassing those ugly requirements.

the question is: does the warblade not let you reassign all your weapon specific feats to your weapon of choice?

(in which case i would try to get a plus 3 bonus to one weapon, which is quite a relevant bonus. Since the boni are untyped, they should stack)

are there other such races /substitutions which do not make you play a kobold?



edit: warblade states RAW that this technique works, since you reassign each weapon related feat separatedly.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Yes, Warblade is able to reassign weapon feats, but the Kobold Fighter 1 sub level doesn't give you any weapon specific feats. It gives a class feature that grants weapon specific bonuses which don't stack with Weapon Focus but may be considered Weapon Focus for just those weapon for purposes of qualifying for other feats. But that sub level doesn't actually give you any weapon specific feats at all, so Warblade can't reassign any of those bonuses.

[Phaederkiel]

sorry BiFu, I just got swordsaged (which is appropriate), i seemingly forgot to refresh my browser before tipping away.

but does the swordsage / warblade really work?

it seems to me that every weapon focus the swordsage gets needs to be from one his schools as a rule. Can we really change that? I mean, changing the school is obviously absolute cool (and quite powerful, I would say), but picking a school and then getting 6 weapon focuses?

You could take 3 of those two weapon style feats with that, and get them working at the same time via aptitude weapons. Kukri, while staying in the critting stance to have fun with all the hits.

for example you could easily add lightning maces for practically free, AND spinning halberd, AND Axespike.

and either crescent moon or Three mountains are quite available for such a build, if you go into figher afterwards.


This seems a wee bit powerful, does it not? If it works, lets break it and report it to the swordsage handbook :smallbiggrin:

[Zombimode]

You could take 3 of those two weapon style feats with that, and get them working at the same time via aptitude weapons. Kukri, while staying in the critting stance to have fun with all the hits.

for example you could easily add lightning maces for practically free, AND spinning halberd, AND Axespike.

Uh, what?
Weapon Aptitude lets you change Feat (Weapon X) into Feat (Weapon Y), ie. Weapon Focus (Longsword) into Weapon Focus (Battleaxe); not Lightning Maces into Lightning Longswords

[JaronK]

I think he means Aptitude Weapons, as in the enchantment, not the Warblade ability. They're written differently. But Aptitude weapons only apply to feats that work for one type of weapon... so they don't work with most weapon styles.

JaronK

[StreamOfTheSky]

Swordsage gets one Weapon Focus feat. They get Weapon Focus [discipline]. You want to change that via Warblade, you get one Weapon Focus out of it.

I guess the OP's idea doesn't work, which is a shame, it'd be cool if kobolds were good for other classes than just arcanists and without needing the early epic cheese.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Swordsage gets one Weapon Focus feat. They get Weapon Focus [discipline]. You want to change that via Warblade, you get one Weapon Focus out of it.

I guess the OP's idea doesn't work, which is a shame, it'd be cool if kobolds were good for other classes than just arcanists and without needing the early epic cheese.

"Weapon Focus: At 1st level, you gain the benefit of the Weapon Focus feat for weapons associated with the chosen discipline. See the discipline descriptions in Chapter 4."

You get Weapon Focus for each of those weapons.

Kobold Fighter 1 isn't even as good as Dwarf Fighter 1 for the proposed trick, unless you also need to take Dodge.

[Phaederkiel]

hmm.

one could argue that it should be written as

"you gain the benefit of the Weapon Focus feats for weapons associated with the chosen discipline"

to give you more than one focus, but as written it is at least ambigous, probably leaning towards BiFu's interpretation.
Or does "gain the benefit" mean that you do not get the feat proper.


@ JaronK:

Without wanting to quote the book directly, I am quite sure that you can take feats for different weapons and apply them to the aptitude weapon.

[Answerer]

You get the benefits of those feats, but you do not get those feats themselves
No DCFS, no Weapon Aptitude, etc.