A Red Mage by any other name

[Noble Savant]

So, my question is fairly simple. Is there any way to, with some combination of classes, get yourself a working Red Mage in the final fantasy style. Which is to say, both divine and arcane magic as well as some swording in one neat package.

Now, just doing that alone isn't too hard, but I've been trying to figure out a way to do it and actually be reasonably competent at what I'm doing. Also, I'd rather avoid bard, simply because I don't find the idea of being a musical type to b e very suitable for this character.

Any ideas for me?

[Vizzerdrix]

Umm... Duskblade with Arcane Devotion feat, maybe.

[gorfnab]

Mystic Ranger with the feat Sword of the Arcane Order. Maybe with a level or two of Crusader thrown in.

[andromax]

I think you should take a look at the Lightning Warrior (http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Lightning_Warrior) :smallbiggrin:

[Vizzerdrix]

I think you should take a look at the Lightning Warrior (http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Lightning_Warrior) :smallbiggrin:

I fail to see how that applies to the OPs request.

[Story]

The easiest way is a Wizard/Ur Preist theurge, but that requires evil alignment. Alternatively, if you're ok with being master of none, just go with a standard theurge.

Artificer can also do all of that stuff but the fluff is completely different.

[Sugashane]

Just go straight dual progression spellcaster ASAP, and get a ring of Divine Might made, which makes your level your base attack bonus. The only issue with this is the need for a higher Con to get those bonus hit points. Your hit die will almost always be poor when in a heavy spellcasting class. There should be a feat to maker one ability take over the other, such as how Serenity does for a paladin.

You will still want to stay out of melee whenever possible, as you will have a danger of arcane spell failure chance if you wear armor. There are a few one level dips that can grant light armor casting without a failure chance. So getting that and then getting Battle Caster (I think) allows medium armor to be worn without any failure chance. Mithril full plate counts as medium armor, so you're set. So it can be a feat needy build but fool around with a couple progressions and see what you can get.

[Fable Wright]

Fochlucan Lyrist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=2). Full BAB, advances Bard and Druid casting and Bardic Music. While the bard part is less than exciting for you, it's the most direct analog there is to the Red Mage you can get.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'll agree with Mystic Ranger + Sword of the Arcane Order, but you should also get Magical Training for a spellbook which you've already scribed spells into and should reasonably be able to add more to. You lose proficiency in melee martial weapons, but there are plenty of useful simple weapons (Morningstar, Heavy Mace, spears).

Mystic Ranger gives you Endurance at its 4th level instead of the 3rd. You can go Frostblood Half-Orc from Dragon Magic to start with Endurance, with the built-in allowance that if you would later gain it as a bonus feat you may instead select any other feat you qualify for (SotAO). Use the Half-Humans variant from RoD p150 to still qualify for Magical Training.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The minimalist version of accomplishing this is a simple wiz/clrc/mystic theurge build that casts divine power before or during combat. Full-BAB (from divine power) and both arcane and divine casting. Pick up DMM for either persist or quicken, or sudden quicken to get off divine power without losing any in-combat actions.

If you want to accomplish the task without relying on a spell, then fochlucan lyrist is probably the best bet.

Remember that Bards don't have to sing or play an instrument. Perform (oratory) can be used to give rousing speeches. Perform (acting) can be used to pretend the enemy is much less threatening than they are and inspire <X> that way. Perform (comedy) can be used to mock the enemy and trigger bardic "music" effects, ala spiderman.

Heck, a permissive DM might even allow perform (interpretive dance) to confuse everyone into acting more how the bard wishes. The enemy is too busy trying to put you out of their heads to defend effectively and this manifests as a boost to your allies. (Okay, that one's a bit of a stretch but I'm making a point.)

[Chilingsworth]

Another way to do this (though you'll be light on the arcane part) is to play a cleric with both the magic and spell domains. The magic domain has as its domain power the ability to use spell completion and spell trigger items as a wizard of half level. The spell domain has the spells anyspell and greater anyspell, which let you prepare an arcane spell in your domain spell slot.

Alternatively, you could play an archivist who has picked up the anyspell and greater anyspell spells and be able to do that part more than twice per day.

[Flickerdart]

Lyrist is a great option, but it's really tricky to get into. If you don't mind a bit of subsystem dumpster diving, a Spell-to-Power Erudite is capable of casting any spells as well as psionic powers (though he caps out at 8th level spells without some stinky, dubious cheese) and by taking 10 levels of Slayer, ends up with a respectable base attack bonus of 15 for Erudite 10/Slayer 10.

[andromax]

I fail to see how that applies to the OPs request.

Maybe its a bit over linked, or I should have used blue text.

[chaos_redefined]

Ardent, with the right power/mantle selection, gives you everything you are after... but it'll be messy...

Bard can make a decent warrior, and can cast a small number of arcane spells, including cure spells as arcane.

Cleric with the right domains, or Spirit Shaman, or Wizard with Arcane Disciple, all allow you to pick up all 3 roles that you are after with some buff spells to allow for the warrior role. (Spirit Shaman uses the druid list)

Factotum can do it quite well.

[Hirax]

How set are you on actually having the divine spells being cast as divine spells? Grab the arcane disciple feat (Complete Divine) a couple times and the planar touchstone feat (Planar Handbook, choose catalogs of enlightenment with it), and you'll be able to get lots of cleric spells, though they'll technically be considered arcane when you cast them despite using your wisdom mod for save DCs. Complete Champion has some good divine type variants for wizards. At 5th level, and others where you take a bonus wizard feat, you can instead take a cleric domain power, for instance. I recommend the destiny (Races of Destiny), competition (Spell Compendium), and luck domains as being good choices for arcane disciple and planar touchstone. The competition domain gets you divine power, righteous might, and greater visage of the deity. If you want to be superpowerful, 4 levels of incantatrix can allow these spells to be active all day long.

[Arcanist]

Lyrist is a great option, but it's really tricky to get into. If you don't mind a bit of subsystem dumpster diving, a Spell-to-Power Erudite is capable of casting any spells as well as psionic powers (though he caps out at 8th level spells without some stinky, dubious cheese) and by taking 10 levels of Slayer, ends up with a respectable base attack bonus of 15 for Erudite 10/Slayer 10.




Your training has included basic magical theory as well as the usual psionic training.

Replaces: You lose your 1st-level bonus feat.

Benefit: You add Spellcraft to your class skill list, which allows you to attempt to convert an arcane spell into a power you can add to your repertoire. You treat the spell as a discipline power for the basis of learning it, and you must first succeed on a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level) and then a Psicraft check as per the normal rules of learning a discipline power (see page 154 of Complete Psionic).

Each spell costs a certain number of power points to manifest. The higher the level of the spell, the more power points it costs. The table below describes each spell's cost.

Emphasis on the bolded, I wish that it did that sooo much, because then the StP Erudite would be the Theurge-in-a-can :smallfrown:

EDIT: Chameleon captures the Red Mage as detailed by a Mr. Jaerom Darkwind :smalltongue: I mean you CAN always just go Wizard / Cleric / MT / Legacy Champion for a Theurge with a little more :smallsmile:

[Flickerdart]

Emphasis on the bolded, I wish that it did that sooo much, because then the StP Erudite would be the Theurge-in-a-can :smallfrown:

An enterprising Erudite should have little difficulty when it comes to getting divine spells arcanified for further consumption. Arcane Disciple alone captures a wide swathe of them.

[Arcanist]

An enterprising Erudite should have little difficulty when it comes to getting divine spells arcanified for further consumption. Arcane Disciple alone captures a wide swathe of them.

The amount of effort in performing that would be annoyingly difficult and spell selection is subject to DM's fiat.

This varies from table to table, but I for one, do not allow that sort of thing, otherwise you can run around and find a Wizard with Alternate Spell Source'd (a metamagic might I add) spells scribed into there books... Which is the equivalent of trying to convince your DM that you can scribe Quickened Fireball into your books, but that is hardly the point. I am aware of the alternative methods of converting an Arcane spell to Divine and vice versa (which are NOT metamagics and thus immune to that argument) on that note making this fairly moot and was just me nitpicking so in a way, I just wasted 10 seconds of your life reading this entire message, take that society!

[Selrahc]

Bard=Red mage.

It may cast them as arcane, but the bard has a list with a mix of arcane and divine spells. It also has a modicum of fighting prowess.

The only thing that doesn't really fit is the bardsong.

[Flickerdart]

The amount of effort in performing that would be annoyingly difficult and spell selection is subject to DM's fiat.

This varies from table to table, but I for one, do not allow that sort of thing, otherwise you can run around and find a Wizard with Alternate Spell Source'd (a metamagic might I add) spells scribed into there books... Which is the equivalent of trying to convince your DM that you can scribe Quickened Fireball into your books, but that is hardly the point. I am aware of the alternative methods of converting an Arcane spell to Divine and vice versa (which are NOT metamagics and thus immune to that argument) on that note making this fairly moot and was just me nitpicking so in a way, I just wasted 10 seconds of your life reading this entire message, take that society!
Why would you need to run around anywhere, when there's a perfectly good prestige class called Thrallherd? Just attract a Thrall with some unusual spells and mooch off of him, using Psychic Reformation to make him pick new ones when you've downloaded the ones he already knows. In fact, you can forget the Thrall and just make deals with a bunch of wizards - you use Reformation to let them pick up some really exotic spells, and they let you mooch off of them once they do. Win-win!

[TopCheese]

Gestalt rules may be the answer here...

Gestalt a normal Ranger and a Swordsage.

Swordsage gives you good melee options, "arcane" type attacks, and wis to AC if you stay light armor (get mithril breastplate so you are in "medium" but it counts as light). Oh a crap ton of skills.

Ranger gives you BAB , just as many skills, free feats, and white magic.

Dex, Con, Wis based Red Mage right there. Not the greatest BUT I'm sure you can give up that animal companion for something.

Though making 8 bit theatre redmage would be completely different.

[Ravens_cry]

Admittedly, when I think Red Mage, I think of the guy from 8-bit theatre who is always changing his stats around. So I think of the Chameleon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b) prestige class and/or the Factotum base class. That being said, both could certainly help the concept you seem to have in mind of a jack of many trades.