PDA

View Full Version : Self-Destructive PCs



Morph Bark
2012-12-29, 09:03 AM
Sometimes I think some of my PCs are their own worst enemy.

Last session they came into a town with the four of them (three were absent) and were brought to an inn by one of the town guards, as they didn't entirely trust them at first (the castle the town was built next to had been attacked just prior, and the guards didn't know yet the PCs were the ones to defeat the attackers). The guard, named Bob, then said goodbye to the PCs, shook hands with one of them and took off. The PC then discovered the guard had given him a note about an illegal fighting arena on Hopscotch Alley, as the PC had asked the lieutenant of the guards for such stuff, who told him they would have none of the shady business in town if it were up to him.

The next day, the PCs asked around for directions to Hopscotch Alley, to which the barkeep of the inn started going on about shady business and his son nearly getting stabbed to death there, telling them to stay away from it. They then decided to go to the guardhouse and ask Bob for directions. Arriving there, they start shouting for Bob, which draws out the lieutenant, and one of them outright asks to be taken to Hopscotch Alley. The lieutenant begins an angry tirade against him, while another PC decides to climb the wall to talk to Bob and gives him a note asking about the arena (the PC in question is mute). Another guardsman comes to stand next to Bob, who at this point is in a high state of alert, since he clearly has connections to the illegal fighting arena and doesn't want the other guards to find out.

I save it by having the other guard go "'Ay Bob, what's that say? Ah can't read."

Bob tears up the note and puts it in his pocket and gestures to the PC to get down. He motions at the PC he gave the note to that they should leave (signing with angry gestures, trying not to attract the lieutenant's attention) and they do. The PCs then decide to ask around for directions to Hopscotch Alley and run into a bard who's also passing through the town, who ponders for a moment and tells them "well, I don't know the exact place, but I've heard the rough direction. I'll come along, there might be an inn there and people I could spread my music to! Marvelous!"

The mute PC follows the others while tumbling and stealthing across rooftops until they get to Hopscotch Alley and find a bar there. The four PCs and the bard go inside and the guy who got the note makes mention of the arena, at which point someone grabs him by the arm and tells him to come along if he wants to go there. He tells the other PCs and three of them round a corner and go down a stairs with the man, while one of them stays in the bar since he deems this kind of business too shady for his principles. (Plus he'd only be allowed if he were a competitor, trainer or would place bets. For this reason, one of the other PCs only manages to get in after some half-assed Bluffing that he's the others' trainer.)

They go downstairs, end up in a crowded room with an arena similar to a boxing ring and are told there are bare-knuckle competitions and weapons competitions, but fighters are supposed to fight bare-chested (no armor). The mute PC then takes out his rifle, which startles the man, who tells him that such weapons are not allowed, since it's a ranged weapon and is also much too loud. The PC then decides to fire the gun to prove it's not loud. Instantly the roughly 20 men who are in the room are startled and draw their weapons, looking for the source of the noise, as upstairs the drunk man sitting next to the PC who got left behind falls off his seat, bleeding. The PC manages to bind his wounds in time, but downstairs hell breaks loose as the others don't manage to diffuse the situation at all and are swarmed by the mob. Meanwhile, the bar clears out of customers while the bard stands frozen in fear in a corner.

The PCs retreat up the stairs and outside, but one of them fails to make it out before he gets surrounded by the mob (this is the PC who got the note, who is prettymuch the group's meat shield and a very effective one at that). He attacks the floor with a Mountain Hammer and falls through along with several victims, right into the arena below. The PC who stayed behind upstairs then comes back in, after having donned his power suit (he plays a homebrew class based off Samus Aran), shoots down one of the biggest thugs and stands before the only door that leads out. A third of the mob, not familiar with this sort of thing, flees back down the stairs, while another third was already doing this to go after the guy who dropped through the floor. The people on the stairs, who have no idea what is happening upstairs, are still trying to get up and thus block the way of the others.

The PC who fell into the hole then decides there is no way he's getting out of this alive, rolls a Knowledge (architecture and engineering) check, finds a load-bearing pillar and begins to wail away on it. Then the PC upstairs walks towards the hole and shoots the pillar with a beam that bypasses hardness, deals double damage to objects and sets things on fire.

The building comes crashing down as the fire spreads and the pillar is sundered, no longer able to bear the weight. The two PCs are buried, but one of them (the power suit guy) is dug out by the remaining two PCs just in time (with one of the others nearly dying to the flames himself) and the other managing to do so a little later, easily surviving the flames and crushing weight of the house, even emerging with the guy who took them down the stairs, whom he found somewhere in the rubble as he dug his way out. They deliver him to some medics and then want to go back to the inn, but change their plan immediately when the mute PC follows the medics to the hospital to get himself patched up too.


At this point I should probably mention that three of the four PCs are angels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252925). The session was an hour longer than our usual sessions and prettymuch everything came up on the fly.

Slipperychicken
2012-12-29, 09:15 AM
These PCs are truly incredible. They managed to take a situation in which they had no enemies or obstacles, then come out of it barely-alive and on fire, with their reputations ruined and none of their goals accomplished.

It's guys like this who make starting at level 1 make sense. There's no way someone would make it to 9th level acting the way many PCs do.

Kelb_Panthera
2012-12-29, 12:30 PM
Wow. I get a little wreckless sometimes, but that's just nuts.

Did the player ever explain what exactly made him think that firing that rifle was a good idea?

smashbro
2012-12-29, 01:15 PM
Well, that sounds like fun times, and pretty much in line with our group here.


One time, we are about to go into town, and a shady guy asks us to bring in a few barrels through a checkpoint for him. Against our better judgement, we said yes (personally, I knew it couldn't be good, but hey, a plot hook).

We try to go through a checkpoint, and the guards look at the barrels. And would you look at that, alcohol is illegal in this town, and we're sentenced to a lifetime in jail, or death, I forget which.

I personally think, 'Oh great, roleplaying. I'm a bard, we can talk our way out of this.' The guards start bringing us to jail, at which point one of our rogues decides it is a good time to sneak attack one of the guards.

There are about... 7 of us (bard, rogue, cleric, rogue, sorceress, fighter, commoner). Half of the group looks at the guy in real life, asking how in the world he would ever think that was a good idea. After some discussion, half of the group says they don't want to fight the guards, the other half does.

So my bard, the cleric and the other rogue walk into the jail, walk into a cell, and shut the door behind us, telling every NPC along the way "This is not our fault, we're being good prisoners."

I had to leave soon after this, but I hear that by the end of the adventure, the entire town guard died, then the party had to resurrect the leader of the town guard to fight the big bad, and after the fight, the party killed him again. Yeah.


This is the same group that destroyed an entire town (again, when I wasn't there) after convincing the people of the town (who were suffering from a plague) that they had the cure (by which they meant 100 wands with 3 charges of who knows what spell). It started with a magic missile to the face... and went downhill from there.


Oh, and just in case no one has heard of this before, Butter Pranking someone is filling a bag of holding with butter. and throwing it at someone. Like a king.


So, in summary, I completely familiar with the groups who act against their better judgement.

Alejandro
2012-12-29, 01:45 PM
I think the problem is your players, not the PCs. How old are they, on average?

Morph Bark
2012-12-29, 05:10 PM
Did the player ever explain what exactly made him think that firing that rifle was a good idea?

I think he just wasn't thinking at the moment, though it may well have been in-character for him. The character is also mute and wanted to make a statement, which... wasn't the smartest way to do it considering the environment.


I think the problem is your players, not the PCs. How old are they, on average?

Youngest player is 19, oldest is 24, and we're all in university-level educations, aside from me.

But everyone knows once you start RPing your IQ drops by 40 points. :smalltongue:

Alejandro
2012-12-29, 06:06 PM
Oh, I wasn't asking in order to determine educational level. I've found over the years that formal educational level doesn't have much effect on player skill and ability. I was more asking to determine maturity, which isn't linked to age. :)

RoyVG
2012-12-30, 09:48 AM
These PCs are truly incredible. They managed to take a situation in which they had no enemies or obstacles, then come out of it barely-alive and on fire, with their reputations ruined and none of their goals accomplished.

It's guys like this who make starting at level 1 make sense. There's no way someone would make it to 9th level acting the way many PCs do.

I'll take that as a compliment :smallbiggrin:.


Oh, I wasn't asking in order to determine educational level. I've found over the years that formal educational level doesn't have much effect on player skill and ability. I was more asking to determine maturity, which isn't linked to age. :)

I'm the oldest of the group and the 'Samus-powersuit' guy in this equation. We started out with a small amount of information about a tournament, and one of the PC's wanted the others to join in. I was the only one that refused to fight, but I went along, fearing the stupidities my fellow angels would commit. One of them plays a 'dumb' angel, complete with speaking in third person about himself, and he does so quite good. The other one is a mute, Chaotic? Neutral (borderline evil, apparently) angel, who, I think, does not always thinks about the consequences of his action in-character, but also not always IRL. He was the one with the gun.

During most of the conversations, I've stayed out of it, mostly because I didn't want to have anything to do with illegal fighting tournament. I also never entered the basement, sitting at the bar instead while they were doing their business. After some time, the gun was shot and the guy next to was bleeding to death, a lucky Heal check saved his life for now. I wasn';t really suprised that it happened, but when the other PC's were running out of the basement, I also stood up and left the building. My non-angel friend was trapped in the building, the 'dumb' angel was running away to get help, and the mute one was climbing on the roof of the same building, trying to snipe some of the thugs, [b]who were still in the building[b]. I decided to help him by equiping the suit and shooting down the ones that block his path. When I did, he already fell down the hole. Trying to help him, I shot down the supporting pillar that he was hitting as well, to speed up the process. After getting flattended by the building, I managed to free myself with the help of the other angels and my bomb ability. The non-angel also grabbed on of the thugs from under the rubble, saving his life, upon which the mute angel started to aim his gun at the thug. Seeing this, I aimed at him and threathened to shoot him instead (which is not the first), and the non-angel turned himself around to protect the thug. He then lowered his gun again, meaning he made at least one smart decision this session.

Alejandro
2012-12-30, 11:35 AM
I'll take that as a compliment :smallbiggrin:.



I'm the oldest of the group and the 'Samus-powersuit' guy in this equation. We started out with a small amount of information about a tournament, and one of the PC's wanted the others to join in. I was the only one that refused to fight, but I went along, fearing the stupidities my fellow angels would commit. One of them plays a 'dumb' angel, complete with speaking in third person about himself, and he does so quite good. The other one is a mute, Chaotic? Neutral (borderline evil, apparently) angel, who, I think, does not always thinks about the consequences of his action in-character, but also not always IRL. He was the one with the gun.

Thank you for the very useful information. It sounds like the problem is a mix of 'stupid' player characters (stupid as in low intellect)and a group that made PCs that don't have much reason to get along (you yourself said you went along basically to try and prevent the others from doing something stupid.)

I suggest the GM and players rework things together to make the PCs get along better, and be a little less anti-social in game.

hymer
2012-12-30, 11:38 AM
@ Alejandro: Unless, of course, they're all having fun as is. :smallsmile:

Morph Bark
2012-12-30, 12:47 PM
@ Alejandro: Unless, of course, they're all having fun as is. :smallsmile:

Considering half the fun things in the game result from their hijinks, there's no trouble with this OOCly, only ICly. The player who fired the gun also told me he was very much aware it would not be a smart thing to do, but decided "eff it, it suits my character".

In a previous campaign (journal here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192028)) it was even "worse", as two PCs were openly trying to kill one another at nearly every opportunity, the gun-toting player played a similar character and more than one PC had a tendency to crash their ship into buildings, other ships or creatures.

The only things that might be objectively worse than that campaign would be that we're not as far yet, that they have this capability for hijinks at a mere average party level of 3, and that the PCs have more severe flaws. For example, the non-angel in this story has such a bad sense for direction that he needs to roll 1d8 to decide the direction he's going in if he's alone; the PC who talks in third person is addicted to alcohol and has passed out because of it upon multiple occassions; and the mute PC is also addicted to thievery (making Will saves if the temptation might be too great, he doesn't normally do it).

Also, one of the PCs who wasn't present the last session is a baron of a small nearby village and owns a demon-possessed pig that is soul-bound to him to go on rampages sometimes when he uses his own demonic class abilities and has been told that if his pig ever dies that Cthulhu will show up to eat him.

On account of them not having much reason to get along... it usually starts out as being necessary for survival in our campaigns, then later on they stick together because they're used to one another and have risked their lives with. This campaign started out as one of the PCs being saved from a polar bear by the angels and being taken to a Jotun village where they met the rest of the fledgeling party. The previous one they all started out as prisoners on a ship they took over together.

For us, this is about par for the course, though to be honest this is the first time they actually set something on fire (on purpose). Our campaigns are the babies of Epic Battles and Wacky Hijinks, sprinkled with Deadly Traps and Disturbing Villains.

KotserB
2012-12-30, 01:27 PM
¡Ola señores y señoritas!
Me llamo Santos, el angel stupido.

Yes we are kind of destructive.
Apparently we like screwing around.
My character likes to take things very literally and as the only one with respectable Charisma I like to talk a lot.
I also have 8 INT and WIS (which is FUN, because you can say all kinds of stupid stuff, like believing that 'hold-on-a-moment' is actually the name of a guard).
So if our meatshield tells me not to mention Hopscotch Alley because it's a secret I tell people that Santos cannot tell place because is secret and Santos not tell secrets.

Anyway, we like to screw around ALWAYS ending up with slapstick stuff and getting ourselves into trouble. I usually try not to overdo it, but the it lies not within my powers to stop a gunshot.

Ooh and @Morth Bark: I am NOT a university student.

TuggyNE
2012-12-30, 06:32 PM
I also have 8 INT and WIS (which is FUN, because you can say all kinds of stupid stuff, like believing that 'hold-on-a-moment' is actually the name of a guard).
So if our meatshield tells me not to mention Hopscotch Alley because it's a secret I tell people that Santos cannot tell place because is secret and Santos not tell secrets.

Uhhh... having an 8 in a mental ability score is nowhere near that severe. That's more like 5 or 6 at most.

Alejandro
2012-12-30, 06:37 PM
Yeah. An average person is a 10. An 8 or 9 is someone slightly ignorant. If we are being literal, anyway :)

Jay R
2012-12-30, 07:19 PM
Sometimes I think some of my PCs are their own worst enemy.

My first thought was that the DM hadn't provided them a suitable enemy.

Then I read the scenario. Do these tactics lead to character death on a regular basis?

If so, then they don't learn quickly.

If not, then there is no reason for them to change.

This is the main reason I can't accept the idea that PCs should never die. If they never die, then there is no reason to stop acting like this.

Slipperychicken
2012-12-30, 07:57 PM
Uhhh... having an 8 in a mental ability score is nowhere near that severe. That's more like 5 or 6 at most.

Agreed. 8 is very slightly below average, only imposing a -1 to Intelligence rolls, which really isn't immediately noticeable in practice. It doesn't even reflect ignorance, that would be a lack of Knowledge ranks.

A person with 8 intelligence would most likely be assumed to be "average" by most people he meets, since the difference (-1) is so slight.

Morph Bark
2012-12-30, 08:02 PM
My first thought was that the DM hadn't provided them a suitable enemy.

Then I read the scenario. Do these tactics lead to character death on a regular basis?

The times they are provided with a suitable enemy, the major difference is simply that more of them end up near-death. But not that many more. :smalltongue:

So far, only one PC has died because of things like this, and that's because he was thrown out of the house of an NPC who was angry with him, while said PC was unconscious and he froze to death outside, 'sfar as I can recall. Besides that, I can only recall two other actual PC deaths that occurred with this group while I DM'd. The first was a PC rescuing another from certain death in a deadly underwater blender, the second was a PC being eaten alive by a dragon (and killing the dragon post-mortem).

Kelb_Panthera
2012-12-30, 09:39 PM
OMG! You actually got a PC with the exposure to weather rules!? That's freakin' awesome! *laughs hysterically*


........ you made me use a text message abbreviation. :smallannoyed::smalltongue:

Chilingsworth
2012-12-30, 09:42 PM
So far, only one PC has died because of things like this, and that's because he was thrown out of the house of an NPC who was angry with him, while said PC was unconscious and he froze to death outside, 'sfar as I can recall. Besides that, I can only recall two other actual PC deaths that occurred with this group while I DM'd. The first was a PC rescuing another from certain death in a deadly underwater blender, the second was a PC being eaten alive by a dragon (and killing the dragon post-mortem).

Well, that's one heck of a case of indigestion! Serriously, how?

Amidus Drexel
2012-12-30, 11:34 PM
Well, that's one heck of a case of indigestion! Serriously, how?

My guess is poison or armour spikes.

Arbane
2012-12-31, 01:34 AM
It's guys like this who make starting at level 1 make sense. There's no way someone would make it to 9th level acting the way many PCs do.

I dunno. One guy in the group I'm in plays a Kamikaze Dumbass, and despite having the impulse control of a ferret on crack and a penchant for wandering off alone, he's made it from level 2 to 11. I think he only survives because he amuses the GM so much.

Normally, it's not too bad, but we really, REALLY, need a way to make him shut up when the group's face is trying to be diplomatic.

The New Bruceski
2012-12-31, 05:58 AM
Sounds like the kind of thing that would drive me nuts (though if it was the right group of people I could see myself willingly making a straight man PC) but as long as the party's on the same page it sounds like a hoot.

Morph Bark
2012-12-31, 06:25 AM
OMG! You actually got a PC with the exposure to weather rules!? That's freakin' awesome! *laughs hysterically*


........ you made me use a text message abbreviation. :smallannoyed::smalltongue:

I feel no shame in that. :smallbiggrin:

I did get the PCs some warm, protective coats after that (the NPC who threw him out was the caretaker of a bear they killed to get the necessary fur for the coats), as otherwise there were only two PCs who were unaffected by the cold due to racial abilities.


Well, that's one heck of a case of indigestion! Serriously, how?

My guess is poison or armour spikes.

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11695291#post11695291), under "DM's Perspective". Posting in that thread would be necromancy at this point, but you're free to respond in here.

Long story short, it was an exploding bag of holding. :smallwink:


Sounds like the kind of thing that would drive me nuts (though if it was the right group of people I could see myself willingly making a straight man PC) but as long as the party's on the same page it sounds like a hoot.

That's basically RoyVG's role in the group. His problem is mainly that he's powerless to stop the others, so he just tries his best to stop them from destroying/killing the wrong things and deliver deadpan humour.

The other players tend to stick to single concepts as well, but played out very differently from one character to the next. When they're all together, I could easily call them the Seven Deadly Sins and it'd be sorta true, though they're deadly mostly to each other.

RoyVG
2012-12-31, 10:20 AM
Long story short, it was an exploding bag of holding. :smallwink:

And I'm still proud of that achievement.


That's basically RoyVG's role in the group. His problem is mainly that he's powerless to stop the others, so he just tries his best to stop them from destroying/killing the wrong things and deliver deadpan humour.

The two other angels originally started out as my companions, to help me test and develop a new type of technology (the Metroid-Battlesuit-thingy AKA my class). Apparently one of them has a secret agenda or something (the mute one), and the other one left the Angel's plane of origin, because he wanted to. Due to some higher-up, I'm stuck with them now, and I should at least take care of them, one way or another. Even if I want them dead, I can't do it, because some sadistic SOB higher-up angel assigned them to me. So I'll just have to do my best to prevent any kind of trouble.


The other players tend to stick to single concepts as well, but played out very differently from one character to the next. When they're all together, I could easily call them the Seven Deadly Sins and it'd be sorta true, though they're deadly mostly to each other.

Nice analogy, considering we actually are a 7-man party, and a DM. :smallbiggrin:

Amidus Drexel
2012-12-31, 11:08 AM
Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11695291#post11695291), under "DM's Perspective". Posting in that thread would be necromancy at this point, but you're free to respond in here.

Long story short, it was an exploding bag of holding. :smallwink:


That is hilarious! :smallbiggrin:

Guizonde
2013-01-01, 12:11 PM
reminds me of my first pen and paper game... i was a baby troll (8ft tall, basically) with 4int 24str, 22con, 3wis... perfectly logical to actually eat a barkeep and use a ceiling beam as a weapon. the dice would have it that everytime i needed a ceiling beam i ripped out a load-bearing one, or a support beam... 5 buildings later, still alive, with over half the town wanting to kill me... i found the experience so fun that i wanted to do it again (devil-dare, mostly) until the dm curbed my enthusiasm.

on the other hand, i was playing in a serious campaign where the warrior was well thought out and optimized. i was a paladin, there was a monk, a bard, and a wardancer. for some reason, the warrior charged a (boss-level) ghost with his scabbard. he dropped the sword (willingly) and rushed some monstrosity using his scabbard.

it was so illogical (and his rolls so abysmal) the dm made him suffer something like 4d20 damage. once in a while, it pays off for the dm to actually ramp up the difficulty until either tpk or wising-up happens.

Arcane_Snowman
2013-01-01, 02:36 PM
Reminds me a bit of one my players, in the (relatively) short time in which he has been playing, I've managed to kill him at least three times. What makes it worse, for me at least, is that it has never been intentional on my part.

Guizonde
2013-01-01, 10:33 PM
just thought about it:

what if there is a reason that the player wants to roll with such and such character?

a warrior who's lacking in the physical department, and who's got sky-high charisma and/ or wisdom is horribly unoptimized stats-wise, but pure rp-fodder.

likewise, why does the player want to play a ninja-zombie-pirate-robot? cool factor? munchkinry gone awry?

what i'm saying is boils down to what if it's voluntary "weakening" instead of a cruel lack of judgement? (i am guilty way too often of the latter, but the former did happen albeit more rarely)

GM.Casper
2013-01-02, 05:49 AM
The party Wizard receives a letter from an old friend asking for help so he, the Rouge and the Dwarf fighter head for the city. The merchant explains them that the local crime boss wants him to sell off his textile manufactory (at a loss) and is now harassing the merchant. So the PC's investigate the manufactory (they correctly deducted that the recent sabotage of the machinery must have been an inside job from one of the workers) but don't find anything.

Next night two thugs show up at the merchants house and start throwing rocks in the windows. Unfortunately for them, the first rock smashes the guest room window, waking the Wizard who then proceeds to smack them down with telekinesis. Guards soon show up but the merchant persuades them to let the PCs interrogate the captives for a few minutes first. Having learned the address of the local crime boss called 'Johny', they decide to pay him an immediate midnight visit.

Smashing in the door, they fight their way trough half a dozen goons. But by the time they reach the second floor, Johny has already fled trough his bedroom window. Angry, the PCs grabbed a few things that looked valuable and set the bed on fire. Then they dragged the one surviving henchman in the nearby alley for a quick interrogation.

Rather soon thought Johny returned with backup- and saw that the upper floor is now in flames. As they are distracted by the fire, the PCs decide to attack again. Soon Johny is disarmed and his goons dead. Of course by then the house is in flames, the entire street is waking up and squads of guards are approaching. So the PCs grab Johny and the henchman and run for it.

Returning at the merchants house, they stash both tied-up captives in wine cellar and go to sleep. By mid-noon the merchant angrily wakes them up and demands to know what they did, because the authorities are now searching for a 'dwarf arsonist and a deranged wizard' (Rogue is amused because he apparently managed to stay unnoticed) who reportedly burned down the house of a 'reputable businessman' and then massacred a number of 'concerned citizens' who had tried to put the fire out. The Wizard however manages to calm him down and promises not to get his friend in trouble for sheltering wanted criminals.

So they go back to the wine cellar to interrogate the captives. The henchman has bled to death (they hadn't bothered to treat his wounds), but after the Wizard threatens Johny with unspeakable magicks, the prisoner tells them who is the big boss of crime is in the city. The PCs then discuss killing Johny- they don't want to let him go, but neither can they turn to the authorities any more. But then Johny starts to plead for his life and manages to talk the PCs into joining forces with him (I actually managed to persuade the players in character). He will help them to instigate a gang war and take all the city's crime groups down in one fell swoop, in return he gets 10% of the loots and promises to retire from life of crime (in truth Johny was planing to just use the PCs to take down Big Boss and then dispose of them in turn).
A plan is hashed out (players spent close to a hour discussing it).

Once they come up, the worried merchant asks what they are up to now.
Wizard: "Don't worry about it. Now, can we borrow your wagon? We have corpse to dispose of."

Waiting till dark, they load the dead henchman in the wagon and take it to the river. But just as they are about to dump the corpse, a patrolman shows up and blows a whistle. The PCs abandon the wagon and the body and run away.

Next day, Johny is released and goes to a street healer he knows to set up an alibi for himself. The PCs decide to head over to Big Boss. Using the code word Johny gave them, they bluff their way in. While the Dwarf and the Rogue wait in the entrance hall, the Wizard reports to the Boss that some 'unknown party' attacked Johny house the previous night, and they three are the only ones of Johny's subordinates who survived.
"There was a dozen of them! And they had powerful magics!"
In the end Boss actually gives the Wizard a bag of money and tasks him with finding out who where those mysterious attackers.

And then Wizard suddenly decides to abandon the plan and just throws a fireball at the Big Boss back while their both walking down the hallway. He is of course magically protected and a fight breaks out with the PCs barely getting out of the house.

When they get back home, they see that the merchant is now being questioned by a guard captain about where is the dwarf that was reportedly living in the merchant's house and why one of the merchant's wagons was found at the riverside with a dead body in it. More soldiers arrive and report to the captain that 'the mad arsonist dwarf and his accomplices' have struck again and just attacked the house of one the city's premiere patricians and general manhunt has been declared for the criminals.

Realizing that in just three days they have managed to get in trouble with both the authorities and the criminal underworld, they decide to flee the city. Luckily for them Johny (who now just wants to cover up his involvement in the now aborted plot against his boss) offers to smuggle them out of city walls.

Kane0
2013-01-02, 06:04 AM
Wow, thats a pretty good story.

If I were as good a DM as you, that would be kind of normal for my guys. As it is, they don't do anything like that because I cannot pull stuff out of my ass that quickly, or bail them out along the way.

OrlockDelesian
2013-01-03, 11:11 PM
Well, this happened today:

A group of PCs, try to enter the the most stuck up elven kingdom in the world. They Are Racists towards humans, dwarves and even elves unless they are from their own Kingdom.
After a long debate with the elven guards
"I cannot trust you to enter!" The guard Says. "You are humans, and I have seen everything the humans can do!"
"Have you seen an Elf like me before?" the desguised drow elf of the Company says while he removes his hood.

Imagine what happened.

TuggyNE
2013-01-04, 01:12 AM
Well, this happened today:

A group of PCs, try to enter the the most stuck up elven kingdom in the world. They Are Racists towards humans, dwarves and even elves unless they are from their own Kingdom.
After a long debate with the elven guards
"I cannot trust you to enter!" The guard Says. "You are humans, and I have seen everything the humans can do!"
"Have you seen an Elf like me before?" the desguised drow elf of the Company says while he removes his hood.

Imagine what happened.

That's amazing.

Morph Bark
2013-01-20, 10:41 AM
So now three weeks have passed, and we had another session yesterday.

And dear lord was it bad. Hilarious fun, but so, so bad.

I should probably start with a proper introduction of the party to give better insight into the situation. The party is the following:
Skarr, Human Shield Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192533) 4
Faronel, Angel Chozo Warrior 3
Santos, Angel Debaser (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7624907) 3
Rogunel, Angel Thief-Acrobat (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Thief-Acrobat_(3.5e_Class)) 3
Baron Pjotr, Human Harrowed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188148) 3
Dr. Grutenstein, Jotun Xenoalchemist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205119) 3
Zenkiki, Jotun Witch Doctor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198321) 2

Skarr is the one who destroyed the pillar supporting the inn/illegal fighting ring in the last session, Varonel is the angel who set it on fire, Rogunel is the mute angel with the rifle, Santos is Santos (also sometimes the party face due to his high Diplomacy), Baron Pjotr was absent in that session (and also the only one not present in the one that I will speak of), Dr Grutenstein and Zenkiki were absent in the last session and are a pair of jotun brothers who both have medical degrees in different fields. Dr Grutenstein has a bit of a mad scientist personality, while Zenkiki is more zany and fond of brewing vodka, like he used to do with his father. (During the session the players also noted that this was the first all-male party in our campaigns so far.)

As for the session...

I started off with having Dr Grutenstein tell me what he did while the others went into town and eventually destroyed an inn, so he described how he first went to collect parts of some monsters they had slain at the end of the session before the last one, and then went to the town hospital to offer his services as a doctor. He got a temporary pass and ended up giving an amputee a new arm, all hairy and clawed. The next day, as he was allowed to sleep at the hospital as an attending doctor, he discovered the hospital had a Psychiatric Ward in the basement and decided to go in there, finding only a man sitting in a chair reading a newspaper in front of a few locked doors. He talked with him for a while, asking to see "Patient #5" and was told that one was gone since a few days, so he then instead asked for "Patient #10". He was allowed in after showing his pass and convincing the man that "Xenobiology" means "brain specialist".

He went through a door, ending up in a hallway with several locked doors to patients' rooms, was led to the last one in the hall and the guy held it open for him. The Doctor asked for the patient's file to check up on some things and then the door was closed and locked behind him.

Grutenstein then proceeded to talk to the man, who was bound with leather straps to the wall, asking him who he hated most in life, was told "my ex-father-in-law" and then proceeded to insult the man and his former personal relationships. The man tried to break loose and got an arm free, upon which Grutenstein shot him in the arm with a crossbow he'd had concealed under his white coat. The man's eyes began to glow and he broke loose, became encased in hulking brass armor and began to pound away at Grutenstein, who attempted to get in another shot and another as he screamed for someone to come free him from the locked room. Luckily for him, he managed to subdue the man and proceeded to cut open his head and take out his brains. He then sewed his head back together, put the brain inside his backpack and waited for the man to come back with the file. When he did, he got the file and, as the man tried to hoist the patient back into his restraints, told him "don't worry about him, he's dead". Then he walked away while the man stood aghast, looking at the patient's corpse.

Grutenstein then proceeded to the hospital exit, but stopped as he passed a room in which a patient was being treated by a nurse. The nurse welcomed him heartily, telling him he'd been waiting for him, then gave him some salve to apply to the patient and work his doctor magic on the patient's burn wounds. Grutenstein, still bruised up from the struggle, asked the patient to go get more salve (so he could apply some to himself), thinking he could use the time in which the nurse was gone to replace the patient's brain with the one he had just acquired. The nurse, however, got someone else to go get more salve, so Grutenstein simply ended up applying some to himself and the patient. He then walked out, tired, and passed a room where he saw some of his companions lying around (Faronel, Santos, Rogunel and Skarr). He walked in, yelling out his greetings and waking up Rogunel and Faronel, who told him to take one of the beds and go to sleep.

At this point Zenkiki's player arrived, and we worked out that Zenkiki had just travelled along with the others during the sessions the player wasn't present and thus had been staying at the same inn as the others before they had run off and burned another inn. Zenkiki had been out foraging for potion materials that morning and the previous day, and when he returned, he found the inn on fire. (Note: this is not the same inn as the one that was on fire in the last session.) Zenkiki cried out in terror, afraid the others were still inside, as well as some of his belongings, so he was quick to jump into the line with buckets to aid in putting out the fire, until it finally was three hours later. Not finding any of his friends among the wounded, he want to the hospital, knowing he could find his brother there, undoubtedly. He arrived and the jotun brothers shared a hug.

In the meantime, Rogunel had gone looking for the man Skarr had saved from the wrecked-and-burning inn/illegal fighting ring, planning to kill him (this was the primary reason Rogunel had followed the doctors to the hospital, after all, with the others following only because they thought it would be a smart idea to get patched up first). Skarr followed him to make sure he wouldn't do anything bad, so Rogunel went into the toilet room and exited via the window, climbing along the hospital walls and checking through windows to find the guy. Skarr realized in time Rogunel was taking too long and started looking for the man as well, finding him just before Rogunel and moving to stand with his shield between the window and the man's bed. Rogunel quickly aborted the plan and went to the hospital entrance, where he met with the others.

The party gathered, they wandered what to do next. Grutenstein and Zenkiki went to one of the shopping streets that Zenkiki had found on his way to the hospital, and they found a belt maker willing to part with two Belts of Healing -- though he first mistook Grutenstein's "I need a belt that makes me feel more alive" as asking for a belt of youth that reduced Grutenstein to a young jotun boy upon putting it on, making Zenkiki slap the salesman, as he thought it was permanent.

Skarr and Faronel also went shopping and visited a blacksmith, where Skarr wanted to commission a shield. He offered him a looted greatsword, a silver necklace he had looted off an enemy officer once, a banner and a special horn. The jotun smith identified the horn as being special, and said he would show what it was capable of if he could get the banner and necklace for free. He then showed that if the part of the horn where you blow it was covered and then a command word was spoken, it would fill up with water or vodka. Knowing that Zenkiki loved vodka and Santos to be an alcoholic, Skarr decided to part with the horn in return for a better shield.

The party then met up again at the town square, where Rogunel spotted a boy selling newspapers. He bought one for a silver piece and read through it.

Serial Killer Still On The Loose!

Arsonist Settles Inn!

Smugglers Rumoured Hiding in Sewers!

With the party seeming to believe the arsonry case to not be of interest to them to solve due to being involved in one such case, Skarr says that they should investigate the case of the smuggle gang. Zenkiki denies that, saying he doesn't want to get into the sewers, but that they should investigate the murders. They reach a compromise by going for the killer first, and then after the smugglers.

The party goes to the house of the captain of the guard, who is mentioned as the last victim of the murders. Only the maid is home, as the widow is away staying with family while she mourns. It takes a bit of convincing to get her to even consider letting in the "investigators", until Skarr intimidates her. (He started off by talking before making his Diplomacy check, but I told him that his words were much more like intimidation than diplomacy.) She lets in Rogunel and Santos, as the party decides that Rogunel is the best at searching for clues, while Santos is the most charismatic and could get the maid to help. Rogunel goes inside first, but when Santos enters, he wants to be let out again right away to ask the others what he needs to do, having already forgotten it. In the meantime, Rogunel, being left along, wanders into the captain's study room and steals some crystal statuettes. When Santos and the maid return, he comes along with them to the bedchamber, where the captain was killed, being found in the morning by his wife when she woke up next to him and found him with a knife in his heart.

The maid goes back downstairs to prepare a meal as Rogunel finds a vague footprint left on the windowsill. Santos goes to inform the maid, who then offers to make some tea for them. As Santos is downstairs, Rogunel picks the lock, makes a quick print of the footprint, climbs out of the window and onto the roof and starts searching for more footprints. As Santos returns upstairs, he finds the window open and Rogunel gone, so he goes back downstairs and informs the maid of this. She runs upstairs, finds the window open (which was supposed to be closed and locked) and starts making a fuss, telling Santos she wants him out of the house. Santos starts calling for Rogunel, which the rest of the party also hears, so Rogunel returns inside and the maid starts yelling for them to get out of the house or she'll call the guards. Rogunel tries to go out the window again, to which the maid says that he should get out the front door like a normal person. Faronel comes around the corner and aims his arm-cannon at Rogunel and tells him to go out the normal way. They go downstairs and when the door is opened Skarr and the jotuns come in. At this point the maid grabs a broom and starts hitting Rogunel and Santos, and when Skarr tries to grab one of them to pull them out and tells her to calm down, she hits him as well with a natural 20, ending up dealing 2 damage to all three of them.

They get out and decide to go to the house of another victim, one of the town's priests (they had found out earlier from the maid that the captain, two priests, the baroness' old butler and the town crier had all been killed in the past month). They get no response at the door there, so they move on to the other priest's house, but they hear a scream on the way there, coming from another one of the temple-houses. Rogunel quickly climbs through the window as Skarr charges and breaks down the door, followed by the others. Rogunel sees the priest in a rocking chair with a knife in his chest, a cloaked man standing next to him, and an acolyte boy standing in the open doorway, right as the cloaked man lunges for the boy with his knife. He shoots the man, but fails to prevent him from stabbing the boy, and then gets a knife thrown at him. At that point Skarr barges in and attacks the man, followed by Faronel shooting the man, setting him on fire with one of his beams attacks. He then stabilizes the boy with a Blessed Bandage and Grutenstein sets to work to heal the cloaked man. Then a duo of guards come in, one of them Bob. Bob is told to get the boy to the hospital, and the other guard takes the cloaked man away, even though Grutenstein tries to convince him he'd die if moved.

The party follows the guard to the guardhouse, where they talk to the receptionist to try and get a reward for apprehending the killer. They are led to a waiting room, after which a lieutenant comes in and tells them to lay off their weapons and come along, as they'd like to question them about what had happened. I go by each of the players, who all offer a story of what went on in the temple-house, finishing with Santos, who starts off by talking about what happened at the captain's house.

At this point the guards questioning them take a short break, then return with additional questions after having talked to each other (and also finding out about what the suspected killer's story on the whole ordeal is). Rogunel and Santos are faced with charges of theft and breaking (even though Rogunel was technically breaking out rather than in), Faronel becomes a suspect for the three cases of inn arsonry, Rogunel is a suspect of the murder cases (the guy they apprehended having spun a tale about how he was there as a visiting acolyte from another temple when he saw Rogunel do it and the guards even know Rogunel has several daggers on him, even though they're still concealed), Grutenstein is faced with a doctor from the hospital who has legally declared him insane because he stole a patient's brain, Zenkiki refuses to speak and is therefore faced with charges of guilty-by-association and obstruction of justice and Skarr receives 2000 gp for bringing in two very likely suspects in the murder case.

Skarr then proceeds to tell the guards Rogunel couldn't have killed the last priest, as he was with him when they heard the scream, but the charge of theft still stands. Faronel is offered a deal that if he confesses to the arsonry cases that he will get a lighter sentence, and further leniency if he testifies against Rogunel and Santos. He confesses to being guilty of one case of arsonry (the one in the previous session), but having proof he couldn't have done it the other times and being willing to aid in helping solve those cases. He further states that he won't testify against Rogunel and Santos, as he thinks those charges are unfounded (Rogunel's kleptomania is unknown to the other PCs at this point). After further deliberation, the guards decide to let Zenkiki, Skarr and Faronel go, as Grutenstein is moved to the Psychiatric Ward, becoming the new Patient #10 and Rogunel and Santos are taken to the prisons, where they see someone who looks very much like Pjotr in one of the other cells...


At this point I wanted to call it a night, having got a perfect cliffhanger, but the players wanted to keep going. Skarr and Faronel go to talk to the doctor who declared Grutenstein insane, and Skarr intimidates the receptionist and the doctor into trying to get his way, but ultimately doesn't get Grutenstein out of it and tells the doctor he'll be back the next day.

Zenkiki meanwhile takes to the shops and buys a disguise kit, disguises himself as a woman, including wearing a wig and garters. He then goes into the hospital and puts on an act as Grutenstein's tearful fiancee, who wants to see him one last time and say her final goodbyes, as she'll never see him again now that he's in the Psychiatric Ward. The receptionist (a different one than the one Skarr intimidated, as that one peed his pants and had to go change) eventually breaks down with Zenkiki's incessant crying and pleading and brings him down to the basement, where he leaves him with the newspaper-reading guard. He lets Zenkiki into Patient #10's room, with Grutenstein immediately realizing what is going on and giving a fake tearful welcome. The guard then locks the door as the jotun brothers are reunited and begin to hatch a plan of escape.

Amidus Drexel
2013-01-20, 10:51 AM
That is hilarious! :smallbiggrin:

Ah, yes, arson: a sure sign that the PCs have been there.

This puts the shenanigans of the party I DM'd a while ago to shame.

Morph Bark
2013-01-20, 06:15 PM
It gets better: for their next characters, Santos' player will make a Machiavellian social manipulator, and Grutenstein's player will make a Stoner. No, seriously, that's literally the name of the class he'll be playing.

RoyVG
2013-01-21, 04:22 PM
Ah, yes, arson: a sure sign that the PCs have been there.

*waves hand*

Long story short, we have 3 players out of jail and 3-4 IN jail. We need to find a way to get them out... TPK incoming.

Guizonde
2013-01-21, 05:58 PM
*waves hand*

Long story short, we have 3 players out of jail and 3-4 IN jail. We need to find a way to get them out... TPK incoming.


:elan: great idea!
what is this tpk you speak of? code for MOAR DYNAMITE?!

[/memetic mutation]:smallbiggrin:

Amidus Drexel
2013-01-21, 09:29 PM
*waves hand*

Long story short, we have 3 players out of jail and 3-4 IN jail. We need to find a way to get them out... TPK incoming.

...you could burn down the jail....

Seriously though (well... :smallamused:), does anyone have access to stone shape? (through scrolls, probably). If the prison is stone, then you should be able to get out easily.

You could always kill the guards and break eveything else... Hrm... I'm trying to think of what the party I DM'd a while back did to get out of trouble...

I think they mostly just pointed the evoker and cleric at the problem and lightning-bolted and flame-striked it to death. They also killed the party fighter a few times... Maybe you shouldn't follow their example.

Guizonde
2013-01-21, 09:48 PM
...you could burn down the jail....

Seriously though (well... :smallamused:), does anyone have access to stone shape? (through scrolls, probably). If the prison is stone, then you should be able to get out easily.

You could always kill the guards and break eveything else... Hrm... I'm trying to think of what the party I DM'd a while back did to get out of trouble...

I think they mostly just pointed the evoker and cleric at the problem and lightning-bolted and flame-striked it to death. They also killed the party fighter a few times... Maybe you shouldn't follow their example.

eat the guards, grab support beams and other improvised weapons, add violence and voila! a perfect prison escape munchkin-card-game style!

Gamgee
2013-01-22, 03:23 AM
Not bad. Doesn't have anything on my PC's blowing up a mountain to win a drinking contest with an ogre. *sigh* I'm just amazed they lived.

RoyVG
2013-01-22, 04:37 AM
...you could burn down the jail....

Seriously though (well... :smallamused:), does anyone have access to stone shape? (through scrolls, probably). If the prison is stone, then you should be able to get out easily.

I actually have weapons that deal double maximized damage to objects and ignore up to hardness 8, such as stone. Stone has 15 HP/inch, and it deals 24 damage every other round. A 1ft thick masonry wall has 90 Hp, so it will fall in 8 rounds = less than a minute

The other one that is free can deal a lot of damage to objects using Mountain Hammer and a certain Vestige, allows him to deal lots of damage to objects.

I think we can break them out very fast if we do it right.


:elan: great idea!
what is this tpk you speak of? code for MOAR DYNAMITE?!

Total Party Kill, Morph already mentioned it in his wall of text. we almost had a functional TPK, with most of us in jail. Two of the characters that are free actually had the highest chance of getting out of prison by themselves. though I would only do it to make a statement that this prison cannot hold me.

Morph Bark
2013-01-22, 05:44 AM
Not bad. Doesn't have anything on my PC's blowing up a mountain to win a drinking contest with an ogre. *sigh* I'm just amazed they lived.

Well, there was this one time when I was a player for a short while, where I dunked the BBEG 5 miles down the mouth of a volcano. It erupted soon after, but RoyVG's character managed to save us just in time with Wall of Force and Teleport (I think one of those was from a Minor Schema, too, so we were lucky to have it ready). The only one who didn't survive that session was my cohort, who rolled triple 1s and crit-shot herself to death. The party suddenly saw her falling from out of nowhere, utterly confused, as she had been invisible the entire time she had been with us.

@Roy: FYI, sometimes blue text is used on GitP to denote sarcasm or ironic humour.

RoyVG
2013-01-22, 06:59 AM
@Roy: FYI, sometimes blue text is used on GitP to denote sarcasm or ironic humour.

http://careeractionnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/100222-The-More-You-Know.jpg

Well, there was this one time when I was a player for a short while, where I dunked the BBEG 5 miles down the mouth of a volcano. It erupted soon after, but RoyVG's character managed to save us just in time with Wall of Force and Teleport (I think one of those was from a Minor Schema, too, so we were lucky to have it ready). The only one who didn't survive that session was my cohort, who rolled triple 1s and crit-shot herself to death. The party suddenly saw her falling from out of nowhere, utterly confused, as she had been invisible the entire time she had been with us.

Note: He survived the fall because of the rules stating that you can't get more than 20d6 falling damage and he had much more HP than that

I still had a Wall of Force available, and someone else had the Teleport.

DigoDragon
2013-01-22, 08:29 AM
Ah, yes, arson: a sure sign that the PCs have been there.

That is so true. :smallfrown:
I'm currently involved in a Shadowrun 4e game and thus far I'm the only non-self-destructive PC in the group. A quick example of how bad this team gets:
Our team just ended a session with burning down a Sports Authority store in order to kill six people the team thought were paid to get rid of us. And no, the team had no proof those poor chaps were actually out to get *US*.

The team--
Stealth: Ork melee adept. Loves to record himself in our missions and then upload them to the matrix for bragging rights against megacorps.
Eli: Ork sniper. Demands that he MUST have the largest body count on the team and succeeds. Even on non-combat missions...
Shadow: Dwarf rigger who has an unhealthy love of machine guns on all his drones. His drones are as stealthy as a freight train.
Jewels: Human combat mage who specializes in nothing but hand guns. I can't remember the last time he casted an actual spell...
Lupina: Human shaman. Keeps changing her hair style and colored contact lenses every few days. Uses a lot of Invisibility spells and disguises.


Guess which one isn't about to be murdered by Lone Star. :smallsigh:

TuggyNE
2013-01-22, 07:31 PM
The team--
Stealth: Ork melee adept. Loves to record himself in our missions and then upload them to the matrix for bragging rights against megacorps.
Eli: Ork sniper. Demands that he MUST have the largest body count on the team and succeeds. Even on non-combat missions...
Shadow: Dwarf rigger who has an unhealthy love of machine guns on all his drones. His drones are as stealthy as a freight train.
Jewels: Human combat mage who specializes in nothing but hand guns. I can't remember the last time he casted an actual spell...
Lupina: Human shaman. Keeps changing her hair style and colored contact lenses every few days. Uses a lot of Invisibility spells and disguises.


Guess which one isn't about to be murdered by Lone Star. :smallsigh:

Imma go ahead and guess you're playing Lupina. ("One of these things is not like the others....")

Amidus Drexel
2013-01-23, 12:59 AM
That is so true. :smallfrown:
I'm currently involved in a Shadowrun 4e game and thus far I'm the only non-self-destructive PC in the group. A quick example of how bad this team gets:
Our team just ended a session with burning down a Sports Authority store in order to kill six people the team thought were paid to get rid of us. And no, the team had no proof those poor chaps were actually out to get *US*.

Eli: Ork sniper. Demands that he MUST have the largest body count on the team and succeeds. Even on non-combat missions...


Well, every group needs someone to help keep the party in line. (as futile as it may be...)

Were they actually out to get you? (did you find out later, perhaps?)

Well, to be fair, those tend to be the easiest missions to get the largest body count, because the other players aren't trying. :smallamused:

DigoDragon
2013-01-23, 09:17 AM
Imma go ahead and guess you're playing Lupina. ("One of these things is not like the others....")

*Ding!* :smallbiggrin:
I know that the other players do love a good fire fight, but if the mission calls for stealth, I have no idea why they don't at least try to be quiet about their murdering. We have access to things like silencers and Invisibility spells, but the other players love to put themselves up on a display.
I joked with our GM that he should call this "Michael Bay's The Shadowrunning"

...I couldn't tell if he was laughing or crying. :smallconfused:



Well, every group needs someone to help keep the party in line. (as futile as it may be...)
Were they actually out to get you? (did you find out later, perhaps?)

I asked the GM a day after the session if that opposing group was out to get us. His answer was that no they weren't out to get us. They were bad guys who were trying to get after their own boss (a 3rd party we're also after).
So while us killing this other group wasn't a total fail on our part, we could have used them as "Enemy of my Enemy" allies to go after the bigger bad that IS after us.

This GM generally has the mindset that if a PC wants to become a self-destructive player, he'll gladly help accomplish the goal. Hopefully this won't be an area effect though...

ReaderAt2046
2013-01-27, 09:29 AM
Agreed! SDPs are bad enough, but AOESDPs are really bad!

Slipperychicken
2013-01-27, 12:59 PM
Agreed! SDPs are bad enough, but AOESDPs are really bad!

If your self-destruction isn't an AOE which destroys at least the building you're standing in (leveling a city block is much more appropriate), you're doing it wrong.

ArcturusV
2013-01-27, 11:15 PM
Self destructive PCs... kinda redundant there don't you think? Like saying Violent Axe Murderer.

Course I had my players recently in a mission that called for either stealth, or guile. Instead they decided to Scooby Doo Villain someone (Making them think there was a ghost by use of Shaman powers), and set a town on fire "just as a distraction" to the Scooby Doo Villain scheme.

ReaderAt2046
2013-01-30, 02:59 PM
So last night I was playing Exalted with some friends, and we were in a conversation with a Dragon King, who was the head of an adventuring party that had arrived at the same tomb we had. We were getting along pretty well, until the Dragon King made some idle comment about tomb-robbing being dangerous, and my character said:

"Speaking of danger, do you mind if I tag along with you tomorrow? I have a new magic trick I want to try, but it needs a relatively fresh corpse."

As the GM told me later "Talking about necromancy to a Dragon King is so many degrees of wrong that he basically only refrained from killing you because of White-mane."