[PF] Need help with an non-optimal build (Oracle Archer)

[Vastly]

So, I'm trying to build an archer out of an Oracle (Wind). I'm also considering taking the Seeker archetype to gain the ability to disarm traps of all kinds. A sort of divine, jack of all trades. It needs to be PFS legal, and will be 20 point for stats. I'm having a terrible time trying to figure out how to get this character working mechanically and I'm hoping someone here can help me.

This is definitely not an optimal build, Oracle just isn't the best choice for an archer type character, throw in trap finding, and my stats are all over the place. But it's the best option for the character I have in mind, so I'm determined to make it work!

The character will be heavily themed around wind, and is a wander of sorts, who seeks to rediscover forgotten art and beauty in the world. Shelyn, would be his deity of choice.

I've narrowed my options down a bit to what fits the character theme.

Stats Pre-Race:

Str: 10 (could drop this to 8 if needed)
Dex: 16 (with a racial bonus, could drop down to 14)
Con: 10 (should be higher, but I can live with a 10)
Int: 10 (if I go trapfinding, can't drop Int below 10)
Wis: 10 (could go higher, wouldnt want to drop lower)
Cha: 16 (without a racial bonus, probably needs to be a 17)


Races:

Human
Half-Elf
Elf
Sylph


Possible Multiclass dips:

Fighter (Archer?)
Monk (Zen Archer)
Paladin (Divine Hunter?)


Skills:
Perception and Spellcraft will be maxed out

Disable Device
Diplomacy
Fly
Knowledge (arcane/religion/nature)
Linguistics
Use Magic Device


Feats:
As far as I can tell, I'll need to pretty much focus exclusively on the ranged feat line.

Spells:
Probably going to focus on buffing, and a bit of debuffing. If I can figure out a way to get Gravity Bow, that would be cool.

I want to avoid multiclassing if I can, but if that's the best way, I'd like to avoid more then 2 level dips if possible. I really hope someone can help me figure this out, any suggestions and advice will be much appreciated!

Edit: Added builds from post below
New questions now that the basic builds are somewhat worked out.

Is Manyshot worth it?
Would Vital Strike be a better route then rapidshot/clustered/manyshot?
What other feats should I look at?
Any other general suggestions/optimizations?
Opinions on whether it's worth losing 2 levels of spell casting for the abilities given by the 2 levels of paladin? (I'm personally on the fence on this one)


Oradin (Paladin 2 / Oracle 10+)
Human (standard traits)

Archetype:
Divine Hunter (Paladin)

Skills: (order by importance)

Use Magic Device
Perception
Spellcraft
Diplomacy
Knowledge (religion
Fly
Stealth
Acrobatics


Traits:

Dangerously Curious (Magic)

+1 UMD, UMD is a class skill
Observant (Faction[The Grand Lodge])

+1 Perception, Perception is a class skill


Without Manyshot


Str 14
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 18


Progression

Smite 1/day, Precise Shot / Point Blank Shot / Rapid Shot (Human Bonus)
Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
Mystery (Wind), Curse (Haunted), Revelation (Wind Sight) / Deadly Aim
Mystery Spell (alter winds) / +1 Charisma (19 total)
Revelation (Invisibility) / Extra Revelation (Air Barrier)
Mystery Spell (gust of wind)
(Open Feat)
+1 Charisma (20 total)
Revelation (Wings of Air) / Clustered Shots
Mystery Spell (cloak of wind)
(Open Feat)
Mystery Spell (river of wind) / +1 Charisma (21 total)



With Manyshot


Str 12
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 9
Cha 17


Progression

Smite 1/day, Precise Shot / Point Blank Shot / Rapid Shot (Human Bonus)
Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
Mystery (Wind), Curse (Haunted), Revelation (Wind Sight) / Deadly Aim
Mystery Spell (alter winds) / +1 Charisma (18 total)
Revelation (Invisibility) / Extra Revelation (Air Barrier)
Mystery Spell (gust of wind)
(Open Feat)
+1 Dexterity (17 total)
Revelation (Wings of Air) / Manyshot
Mystery Spell (cloak of wind)
Clustered Shots
Mystery Spell (river of wind) / +1 Charisma (19 total)




Wind Oracle (Oracle 12+)
Human (standard traits)

Archetype:
None

Skills: (order by importance)

Use Magic Device
Perception
Spellcraft
Diplomacy
Knowledge (religion
Fly
Stealth
Acrobatics


Traits:

Dangerously Curious (Magic)

+1 UMD, UMD is a class skill
Hunter's Eye (Faction[Andoran])

No penalties for 2nd range increment, proficiency with longbow or shortbow


Without Manyshot


Str 14
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 18


Progression

Mystery (Wind), Curse (Haunted), Revelation (Wind Sight) / Point Blank Shot / Precise Shot (Human Bonus)
Mystery Spell (alter winds)
Revelation (Invisibility) / Rapid Shot
Mystery Spell (gust of wind) / +1 Charisma (19 total)
Extra Revelation (Gaseous Form)
Mystery Spell (cloak of wind)
Revelation (Wings of Air) / Deadly Aim
Mystery Spell (river of wind) / +1 Charisma (20 total)
Clustered Shot
Mystery Spell (control winds)
Revelation (Touch of Electricity) / (Open Feat)
Mystery Spell (sirocco) / +1 Charisma (21 total)



With Manyshot


Str 12
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 9
Wis 10
Cha 17


Progression

Mystery (Wind), Curse (Haunted), Revelation (Wind Sight) / Point Blank Shot / Precise Shot (Human Bonus)
Mystery Spell (alter winds)
Revelation (Invisibility) / Rapid Shot
Mystery Spell (gust of wind) / +1 Charisma (18 total)
Extra Revelation (Gaseous Form)
Mystery Spell (cloak of wind)
Revelation (Wings of Air) / Deadly Aim
Mystery Spell (river of wind) / +1 Dexterity (17 total)
Manyshot
Mystery Spell (control winds)
Revelation (Touch of Electricity) / Clustered Shot
Mystery Spell (sirocco) / +1 Charisma (19 total)

[Psyren]

If you're going to multiclass, I strongly suggest Paladin as smite is the most straightforward way of getting your casting stat (Cha) to attack. This is particularly true in Pathfinder where smiting applies to ranged attacks by default without needing any additional bells or whistles.

The Oradin handbook floating around here should be a good starting point if you want to combine these two classes effectively.

[doko239]

First off, I'd suggest a level-dip into Ranger, then grabbing a wand of Gravity Bow. That will solve that problem. Two levels would get you the bonus feat, something to think about. Another possibility is a dip into Sorcerer or Wizard, although the BAB hit makes this less attractive.

Obvious revelations to take are Wind Sight, Air Barrier and Invisibility. Thunderburst is also potentially a useful one.

The key to being competitive later on will be Divine Power. If you can afford it, a wand of Divine Power will solve all of your mechanics issues.

[Vastly]

Psyren@: Paladin does fit well mechanically, especially if I go Divine Hunter, which nets me a bonus feat. Having the freedom to drop my wisdom a bit due to divine grace would be nice as well. Only real problem I'd face is that I've always found the RP restrictions stifling, and in the case for this character it would fit less well then other options. It's definitely a solid choice going the Oradin route, though I'd be doing an Oracle heavy rather then a Paladin heavy build like the guide suggests.

doko239@: I hadn't really considered ranger. Mechanically, ranger is a worse fit then the Paladin (Cha bonus everywhere!) and the Zen Archer (3 feats with a 2 level dip, not too shabby). But thematically, it works about on par with Zen Archer, and above paladin. You're pretty spot on with the revelations, I was also going to pick Touch of Electricity around 11th level for free shock weapons. I just like the idea of any weapon I touch being electrified hehe

I suppose one of my solutions would also be to not multiclass at all; grab half-elf or elf for weapon proficiency, snag the Dangerous Curiosity trait for UMD, and go full Oracle.

So many choices :smallsmile:

Is the Seeker archetype worth it? I can't decide... the perception bonus equal to half my oracle level is quite nice and fitting, being able to disarm traps is a nice bonus. But I'm not sure. I could instead take Ancient Lorekeeper as an Elf, and take arcane spells as my bonus spells, which is amazing (they take up a slot one level higher, Gravity Bow would be a 2nd lvl spell for instance). Would Half-Elf qualify me for the Ancient Lorekeeper?

[navar100]

Obvious Duh - Don't take Clouded Vision as your curse! :smalltongue:

Haunted is also bad because you need to draw your arrows.

Since you intend to stay out of melee and probably don't need to move so much Lame wouldn't hurt.

[doko239]

If you're going Ancient Lorekeeper, then just grab a wand of Gravity Bow and you're set. As long as the spell is on your spell list, you can cast it from a wand without a UMD check.

Another option would be Pathfinder Savant, which would get you Esoteric Magic, plus a couple other nice bonuses.

[Vastly]

Draw or Sheathe a Weapon

Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.

If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.

Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action.

navar100@: Actually, as far as I can tell, drawing ammunition isn't considered to be retrieving a stored item if it's in a quiver ready to be used. So the Haunted Curse wouldn't actually come into play, unless I was going through my backpack to get extra arrows or something. Mind you, still troublesome, but at least it makes playing a haunted archer playable!

doko239@: Pathfinder Savant eh? Hadn't seen that prestige class, interesting. Thanks for pointing it out!

[Vastly]

So I've thrown together a couple of build ideas, let me know what you think. How can I improve the builds? Which feats would you recommend for any open choices? And is Manyshot worth all the trouble in your opinion?

Please leave any other suggestions or insights you might have!

Oradin (Paladin 2 / Oracle 10+)
Human (standard traits)

Archetype:
Divine Hunter (Paladin)

Skills: (order by importance)

Use Magic Device
Perception
Spellcraft
Diplomacy
Knowledge (religion
Fly
Stealth
Acrobatics


Traits:

Dangerously Curious (Magic)

+1 UMD, UMD is a class skill
Observant (Faction[The Grand Lodge])

+1 Perception, Perception is a class skill


Without Manyshot


Str 14
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 18


Progression

Smite 1/day, Precise Shot / Point Blank Shot / Rapid Shot (Human Bonus)
Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
Mystery (Wind), Curse (Haunted), Revelation (Wind Sight) / Deadly Aim
Mystery Spell (alter winds) / +1 Charisma (19 total)
Revelation (Invisibility) / Extra Revelation (Air Barrier)
Mystery Spell (gust of wind)
(Open Feat)
+1 Charisma (20 total)
Revelation (Wings of Air) / Clustered Shots
Mystery Spell (cloak of wind)
(Open Feat)
Mystery Spell (river of wind) / +1 Charisma (21 total)



With Manyshot


Str 12
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 9
Cha 17


Progression

Smite 1/day, Precise Shot / Point Blank Shot / Rapid Shot (Human Bonus)
Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
Mystery (Wind), Curse (Haunted), Revelation (Wind Sight) / Deadly Aim
Mystery Spell (alter winds) / +1 Charisma (18 total)
Revelation (Invisibility) / Extra Revelation (Air Barrier)
Mystery Spell (gust of wind)
(Open Feat)
+1 Dexterity (17 total)
Revelation (Wings of Air) / Manyshot
Mystery Spell (cloak of wind)
Clustered Shots
Mystery Spell (river of wind) / +1 Charisma (19 total)




Wind Oracle (Oracle 12+)
Human (standard traits)

Archetype:
None

Skills: (order by importance)

Use Magic Device
Perception
Spellcraft
Diplomacy
Knowledge (religion
Fly
Stealth
Acrobatics


Traits:

Dangerously Curious (Magic)

+1 UMD, UMD is a class skill
Hunter's Eye (Faction[Andoran])

No penalties for 2nd range increment, proficiency with longbow or shortbow


Without Manyshot


Str 14
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 18


Progression

Mystery (Wind), Curse (Haunted), Revelation (Wind Sight) / Point Blank Shot / Precise Shot (Human Bonus)
Mystery Spell (alter winds)
Revelation (Invisibility) / Rapid Shot
Mystery Spell (gust of wind) / +1 Charisma (19 total)
Extra Revelation (Gaseous Form)
Mystery Spell (cloak of wind)
Revelation (Wings of Air) / Deadly Aim
Mystery Spell (river of wind) / +1 Charisma (20 total)
Clustered Shot
Mystery Spell (control winds)
Revelation (Touch of Electricity) / (Open Feat)
Mystery Spell (sirocco) / +1 Charisma (21 total)



With Manyshot


Str 12
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 9
Wis 10
Cha 17


Progression

Mystery (Wind), Curse (Haunted), Revelation (Wind Sight) / Point Blank Shot / Precise Shot (Human Bonus)
Mystery Spell (alter winds)
Revelation (Invisibility) / Rapid Shot
Mystery Spell (gust of wind) / +1 Charisma (18 total)
Extra Revelation (Gaseous Form)
Mystery Spell (cloak of wind)
Revelation (Wings of Air) / Deadly Aim
Mystery Spell (river of wind) / +1 Dexterity (17 total)
Manyshot
Mystery Spell (control winds)
Revelation (Touch of Electricity) / Clustered Shot
Mystery Spell (sirocco) / +1 Charisma (19 total)




The obvious benefit to the Oradin is the extra feat from Divine hunter, Smite, Lay on Hands (albeit on the weak side), Charisma to saves, and proficiency with bows from class rather then a trait. The main downside is the decreased caster potential, and weaker/ delayed revelations.

Straight Oracle obviously gives you full caster and revelation progression. But has to gain weapon proficiency else where (in this build, via a trait), and is quite feat starved.

The BAB is only better for this Oradin in the early levels, and evens out around the mid levels, at level 18-20 there is no difference between the builds as far as BAB is concerned.

I chose the Haunted Curse, because I liked the idea of strange winds outside the Wind Oracles control cropping up, as well as "whispers" on the wind. If a DM goes against the RAW, and decides ammunition is affected by the Haunted Curse, then I'd go with Tongues or Lame instead.