Sizing + Fleshgrinding - Cool combo

[andromax]

I'm sure this has been thought of but I couldn't find anything with a search..

Let's say I take a small bastard sword, so I can wield it as a medium creature 1 handed and get it enchanted with Sizing (+5kgp) from MiC and then put Fleshgrinding (+2) on there as well.

Before I let go of the weapon to activate it, I spend a swift action to make it colossal. It might actually be worth the money in that case. Especially if I had thought ahead and had it crafted from platinum (Magic of Faerun) so that it was doing 12d6+Str per round after I let it go.

EDITED to show more concisely:
The trick, with a Sizing Fleshgrinder Bastard sword;
-Stab something that is alive.
-Activate Sizing (Colossal) Swift Action.
-Activate the Fleshgrinding property.
-Sword now deals 12d6 +STR damage on it's own for 5 rounds or until someone pulls it out (DC20 Str check),while you make full attacks or run away.
-Activate returning weapon feature of Fleshgrinder & spend swift action to return weapon to manageable size (before it crushes your toes).


Things to consider..
-If they can wield a Colossal weapon, this might be a bad idea.
-If they know the command or are able to UMD the weapon smaller(activating a command activated item), it might be a bad idea.

[ahenobarbi]

Before I let go of the weapon to activate it, I spend a swift action to make it colossal.

By RAW you can't do that. Because you activate the weapon and let it go at the same time (so you can't increase size in between).

[Andezzar]

Let's say I take a small bastard sword, so I can wield it as a medium creature 1 handedYou would take a -2 penalty on attacks that way. EWP bastard sword would remove that and would allow you to use a weapon appropriate for your size.

[Morph Bark]

A Colossal bastard sword would deal 6d8 points of damage. Is fleshgrinding based off the weapon's damage, or does it deal an amount of d6es based on size?


By RAW you can't do that. Because you activate the weapon and let it go at the same time (so you can't increase size in between).

He's not talking about doing it in-between letting go and activating the weapon's fleshgrinding ability though. He wants to size it up before either of those things happens.

[ahenobarbi]

A Colossal bastard sword would deal 6d8 points of damage. Is fleshgrinding based off the weapon's damage, or does it deal an amount of d6es based on size?


It damages "as if you had scored a normal hit with it (including damage from the weapon properties, and your normal bonus from Strength, but not extra damage from feats)".


He's not talking about doing it in-between letting go and activating the weapon's fleshgrinding ability though. He wants to size it up before either of those things happens.

I still don't think it's possible.

"You can activate (...) weapon any time you deal damage with it (...) When this occurs, you let go of the weapon"

So there is not a moment for you to resize the weapon.

[JeminiZero]

A Colossal bastard sword would deal 6d8 points of damage. Is fleshgrinding based off the weapon's damage, or does it deal an amount of d6es based on size?

He mentioned using platinum as a material from Magic of Faerun 180. Basically, it ups each d8 dice to 2d6, so that 6d8 becomes 12d6.


He's not talking about doing it in-between letting go and activating the weapon's fleshgrinding ability though. He wants to size it up before either of those things happens.

The way he describes it is a little vague. I initially also thought that he was going to hit the creature, activate sizing, and then activate grinding, since if you can naturally wield a colossal bastard sword, you can deal more damage simply by full attacking with it without resorting to grinding. Basically, it looked like he was trying to exploit the use of fleshgrinding to make attacks without being able to wield a colossal weapon.

[andromax]

By RAW you can't do that. Because you activate the weapon and let it go at the same time (so you can't increase size in between). That's not true or relevant really when you consider how the actions in question work. I could even draw half a dozen daggers, & drop them at the exact same time if I had quick draw feat, drop prone, and even draw a potion from my bandolier (if I had to ability to use 2 swift actions in a round) all at the exact same moment.


I still don't think it's possible.

"You can activate (...) weapon any time you deal damage with it (...) When this occurs, you let go of the weapon"

So there is not a moment for you to resize the weapon.
The beauty of swift actions is that they are simply free actions, that you can use once per turn. Let's take a look at the SRD.


Free Action

Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free.
Swift Action

A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.

I can use my free actions at any point during my turn, just not at any point during anyone else's actions.


He mentioned using platinum as a material from Magic of Faerun 180. Basically, it ups each d8 dice to 2d6, so that 6d8 becomes 12d6.
Yeah that's how you get the 12d6 - I chose the bastard sword, because d8s get the most love with the heavy weapon materials, and a colossal bastardsword is 6d8. There are other optimal weapons too (dwarven waraxe maybe)

..Basically, it looked like he was trying to exploit the use of fleshgrinding to make attacks without being able to wield a colossal weapon.
The beauty is, that you don't have to wield a colossal weapon, it deals damage on it's own for 5 rounds or until it is removed by another character which is the most likely scenario. It would work well on certain dumb monsters though.


TBH I don't even think this is exploiting, or broken, maybe a tiny bit cheesy since it is tantamount to action abuse (since your sword is attacking for you).
But if you consider the fact that were talking about 40k for an item with all those property's on it, and considering it's quite limited scope of use (target must be living... ugh) if you still rely on stabbing everything to death by the time you can afford this you might need it :)

[andromax]

You can activate a fleshgrinding weapon
any time you deal damage with it to a living
creature in melee. When this occurs, you
let go of the weapon and it magically animates,
grinding itself into the foe’s flesh

Stab something that is alive.
Activate Sizing (Colossal) Swift Action
Activate the Fleshgrinding property
Sword now deals damage on it's own while you make full attacks or run away

[LanSlyde]

Stab something that is alive.
Activate Sizing (Colossal) Swift Action
Activate the Fleshgrinding property
Sword now deals damage on it's own while you make full attacks or run away

It's doable. I personally prefer using BoVD's Masterslaying in conjuction with fleshgrinding and any other crit properties I can stack on.

Smack and grind them. If they pull it out they down have your weapon. Activate masterslaying and autocrit them for silly affects.

[Morph Bark]

Don't the heavy metal rules in the FR books say the damage dice are increased as if the size category went up by one? 1d8 would become 2d6, yes, but 6d8 would become 8d8.

[Darrin]

Don't the heavy metal rules in the FR books say the damage dice are increased as if the size category went up by one? 1d8 would become 2d6, yes, but 6d8 would become 8d8.

No, the 3.5 sizing rules hadn't been formally adopted at that point. You follow the chart, which goes by die type, and each 1d8 converts 2d6. For the most part, it matches the size increase table, but depending on when you apply the size increases, you can get much better average damage by converting d8's into d6's.

[andromax]

No, the 3.5 sizing rules hadn't been formally adopted at that point. You follow the chart, which goes by die type, and each 1d8 converts 2d6. For the most part, it matches the size increase table, but depending on when you apply the size increases, you can get much better average damage by converting d8's into d6's.

Absolutely. It's kinda sorta similar, it's also different, and specifically applied to the weapons base damage die, after determining the weapon's size.

[andromax]

It's doable. I personally prefer using BoVD's Masterslaying in conjuction with fleshgrinding and any other crit properties I can stack on.

Smack and grind them. If they pull it out they down have your weapon. Activate masterslaying and autocrit them for silly affects.
Masterslayer sounds cool too, but I think most badguys would have to drop the Colossal weapon (as its unwieldable) unless they can UMD the command, or know it.

Then you activate the returning weapon feature of Fleshgrinder and spend another swift action (before it falls on your toes) to make it wieldable.

[LanSlyde]

Masterslayer sounds cool too, but I think most badguys would have to drop the Colossal weapon (as its unwieldable) unless they can UMD the command, or know it.

Then you activate the returning weapon feature of Fleshgrinder and spend another swift action (before it falls on your toes) to make it wieldable.

They could hold the weapon, but not wield it. Masterslaying isn't activated by the holder of the weapon, its activated by the holder of the sheath/scabbard/ hook that normally holds the weapon when not in use.

[andromax]

They could hold the weapon, but not wield it. Masterslaying isn't activated by the holder of the weapon, its activated by the holder of the sheath/scabbard/ hook that normally holds the weapon when not in use.
Yes you're absolutely right - I just meant in order to attack they would most likely need to free the hand(s) holding the Fleshgrinding weapon, and since you have to activate it on your turn there'd be a chance they would have dropped it, not that they'd have to - but it would totally be worth putting on there for the many scenarios in which they did ended up wielding your sword.