Changeling argent fist

[Heilmut Von L.]

From Faiths of Eberron, Argent Fist PrC at the "notables" section:


The most famous include
Brother Micah, an Eldeen half-orc raised in the Church;
Sister Ronas Kelur, said to have fought in more battlesthan any other argent fist alive today, and the changeling Sir Wyrren, who has mastered a fighting style thatinvolves shapechanging in ways few others of his race can manage

Any ideas about how to build a changeling monk/paladin/argent fist? *___*

[docnessuno]

Monk 2 / Paladin 4 / Warshaper 4 / Argent fist 8 / Monk +2 seems like a good fit.

Take serenity to key your paladin stuff on Wisdom, and go with Str > Wis > Con >> Dex >> Rest

[mattie_p]

Monk 2 / Paladin 4 / Warshaper 4 / Argent fist 8 / Monk +2 seems like a good fit.

Only problem with that is Warshaper lacks the following text found elsewhere in Complete Warrior:


Multiclass Note: A monk who becomes a [PrC] may continue advancing as a monk.

[docnessuno]

Only problem with that is Warshaper lacks the following text found elsewhere in Complete Warrior:

True. Monk 4 / Paladin 4 / Warshaper 4 / Argent fist 8 then.

[mattie_p]

Unfortunately I don't have Faiths of Eberron, so I can't provide advice on Argent Fist.

I don't really see how Monk 4 is all that much more useful than monk 2. Would a little Sacred Fist help (full BAB)? Church inquisitor adds inquisition domain, could be useful (3/4 BAB). Hospitaler (full BAB) might help if you are mounted, but without Paladin 5 I don't see how you are going that direction, and won't synergize with monk. All from Complete Divine

[docnessuno]

Well 2 more levels of monk allows you to reach the "top" monk features (AC, unarmed damage) without feats investments (just need a monk's belt), wich is not a bad perk.
Sacred fist could be another choice, but i dont' think a small fort/will boost and a 1st level paladin slot are worth including another PRC in the build, the only real advantage would be using it as a "topper" to get the other PRCs in 2 levels earlier. And you do want full BAB, allowing you to reach +16, otherwise i'd finish it off with the last 2 Argent fist levels.

[mattie_p]

Umm, with 4 paladin levels and 4 warshaper levels (neither of which advance monk UAS or AC), and monk belt adding 5 levels, won't you need 3 more to get equivalent monk 20? or at least the ascetic knight feat from CAdv to stack paladin and monk, which I'd recommend anyway. (That feat investment you thought they wouldn't need)

According to the text, Sacred Fist advances spellcasting 10/10, the table skips advancing at 4 and 8 (making it 8/10). Won't matter for a 2 level topper, as you get full advancement either way.

BAB:
Monk 4 = +3
Paladin 4 = +4
Warshaper 4 = +3
=+10

vs

BAB:
Monk 2 = +1
Paladin 4 = +4
Warshaper 4 = +3
Sacred Fist 2 = +2
=+10


Sacred fist won't hurt BAB, will actually remain the same, and you get an extra 2 levels of spellcasting advancement.

[animewatcha]

If dragon magazine can be brought into this, one can get the holy monk variant to get turn undead ( at monk level 4 ) to support the paladin's. Issue 310. Monk's fuels divine feats. Paladin's fuels ACF.

[docnessuno]

Argent fist makes monk, paladin and AF features stack for many purposes, including unarmed damage.

As i told you sacred fist was imho the only viable choice between the ones you mentioned, but the advantages are minimal at best:

SF: +1 CL and one 1st level slot, +2 BAB +3 Will and Fort, +2 levels of unarmed damage.
VS
Monk: +2 BAB +1 Will, Ref and Fort, +2 levels of unarmed damage, Still mind, Slow fall.

Sacred fist is proably the best option, but marginally so, and i wouldn't include another PRC just for those meager benefits. Also monk 4 / Paladin 4 avoids XP penalities if your DM do enforce them.

A third option i didn't consider is finishing off with paladin +2, granting you special mount (or, more likely, a suitable ACF), 1 more smite/day and remove disease (or another ACF).

[mattie_p]

Argent fist makes monk, paladin and AF features stack for many purposes, including unarmed damage.

As I said, didn't know, so that is pretty good.


As i told you sacred fist was imho the only viable choice between the ones you mentioned, but the advantages are minimal at best:

SF: +1 CL and one 1st level slot, +2 BAB +3 Will and Fort, +2 levels of unarmed damage.
VS
Monk: +2 BAB +1 Will, Ref and Fort, +2 levels of unarmed damage, Still mind, Slow fall.

Sacred fist is proably the best option, but marginally so, and i wouldn't include another PRC just for those meager benefits. Also monk 4 / Paladin 4 avoids XP penalities if your DM do enforce them.

A third option i didn't consider is finishing off with paladin +2, granting you special mount (or, more likely, a suitable ACF), 1 more smite/day and remove disease (or another ACF).

Nice breakdown, I still think an extra CL never hurt anyone, compared to still mind and slow fall I think it comes out on top. The only disadvantage is the feat tax of Combat Casting and Combat Reflexes.

Combat reflexes is only good if there is high dex (and both monk and paladin are already MAD (an not in the same ways), dex should probably be low unless you have incredible rolls) and combat casting is only good if you are casting spells while within melee range or while grappling (better spells if spell compendium is allowed, without it not much to cast in melee).

[Heilmut Von L.]

I think that's the focus ability of this PNG is the "combat through shapechanging" and not the UA damage.

[docnessuno]

I think that's the focus ability of this PNG is the "combat through shapechanging" and not the UA damage.

Well, warshaper allows you to:
Shapechange the body parts you are using to US, to do damage as one size cathegory larger.
Stretcht the same body parts to gain 5ft of additiona reach
Improve your body and fighting capabilities (+4 str / con / crit immunity / fast healing)
Grow additional natural weapons for additional attacks in addition to your iteratives and/or flurry.

I thiks that qualifies as a pretty unique fighting style.
Just immagine the monk stretching his limbs a couple feets to hit you just when you tought you dodged the blow, increasing the size of his feet just as it is about to connect lo land a stronger kick, while at the same time growing tiger-like claws.