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Shadowdagger213
2013-01-01, 09:09 AM
LOL

Ok, for those who have tried to help me previously, I apologize for jumping around the forums, I don't know how to "end a thread", or if it even can be done.

I think I have found my Class.

For those reading my post(s) for the first time, here is a quick summary...

My DM (i.e. my Stepson) is running a Solo campaign for me, the setting is yet to be determined, upon completion of my character.

My sources are the Core, PHB2, the Completes, the Races, BoED, Dragonomacon, possibly Spell Compendium and www.d20srd.org

My challenge is "to play a class or combination of classes that I've never played before" and that selection is lengthy. To help narrow that part of the equation, I have (finally) picked my core class: The Duskblade.

Race will probably be human....

Thought about taking 3 levels of Swashbuckler to max BAB, increase Reflex Saves and the Insightful strike, but I would lose all access to 3rd level spells, including the bonus spells. Since Intelligence would obviously be one of my highest scores, that just seemed the obvious way to go, but is losing all those mid lvl spells worth the additional +5 damage to every successful hit? (probably not, but as I said in a previous posting... spells run out :smallgrin:

What do you think? Ruathar seemed like the next logical step (I am playing for fun, not optimizing or power leveling or the such) but the benefits don't seem to be worth the continued spellcaster progression for what I get at those levels.

With a high Intelligence, Knowledge Devotion and Collector of stories, I wouldn't need to take any levels in Swashbuckler, but to do so at the cost of my 3rd level spells... melee attacks could be devastating!



Thoughts?

Thespianus
2013-01-01, 10:17 AM
Well, first, read the Duskblade Handbook on Dictum Mortuums blog:

http://dictummortuum.blogspot.se/2011/08/duskblade-handbook.html

You will find that an Int over 15 might not be necessary.

I can list specific advice, but the Handbook covers it very nicely.

I think the Swashbuckler dip is completely unnecessary. Get a Guisarme and Armor Spikes, Feats that work nicely: Knowledge Devotion, Arcane Strike, Power Attack.

Norin
2013-01-01, 10:41 AM
I would probably go at least duskblade 13 before prc/multiclass if you want that.

Damage will not be an issue so +5 is not worth it with the swashbuckler IMO.

Go for 2h wep , power attack, knowledge devotion, arcane strike, maybe obtain familiar (pretty good for dusks), improved init.

Also check the guide, its awesome.

I like duskblades. ;)

Lonely Tylenol
2013-01-01, 11:24 AM
A few essential things that are absolute must-reads over everything else in the guide:

The Bloodstone weapon property (Magic Item Compendium) is a must-have, if Magic Item Compendium is allowed (all the best-balanced stuff is in it anyway). It is like the Spell Storing property, but only for Vampiric Touch, and it automatically empowers the spell. Since Vampiric Touch is one of the best things you can use with your channel ability (especially in a solo game), this is fantastic.

A Ring of Wizardry (of any spell level) is pretty much an essential piece of equipment for you, and it's found in core. Essentially, what it does is double the number of spells of a given level you can cast. The Duskblade gets more spells of any level than any other caster class in the game, so the mileage you can get out of this is huge. Combine this with the Versatile Spellcaster feat (Races of the Dragon) in order to combine two lower-level spell slots into higher-level ones (or to have a simply obscene number of channeled Shocking Grasps). Really, it's worth grabbing as many of these as possible (of different spell levels, mind)--so much so that it is also worth picking up a Hand of Glory (which lets you wear a third ring around your neck).

Arcane Disciple (Complete Divine) gives you a wider spell list, although you must still choose the spells known manually. I suggest the Strength, Wrath, and Time domains (although arguments could be made for Hatred, if you like Bestow Curse).

Arcane Strike and Power Attack are both fantastic feats--and you have the capacity to power Arcane Strike several times.

docnessuno
2013-01-01, 11:50 AM
Everyting so far is pretty valuable information, as well as the Duskblade Handbook (but i don't think obtain familiar is "mandatory" it's just pretty good)

Stats spread should be Str > Int > Con >> Dex >> Rest

RAW collector of stories doesn't work with Knowledge devotion, but most DM's will let it pass since it does makes sense it would.

Another nifty way to boost Knowledges comes from the MIC. Scrolls of uncertain provenience, for less than 10k, provide you with a +5 to all knowledge checks, without even needing to access their relic power.

Ask your DM to use spell research (wich is only hinted in the SRD but can be found on DMG pg.198) to expand your spell list. Good candidates are Shield, Wraithstrike and more good touch spells to channel.

Also ask your DM if he would allow the Intensified Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/intensified-spell-metamagic) metamagic feat from pathfinder.

Shadowdagger213
2013-01-01, 12:15 PM
I wish I had thought of the Duskblade sooner, because all of this sounds great! I unfortunately don't have access to Magic Item Compendium so those suggestions are out. But now I have a lot to read, so bearing in mind that I have a very limited selection of books to choose from this still works out for the best. Keep those ideas coming!

:roy:

docnessuno
2013-01-01, 12:42 PM
One thing to keep in mind with duskblade:
The class is either 3 (Arcane channeling), 5 (Quick cast 1/day), 13 (Full attack channeling), 15 (Quick cast 3/day) or 20 levels long. Going out at any other level is kind of a waste. If you think the character will reach level 13 then stick to full duskblede untill you do (possibly untill after level 15), otherwise feel free to PRC out.
A good PRC option (wich becomes great with a small amount of spell research) is the Abjurant champion from CM (and no feat tax for duskblades).

Also remember that around level 5 you can pretty much end level-appropriate encounters with a single strike (quickened true strike, full 2h power attack, channel shocking grasp. Assuming 16 str, +2 item and +1 weapon we are looking at +25 for 2d6+16+5d6)

Norin
2013-01-01, 12:58 PM
Just a few more things:


LOL


LOL indeed!



Race will probably be human....


Good plan! Feats ftw!



Thought about taking 3 levels of Swashbuckler to max BAB

Duskblade has max BAB already



increase Reflex Saves


You will be just fine i bet with your good Will\Fort. If you are really worried, put something decent in dex (helps ac out too if you use light\meduim armour)


and the Insightful strike, but I would lose all access to 3rd level spells, including the bonus spells. Since Intelligence would obviously be one of my highest scores, that just seemed the obvious way to go, but is losing all those mid lvl spells worth the additional +5 damage to every successful hit? (probably not, but as I said in a previous posting... spells run out :smallgrin:


As stated earlier, i see no reason to up your damage with a tiny bonus when you can use high str\2h wep\power attack feat even if you run out of spells. If you still have have spells to channel, damage is not your concern. You will dish out alot anyways.


What do you think? Ruathar seemed like the next logical step (I am playing for fun, not optimizing or power leveling or the such) but the benefits don't seem to be worth the continued spellcaster progression for what I get at those levels.

I would not prc out of duskblade before after 13 and Ruathar would not be my main choise. But if you like it fluff wise, go for it. It's not very bad, you just lose a BAB. As said above though, it all depends on how long you htink you will play the char for. 5th level? 10th? 20th? etc.



With a high Intelligence, Knowledge Devotion
{snip}
... melee attacks could be devastating!

Yes... Yes!!! YES! :smallbiggrin:

Joshinthemosh
2013-01-01, 02:35 PM
Duskblade Class Features

1st level-Power Attack
3rd level-Knowledge Devotion
9th level-Arcane Strike

What level are you starting at?

Shadowdagger213
2013-01-01, 08:35 PM
Starting this character at level 12, where I was going with the swashbuckler was the whole insightful strike dovetail with the knowledge Devotion thing.

Have to read more about the spells, but if just the beginning synopsis in three PHB2 writes the story behind my idea. Duskblades began with the elves so that's kind of why I was thinking about Ruathar.

docnessuno
2013-01-01, 08:48 PM
Well, at level 12 your best option is straight Duskblade 12, so you are just 1 level away from the best feature of the whole class. Obviously if you are willing to sacrifice power for RP reason feel free do drop the class earlier (3 and 5 are optimal stop points).

Also, the fluff of the class is just... well, fluff. Bend it or change it as you like for your concept. The last Duskblade i played was framed for a crime at a young age while attending a classic magic accademy. He managed to clear himself of the charges, but the damage was done, as he had been expelled by the accademy. Having to contine his stuides on his own, as well as to make a living, he blended what he learned with a more mundane and physical combat style.

Talionis
2013-01-02, 10:12 AM
If Sandstorm is available, the Sandshaper prestige class at level 14 is a good option to add a ton of spells to your spell list.

But I agree you have to stay full Duskblade to 13 if you are starting the game at 12. Unless you have a really good roleplay reason, this is the strongest thing you can do.

I'll try to think if I can think of a good prestige class for you I'll drop back in. Look for good ways to expand your spell list. The guides really are very good.

kestrel404
2013-01-02, 10:41 AM
It sounds like your DM wants you to branch out and try new things. What class do you normally play? What's your usual play-style?

Also, what level will you start at?

Norin
2013-01-02, 11:13 AM
Starting this character at level 12,

also, he made a thread earlier about why he had limited class choise and now he decided om duskblade. :)

Shadowdagger213
2013-01-02, 02:28 PM
Thanks again for all of your help with my new favorite class! Now if I could only figure out how to determine how many spells I have at 12th level. There is no chart for spells known, only per day.

2 0 level, 2 1st , plus INT bonus. Presently that would be 3 additional 0 level spells. Total of 5 0 level and 2 1st level.

Morcleon
2013-01-02, 02:39 PM
Thanks again for all of your help with my new favorite class! Now if I could only figure out how to determine how many spells I have at 12th level. There is no chart for spells known, only per day.

2 0 level, 2 1st , plus INT bonus. Presently that would be 3 additional 0 level spells. Total of 5 0 level and 2 1st level.

Each level after first, you get 1 spell known of any level you can cast. This should leave you with another 11 spells known. 3 are 1st level or lower, 4 are 2nd or lower, 4 are 3rd or lower.

Shadowdagger213
2013-01-02, 02:48 PM
Perfect. Thanks.

Shadowdagger213
2013-01-02, 08:29 PM
Okay, I'll be getting to work on this soon, how about suggestions on healing, allocating skill points, and wands or magic items. I am trying to keep things simple, and only have 88,000 gp to work with. Off to work, I look forward to seeing your suggestions. Peace!

Tvtyrant
2013-01-02, 08:34 PM
Depending on your interpretation of spell channeling, you might go with weapons like the Net and Lasso, using the channeled spell to deal damage and the weapon to debuff opponents.

animewatcha
2013-01-02, 08:35 PM
Savage Species. If you are concerned about your save DC, will ranks in UMD, and can convince your DM to let you emulate being a horse, horseshoes of flame will skyrocket your int as untyped bonus.

LTwerewolf
2013-01-02, 08:51 PM
Personally I'm a fan of improved familiars (obtain familiar and improved familiar feats) on duskblades. They end up being pretty decent companions for combat since you have a decent pool of hp and full BaB.

There are a few schools of thought for duskblades.

1. High str, con, medium int (15), and dump everything else
2. Medium str, high con, high int, dump everything else
3. Meh str, high con, high dex, medium int, dump else.

The usual is #1. It's your typical hit hard with thing and magical thing. #2 is more about having higher saves and using the spells that actually use those, and is usually only good when in a group (and even then, using a class that's better at it is recommended). #3 is your weapon finesser with lighter armors. After your 13th in duskblade you'll want to dip swordsage to get dex to damage. Also don't discount a dip (after duskblade 13) in lion totem barbarian, as it can be really useful for you.

Also: if your stepson allows it (some dms don't) get a wand of nerveskitter. Going first means win.

Morcleon
2013-01-02, 08:51 PM
Get a Psychoactive Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor (CPsi). +8 AC, -6 ACP, +2 Max Dex, doesn't count as armor. Stick on +1 (or 2 or 3) Nimbleness, which brings it to -4 ACP, +3 Max Dex. You can also deactivate the armor outside of combat so you don't suffer the ACP at all.

Ring of Sustenance. Awesome item for anyone. Sleep two hours for the effects of 8, no need for food or drink.

...dammit, all of my good duskblade items are in the MIC! :smallannoyed::smalltongue:

@Tvtyrant: That totally works! It's a melee attack, and that's all you need. :smallwink: Needing EWP kinda hurts though...

LTwerewolf
2013-01-02, 09:10 PM
Who says you really need EWP though? The -2 is kind of mitigated by the fact that you're hitting touch ac.

Morcleon
2013-01-02, 09:17 PM
Who says you really need EWP though? The -2 is kind of mitigated by the fact that you're hitting touch ac.

Nonproficiency is -4, and you can't rely on opponents having low touch ACs. Also, a -4 means that you'll have that much less power attack available to you if you want to hit.

Tvtyrant
2013-01-02, 09:23 PM
Get a Psychoactive Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor (CPsi). +8 AC, -6 ACP, +2 Max Dex, doesn't count as armor. Stick on +1 (or 2 or 3) Nimbleness, which brings it to -4 ACP, +3 Max Dex. You can also deactivate the armor outside of combat so you don't suffer the ACP at all.

Ring of Sustenance. Awesome item for anyone. Sleep two hours for the effects of 8, no need for food or drink.

...dammit, all of my good duskblade items are in the MIC! :smallannoyed::smalltongue:

@Tvtyrant: That totally works! It's a melee attack, and that's all you need. :smallwink: Needing EWP kinda hurts though...

There is a fantastic one level dip for that :D (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633)

Morcleon
2013-01-02, 09:51 PM
There is a fantastic one level dip for that :D (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633)

Yeah, but MoM requires 8 ranks in 3 skills that duskblade doesn't have. :smalltongue:

Also, taking anything other than duskblade before level 13 is generally a bad idea, unless you don't mind delaying arcane channelling (full attack).

Vizzerdrix
2013-01-03, 05:56 AM
If you decide on taking a familiar, I'd like to mention the Earth Mephit. They have Power Attack, Change Size, and fast healing. With your BAB and 1/2 your HP would make a decent flanking buddy.

Without the MIC (and the amazing Healing Belt found therein) I can only think of a few ways to get healing. If you can get Summon Nature's Ally 4 some how (Wand or Arcane Devotion Feat) then you can summon unicorns for healing. Wands will need UMD and Arcane Devotion will need you to have a high WIS score. However, both of those options also open up healing wands as well. Better yet, all mephits have a 15 CHA, so you wouldn't have to do more than put ranks in and have it use the wands for you.

Keoghtoms Ointment is expensive and only has a few uses but anyone can use it and it is versatile.

Talionis
2013-01-03, 01:17 PM
Okay, I'll be getting to work on this soon, how about suggestions on healing, allocating skill points, and wands or magic items. I am trying to keep things simple, and only have 88,000 gp to work with. Off to work, I look forward to seeing your suggestions. Peace!

Prestige Bard might be a good level 14 class. Prestige Bard also adds a lot of Bard spells to your list. Bard spells, which include a number of decent healing spells. The Bard spell list also includes some spells that are pretty powerful 5th and 6th level spells.

Familiar isn't a bad idea at all for a Duskblade so Obtain Familiar Feat and Improved Familiar are both worth considering.

Playing a Prestige Bard may also help you in your endeavor to play classes you haven't played since you'll basically get all the abilities of a Bard without giving up any of the abilities of the Duskblade.