Master of Nine Disciplines

[meemaas]

I'm looking to create an epic ToB character, and want to be able to reach mastery of all nine disciplines in the process. So the question I have is, without legacy champion cheese and primarily with a crusader or warblades recovery, is there any way to build so that my initiator level in the three classes will be enough to qualify for all of the level nine maneuvers/level eight stances by level 21? I'm just looking for help for the first 20 levels and dont actually need any of those maneuvers or stances at level 20, just so long as I've met the qualifications to take them at that level.

Thanks in advance for all the help I do get. This is my first attempt at going all out with the Tome of Battle.

Any and all prestige classes are allowed, but I'd like to stay away from the Jade Phoenix Mage. Don't want my character dabbling in Arcane magic.

[Glimbur]

I'm not an expert, but I think the core of what you need to do is to get in to a prestige class ASAP. Based on my reading of the rules, a class like Bloodclaw Master will add to your initiator level for every martial adept class. You'll also want to get a bunch of maneuvers, of course, to qualify for these stances and strikes. Unarmed Swordsage is supposed to help with entering Master of the Nine, which seems like an obvious class to shoot for. Good luck!

[Dusk Eclipse]

Look up the archon of the nine build by Darrin (?), I would link it; but I am posting from my phone.

[meemaas]

I think I saw it. But if it's the one I saw its reliant on legacy champion to function. Which is one of those things I don't want to dabble in.

[Darrin]

I think I saw it. But if it's the one I saw its reliant on legacy champion to function. Which is one of those things I don't want to dabble in.

Check my sig for the link to Archon of Nine. Yes, it uses Legacy Champion, but rules-wise I thought that was "cleaner" than the other methods.

At the top of the Archon of Nine post, there are links to the other methods, including my previous Heaven of Nine build, which does not use Legacy Champion. Unfortunately, it fell short of the prereqs by about two maneuvers (and used an adaptation of RKV to pick up different domains). If you want to use that as your chassis, you'll need some method to squeeze two feats into the build. I used flaws, but retraining, psychic reformation, Dark Chaos Shuffle, or some combination of heroics/Crown of the White Raven might also work.

As far as recovery method, Heaven of Nine starts off as Warblade, dips into Crusader, goes into Mo9 as a Warblade, then finishes off with a dip into Swordsage, so it has three different recover methods. Archon of Nine is more of a Swordsage build with dips into Warblade and Crusader, using Legacy Champion to advance Swordsage.

[Talionis]

Uncanny Trickster is similar to Legacy Champion, but it is only three levels long.


Crusader 3 / Cleric 1/ Ruby Knight Vindicator 9 / Master of Nine 5 / Warblade 1 / Swordsage 1

Use the Cityscape contact feats to get into RKV one level early.

This gets two level 9 maneuvers with Master of Nine (Devoted Spirit & White Raven)
This gets three level 9 Maneuvers with Warblade ( Iron Heart, Diamond Mind, and White Raven)
This gets six level 9 Maneuver with Swordsage (Rest)

Stances are harder since technically you are supposed to only be able to take level one stances with your first level of an initiating class. Not all DMs enforce this 1st level stance rule, but it is RAW.

So you would get one with MoN at 16 and a second with the level 18 feat. The rest you could probably add with items, though that would take up a lot of slots, but not all of them would have to be worn at the same time.

Eternal Blade might be a different way to go granting a couple level nine maneuvers with it Blade Guide, but it's hard to get into and would keep you from taking MoN late. It might work to exchange some levels of RKV to Eternal Blade to pick up the ability to temporarily add maneuvers which could be stances.

Swordsage 4 / Shadow Sun Ninja 9 / Master of Nine 5 / Warblade 1 / Crusader 1

This would grant one more stance, but it makes you use Swordsage recovery for most of your career. Plus you lose all the Cleric spells and action economy cheats of RKV. But it would make it slightly easier on items to get all high level stances.

As for prerequisites, I didn't check to make sure you have enough to qualify for everything. Remember the Stone Mountain level nine has no prerequisites so don't take any other of those maneuvers to give you the best chance.

[Metahuman1]

Actually, I had a similar Idea recently, and posted a thread about it last night. Interesting.


Though, at this point, I think I'll just dip swordsage one level and maybe crusader one level and grab Superior unarmed strike and Improved unarmed strike with Weapons Finesse and Shadow Blade, maybe Evasive Reflexes.

[meemaas]

Thanks for all the help. I didn't want the Legacy Champion build solely because i didn't want to deal with Legacy Weapons at all.

As for the builds, i have one question about that one involving RKV. Namely, do you spend feats to get the manuevers from six disciplines known caveat, or what?

[JaronK]

One cheesy way involves Bloodline abuse. Bloodlines increase your level in all classes by up to three for certain purposes (including initiator level), which allows you to spike your initiator level up very high by taking one level dips (because 1 level of any class + 3 bloodline levels = 2 initiator levels). You get bloodline levels at 3, 6, and 12, though note that they don't count as proper "levels" when you get them.

So a build like Ranger 1/Lion Totem Barbarian 1/(Bloodline level 1)/Fighter 1/Hexblade 1/Duskblade 1/(Bloodline level 2)/Rokugan Ninja 1/Crusader 1/Swordsage 1/Warblade 1 counts as a 9th level character (but takes as much experience as an 11th level character) and has an initiator level of 14 in all initiator classes (and that number will spike up dramatically as soon as he takes his last bloodline level, just before level 12. He'll get half an initiator level per 1 level dip in other classes, plus one level for each initiator class). Just keep taking initiator levels at this point, or throw in some initiator PrCs, and it should be no trouble at all to get to 9th level maneuvers in all schools.

Now, it's a bit silly to abuse bloodline levels like that, but it does make sense that you've trained in a heck of a lot of schools to gain your knowledge. Also, you do get a fair amount of interesting abilities (pounce, bonus feats, rage, sneak attack, and so on).

JaronK

[Talionis]

As for the builds, i have one question about that one involving RKV. Namely, do you spend feats to get the manuevers from six disciplines known caveat, or what?

I think you'd need to do that twice, plus I can't remember what feats go into MoN. So you may not have many feats floating around.

I am also not sure you can actually get enough prerequisite maneuvers to get all of the nine tier nine maneuvers. You may well need those Martial Study feats any way for prerequisites.

[meemaas]

See thats what i was having problems trying to figure out. I've got a prestige class that'll let me learn two new maneuvers and a stance in each of the nine disciplines provided i know maneuvers in them already, but i want to be sure i can qualify for the top tier ones by the time i take that first level at level 21.

[Talionis]

Inferno 5
Strike of Vitality 3
Time Stands Still 4
Perfect Clarity 4
Tornado Throw 5
Five Shadow 5
Mountain Tombstone 0
Feral Death Blow 4
War Master Charge 4

Total of 32

The other thing that helps is that Stances count as maneuvers for qualifying for maneuvers. you can take as many stances as you have feats.

BCM 3 over 5 levels
DSS 3 over 5 levels
EB 5 over 10 levels
JPM 5 over 10 levels
MoN 8 over 5 levels
RKV 5 over 10 levels
SSN 4 over 10 levels

Crusader 5 at 1 and 6 at three. Stance at one and 2.
Swordsage 6 at 1. 8 at three. Stance at 1 and two.
Warblade 3 at 1. 5 at 3. Only one stance at three.