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TripperdeCleric
2013-01-01, 11:14 AM
Im looking to be a Cleric. I wanna be the Buff/Healer.


These would be the only books alowed
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Psionic
Complete Warrior
DMG 1-2
Epic Level Handbook
MM 1-5
PHB 1-2
Dragon Magic
Dungeonscape
Expanded Psionics
Herores Of Horror
Miniatures Handbook
Oriental Adventures
Unearthed Arcana
Magic of Incarnum
Tome of Battle
Tome of Magic
Dragonlance Campaign Setting
Eberron Campaign Setting
Magic of Eberron



Also game would start at level 1. Be point buy of 33 with stats starting with 8 in them with traits/flaws and only races that have no LVL adjustments.


Can you guys help me work out a template?

Zetapup
2013-01-01, 09:34 PM
It really depends on the power level of your group. If the rest of your group isn't optimizing, you probably don't want to optimize too much either.

However, I believe the standard cleric build involves using divine metamagic (feat from complete divine) combined with persistent spell (a feat from complete arcane). Ways to get more turn attempts are almost a necessity with this build.
Essentially what the build does is use their turn attempts to get rid of the spell level increase from persistent spell, which allows you to have a buff last all day. If you want to get around the caveat that spells with the range of touch aren't affected by Persistent Spell, use Reach Spell (feat from complete divine) on the spell to give it a fixed range. Metamagic reducers of some sort are quite helpful here.

There are probably more indepth guides to making a cleric on the internet, but I hope this gives you a rough idea of one potential build.

You might want to note that healing isn't necessarily the most optimized way of playing a cleric. However, if you're at the same power level as the rest of your group and everyone's having fun, it doesn't really matter. :smallsmile:

Waker
2013-01-01, 10:19 PM
As Zetapup points out, the power level of the group is going to affect what is a viable build for you. Though I will disagree with the statement that the "standard" cleric build uses DMM+Persist.
If you want to do nothing more than Heal and Buff, your best best is to use the Radiant Servant of Pelor from Complete Divine. The class is fairly straightforward to enter, progresses all of your clerical abilities while giving you access to a few new ones, such as increasing the amount that you can heal by.
You might like Divine Restoration (Dungeonscape), lose a Domain Power. Sacrifice a spell to spontaneously cast Restoration. Always useful for those unexpected poisons/negative levels/whatever that sometimes pop up.
Generally you'll want to not prepare any Cure spells, instead focusing on buffs, utility and offensive spells. Only use Cure spells spontaneously and even then, only as a last resort. Most of your actual healing should be done via Wands, which are cheap and effective.

Do you have any idea what the rest of the party is playing as? This might help decide what your feat and spell selection should look like.

Snowbluff
2013-01-02, 12:11 AM
Your best bet will be Radiant Servant of Pelor. That will let you get bonuses to your Cure Spells, making them less of a waste of slots.

TripperdeCleric
2013-01-02, 02:23 AM
im pretty sure illumian psionic warrior..and either a ranged build or monk...human.

Im not quite sure on the rest as im being brought into the campaign not knowing who is all playing.

Im pretty sure its going to be mostly melee.


I want optimized.

I want i to be a buffer..and sacrifice for instant heals. Not taking any heals as my main spelllist..going to grab those by saccing for spontaneous.

Gavinfoxx
2013-01-02, 02:30 AM
You know healing is done sufficiently by super super cheap items in this game, out of combat, yes?

see http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871786/A_Players_Guide_to_Healing_(And,_why_you_will_be_J ust_Fine_without_a_Cleric_to_heal)

TripperdeCleric
2013-01-02, 02:41 AM
no.


But please explain.

Also as you feel, I just need a cleric build that can stand up to a hard campaign.


Im not sure on the details of the campaign. I just know that most people done survive due to not having any sort of buff/healer.

Gavinfoxx
2013-01-02, 02:44 AM
Read the link I edited in. Healing in combat in this game is inherently unoptimized, and generally tactically incorrect. This isn't like Final Fantasy where you can actually outpace damage! That doesn't mean to not have access to healing (heavens no!), just that a group can buy a few wands of lesser vigor and have the rogue or bard UMD it. Or the cleric can use them. Focus on being a group and SELF buffer and a god of war -- either melee, summoning, or archery.

Snowbluff
2013-01-02, 02:46 AM
no.


But please explain.

Also as you feel, I just need a cleric build that can stand up to a hard campaign.


Im not sure on the details of the campaign. I just know that most people done survive due to not having any sort of buff/healer.

He saying healing sucks. I think it's rather irresponsible to not have healing ready. Cleric is the right way to go, just in case you need to heal in combat. Picking up another source of healing would be good.

DMM Persist Vigor spells is a pretty good way of keeping people topped off between fights.

Radiant Servant o' Pelor. Bonuses to the little spells.

Take the Martial Spirit stance from Tome of Battle. It'll let you heal out of combat. Just punch some dirt to heal an ally by 2.

AsteriskAmp
2013-01-02, 02:47 AM
no.


But please explain.

Also as you feel, I just need a cleric build that can stand up to a hard campaign.


Im not sure on the details of the campaign. I just know that most people done survive due to not having any sort of buff/healer.Eternal Wands of Cure Light Wounds and Belts of Healing deal with healing more efficiently. In combat it's better to kill things faster than heal because damage is a lot easier to deal than healing, that goes for enemies as well.

If you want to optimise a cleric there are hundreds of ways and prestige classes. Persistent Divine Metamagic makes you the deity of Melee by persisting two buffs which make you a better fighter/monk/insert non ToB Melee class here, because you have as much ability to hit AND you have spells (such as surge of fortune which is practically crit as many as 5th level spell slots you have, or recitation to make yourself even better and melee think you are doing it for them as well).

Divine Quicken and Divine Range make you a great buffer for the party, doable with just full Cleric or add in Two Complete Divine Prcs, the Sacred Exorcist for added turning and the Dweomerkeeper for making your DM go into fetal position when you reach the capstone or get level 17 (18 if you dip Sacred Exorcist), whatever comes first.

There are many other ways which others will probably elucidate as well though.

Gavinfoxx
2013-01-02, 02:50 AM
Or spend enough resources in character creation so you can give everyone fast healing 1 all day long every day. Bam, everyone starts every fight at full up. What is that 14400 hp a day per person, potentially?


Also, be careful when asking for optimized. We can give you a Cleric build that can SOLO the campaign! Is it a purchased module?

TripperdeCleric
2013-01-02, 10:08 AM
Im fine with soloing. I might end up having to. Most of the players are not so intelligent.


Can you guys give me a few builds? mark em with cheesy levels

TripperdeCleric
2013-01-03, 09:02 AM
bump need help

AWiz_Abroad
2013-01-03, 09:55 AM
Or spend enough resources in character creation so you can give everyone fast healing 1 all day long every day. Bam, everyone starts every fight at full up. What is that 14400 hp a day per person, potentially?

Speaking for someone who does play with a lot of power/optimization things, how is this possible pre-epic?

Gigas Breaker
2013-01-03, 10:07 AM
Speaking for someone who does play with a lot of power/optimization things, how is this possible pre-epic?

Persistant mass lesser vigor

AWiz_Abroad
2013-01-03, 10:20 AM
Persistant mass lesser vigor

Oh,

I thought it was something doable through character creation. Thanks for the information though.

Back on topic, I'd like to add my vote for Radiant servant of pelor. It should be a good PrC given the tiers of the other players (depending of course on what a ranged build or monk decides to play)

nedz
2013-01-03, 10:22 AM
Speaking for someone who does play with a lot of power/optimization things, how is this possible pre-epic?

DMM Persist Mass Lesser Vigour.

Ed: So I seem to have been Ninja'd, though without the DMM PMLV is a 9th level spell.

mattie_p
2013-01-03, 10:33 AM
Oh,

I thought it was something doable through character creation. Thanks for the information though.

Feral template, +1 LA, grants minimum Fast Healing 2.
EDIT: Book is savage species, not on your allowed sources.

Darrin
2013-01-03, 10:36 AM
A "standard" DMM Persist Healbot would look something like:

Human Cleric 20, domains = Planning (Extend Spell), Undeath (Extra Turning).
Feats: Persistent Spell (1st), Divine Metamagic: Persistent (1st), Sacred Boost (3rd), Quicken Spell (6th), Divine Metamagic: Quicken (9th), Extra Turning (12th), Extra Turning (15th), Extra Turning (18th).

Mass Lesser Vigor can be persisted for the whole day once you get to Cleric 5. On top of that, you can use Sacred Boost to maximize any healing spells for a round, and get off a standard + quickened spell for that round. You do have the close wounds spell available in the Miniatures Handbook, but see if you can get ahold of the Spell Compendium version: 2nd level instead of 3rd, and heals 2d4 + 1/CL (Max +5) instead of just 2d4.

Another option might be Eldritch Disciple, essentially a Cleric/Warlock that can use it's eldritch blasts to heal people at will. Without getting into early entry shenanigans, that would probably look something like:

Human Cleric 3/Warlock 6/Eldritch Disciple 10/Cleric +1. Same domains/feats as above.

It will take some time to get your healing blasts online, so you won't be much of a healer/buffer during those six Warlock levels. You can speed this up a little with Versatile Spellcaster, Sanctum Spell, or Improved Krau Sigil (requires race = Illumian) to get in with Cleric 1/Warlock 6, but you're even less of a healer/buffer for the first 7 levels that way.

Human Cleric 4/Eldritch Disciple 10/Cleric +6.
Same domains/feats as before.

(Thanks, Snowbluff.)

Something else to consider:

Cleric 7/Hellreaver 2/Cleric +11
Same domains/feats as above.

Hellreaver 2 (Fiendish Codex II) gives you holy fury points every encounter (class level + Cha modifier), and you can spend 1 holy fury point as a swift action to heal 10 HP on any good-aligned ally within 20'.

Snowbluff
2013-01-03, 11:10 AM
Darrin, you only need 1 Warlock Level to get into Eldritch Disciple. It says least invocations, not lesser.

TripperdeCleric
2013-01-03, 11:21 AM
According to above posts healing clerics arent the best option..its better to spontaneous cast them, or use wands.

What are the most solid builds for the melee, ranged, or blast cleric?

and please explain the pelor thing.

Snowbluff
2013-01-03, 11:33 AM
According to above posts healing clerics arent the best option..its better to spontaneous cast them, or use wands.

both. Pack some


What are the most solid builds for the melee, ranged, or blast cleric?

I would for Melee be an ClericX/OrdainedChampion3/Paladin1 or a Ruby Knight Vindicator. Persistmancy some Divine Power, Righteous Might, Holy Sword (Paladin Spell),Holy Transformation.

Ranged, I would go with Eldritch Disciple. Or just do the Melee Cleric things I mention with a +1 Splitting Longbow.




and please explain the pelor thing.

Rdiant Servant of Pelor Empowers then Maximizes your Healing Domain Spells. So a Cure Moderate become 3d8+CL, then 16+CL, then 16+1d8+CL.

TripperdeCleric
2013-01-03, 11:45 AM
the melee one looks efficient.

What about feats and such?

Like the whole build and all that and stat priority.

Gavinfoxx
2013-01-03, 11:48 AM
Brilliantgameologists is down, so...

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Z97kQ_s5II0J:brilliantgameologists. com/boards/index.php%3Ftopic%3D420.0+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Q3yxlbSbx2kJ:brilliantgameologists. com/boards/index.php%3Ftopic%3D10961+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xdrzGpBgKNQJ:brilliantgameologists. com/boards/index.php%3Ftopic%3D8344+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yBnEfQTkPT4J:brilliantgameologists. com/boards/index.php%3Ftopic%3D2773+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:FSXU0-IDBFsJ:brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php%3Ftopic%3D10556+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

From there, it's mostly reading the item handbooks...

And Clerics make melee powerhouses! Divine Metamagic is a must. Though you should decide whether or not you want to be a Cleric or a Cloistered Cleric, with the stuff from Complete Champion. Can you get Complete Champion allowed? How about Spell Compendium? Magic Item Compendium? Complete Mage? Expedition to Castle Ravenloft? Unearthed Arcana? The SRD? Complete Scoundrel? Libris Mortis? Various online wotc sources? Anything from Forgotten Realms? Eberron?

Snowbluff
2013-01-03, 11:58 AM
the melee one looks efficient.

What about feats and such?

Like the whole build and all that and stat priority.



Cleric6/PrestigePaladin1/OrdainedChampion3/

Finish off with something that grants turning progression, like Sacred Exorcist, Prestige Paladin (Watch your CL), or Ordained Champion. Your Smite Anything is based on Turning Level, so optimizing that with items is a good idea.

Wis>Con>Str>Cha>Dex>Int. Since Smiting Spell is on this list, I would say that the Save might matter, so Wis is up top. Smite + Channel Spell + Smiting Spell + Spellstoring Weapon gives the potential for very large, single hits.

Feats
War Domain: Weapon Focus
1: DMM: Persist
3: Smiting Spell
6: Mounted Combat
9: Extra Turning
Flaw: Extend Spell
Flaw: Persist Spell
(Battle Blessing may be an option for the Paladin Spells you learn from PrC Paladin)

RKV is a little more straight forward.

Cleric4/Crusader1/RKV10

Pretty much the same as above, minus Mounted Combat, Weapon Focus, and possibly Smiting Spell.

Gavinfoxx
2013-01-03, 12:09 PM
Personally, I strongly suggest being a cleric of an ideal... however I don't like using Undeath as my second domain. Planning is fine, yea.

Without access to MIC or Libris Mortis, you definitely want to maximize turning pools and such!

Here are some quotes, all from a single thread, regarding maximizing turn undead uses for purposes of DMM.

First quote:

"Human
Cloistered Cleric7/Sacred Exorcist 2/Death Delver 1
Swap knowledge domain for Knowledge Devotion
Swap CC's Turning for Destroy Undead (from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft; there are 2 or 3 other options in other sources that will do, but I like this one)
Take Undeath and Planning domains
Take 2 flaws
You get Extend Spell and one Extra Turning for free. You have to spend two feats on Persistent Spell and Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell). Let's take Power Attack too, just because. You get 4 feats from levels, 1 from race, 2 from flaws, for 7 total, leaving 4 you can spend on more Extra Turnings. With the free one, that's 5 copies of Extra Turning.
Get a Reliquary Holy Symbol and a Nightstick.
You have 3 + 20 (Extra Turning) + 2 (holy symbol) + 4 (Nightstick) + charisma, or 29 + charisma, uses of Turn Undead.
You have the same number of uses of Destroy Undead.
You also have the same number of uses of Rebuke Undead.
That's 87 plus triple charisma bonuses uses to fuel DMM with. Assuming a modest 14 charisma, that's enough for 13 spells."

And here's second quote:

"Human Cleric6(Rebuke Dragons ACF)/RadiantServant1/SacredExorcist1/RS X. I'm currently at level 8. Feats are Extend, Persistent, DMM(Persistent), Extra Turning.

Our group counts Radiant Servant's Greater Turning as a separate pool of turns. I have 1 Nightstick (we don't allow them to stack) and a Reliquary Holy Symbol - both refluffed to affect Rebuke Dragons instead of Turn Undead, as my cleric worships Tamara, but this isn't necessary for it to work! So with 14 Charisma base (18 with Eagle's Spleandor) I have:

17 Rebuke Dragon Attempts
11 Turn Undead Attempts
7 Greater Turnings"

Third quote:

"Reliquary Holy Symbol: +2 turns
Nightstick: +4 turns
Extra Turning: +4 turns
Any Charisma +2 item: +1 turn
Cast Eagle’s Splendor: +2 turns
Consider Extending the Persistent Spell for a 48 hour duration (8 turns). Then persist a few spells, then 2nd day persist a different set of spells. Effectivly doubles the # of persistent spells you have have active.
Use a Metamagic Rod, Extend instead of the extra turn.
Use Slow Spell to make it 6 turns instead of 7 turns. Although Extra Turning is likely a better choice.
Turn or Rebuke Undead (Su) is a single ability. Turn Undead and Rebuke Undead refer to the same ability and you have to pick one or the other, you can't double up here. The Cleric description roughly states that if your alignment changes so does your turn/rebuke ability to match.
Elemental turning such as that provided by the Cold Domain will NOT power divine feats.
Channel Incarnum (Azurin race), Destroy Undead and Rebuke Dragons will power divine feats. Sacred Exorcist gives you Turn Undead. So it may be possible to double (or more) the number of turns you get per day for use with DMM
Remember that Extra Turning adds 4 to ALL your turning pools.
Technically a touch is not a fixed or personal range. Your size dictates the range of a touch spell.
House rules could permit touch spells to be persisted if they are cast as-if personal (ie: yourself).
You could research an original spell with a range of personal that is practically identical to the spell with a range of touch.
Reach Spell turns a touch spell into a ray with a fixed range of 30ft, which can then be Persisted. However, that's a total +8 level adjustment. A cleric with Divine Metamagic for Persistent also could do it at a cost of +2 levels and 9 turnings. Seems a bit silly to force a "touch" spell into a "fixed ranged ray" only to cast it upon yourself, but technically it works!
Heirophant provides for Divine Reach which is the same as Reach Spell for free.
Technically medium is 100 ft + 10 ft. This is not a fixed range, it is a variable range depending on level.
v.3.5 Main D&D FAQ gives a specific example of Summon Monster NOT qualifying for Persistent Spell.
You could research an original spell with a fixed range (short = 10ft, medium = 20ft, long = 30ft). This original spell could be pratcially identical to the spell with a variable range.
Also look at the Spelldander Prc + Vagabond Sandals."

Snowbluff
2013-01-03, 12:12 PM
Or be a Cleric/Divine!AnimaMage/TenebrousApostate and enjoy your infinte number of DMM persist uses.

TripperdeCleric
2013-01-03, 02:26 PM
not sure what that last one is.


Also all books that are allowed are in the first post.

Gavinfoxx
2013-01-03, 02:34 PM
Also all books that are allowed are in the first post.

What about non book sources?

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3siWzHlQgSQJ:brilliantgameologists. com/boards/index.php%3Ftopic%3D1109.80+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

TripperdeCleric
2013-01-03, 02:52 PM
Any online materials are not allowed. He said only what is listed. I think he is aiming for a balance.

Snowbluff
2013-01-03, 02:57 PM
not sure what that last one is.


Also all books that are allowed are in the first post.

Tome of Magic.

Anima Magic gives you the ability to bind vestiges, and you don't need to be a binder to get in. Tenebrous's Turning Ability gives you a set of Turn Attempts, and you can use it every 5 rounds.

Gavinfoxx
2013-01-03, 03:00 PM
Wait, so if your GM is aiming for balance, why are you going for an optimized, overpowered, can solo the module, Cleric???

TripperdeCleric
2013-01-03, 03:10 PM
I know his campaigns and basic stuff doesnt cut it. He is trying to limit out options so we cant run in with nightsticks and certain boosts. He doesnt believe alot of the spells are unbalanced.

Snowbluff
2013-01-03, 03:11 PM
I know his campaigns and basic stuff doesnt cut it. He is trying to limit out options so we cant run in with nightsticks and certain boosts. He doesnt believe alot of the spells are unbalanced.

Hehe. I am the same. I get power levels dropped on me, but I always don't think the basic stuff will work.

TripperdeCleric
2013-01-03, 03:33 PM
Im just looking for a choice by anyone. Kinda indecisive.


I just wanna be what a cleric is good at. Yall can do this..apparently its persistant divine buffs. But what is the best route?

Im level 1. So I need a level progression table. Like what feats to take when, skill focus's and what i should aim to get and why. Also what stats im aiming to hit. Such as Wis>Con>Str or something like that.

Snowbluff
2013-01-03, 04:12 PM
I just wanna be what a cleric is good at. Yall can do this..apparently its persistant divine buffs. But what is the best route?

It's easily the best route for a buffer. If you do not want it, do not take it.


Im level 1. So I need a level progression table. Like what feats to take when, skill focus's and what i should aim to get and why. Also what stats im aiming to hit. Such as Wis>Con>Str or something like that.

Picky picky.

I gave you melee options, and I gave you a healer option. Tell me which build you want to use, and I'll chart it out. I'll even replace DMM for you.

TripperdeCleric
2013-01-03, 04:17 PM
You posted the cleric/paladin thing?

Lets get that rocked out.


I would for Melee be an ClericX/OrdainedChampion3/Paladin1 or a Ruby Knight Vindicator. Persistmancy some Divine Power, Righteous Might, Holy Sword (Paladin Spell),Holy Transformation.

mattie_p
2013-01-03, 04:17 PM
Im just looking for a choice by anyone. Kinda indecisive.

I just wanna be what a cleric is good at. Yall can do this..apparently its persistant divine buffs. But what is the best route?

It was already posted, then, by gavinfoxx:


"Human
Cloistered Cleric7/Sacred Exorcist 2/Death Delver 1
Swap knowledge domain for Knowledge Devotion
Swap CC's Turning for Destroy Undead (from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft; there are 2 or 3 other options in other sources that will do, but I like this one)
Take Undeath and Planning domains
Take 2 flaws
You get Extend Spell and one Extra Turning for free. You have to spend two feats on Persistent Spell and Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell). Let's take Power Attack too, just because. You get 4 feats from levels, 1 from race, 2 from flaws, for 7 total, leaving 4 you can spend on more Extra Turnings. With the free one, that's 5 copies of Extra Turning.
Get a Reliquary Holy Symbol and a Nightstick.
You have 3 + 20 (Extra Turning) + 2 (holy symbol) + 4 (Nightstick) + charisma, or 29 + charisma, uses of Turn Undead.
You have the same number of uses of Destroy Undead.
You also have the same number of uses of Rebuke Undead.
That's 87 plus triple charisma bonuses uses to fuel DMM with. Assuming a modest 14 charisma, that's enough for 13 spells."

TripperdeCleric
2013-01-03, 04:19 PM
Is all that in the books allotted?

mattie_p
2013-01-03, 04:27 PM
Off the top of my head:


"Human
Cloistered Cleric7/Sacred Exorcist 2/Death Delver 1 (UA (But keep regular cleric), CD, Heroes of Horror)
Swap knowledge domain for Knowledge Devotion Complete Champion
Swap CC's Turning for Destroy Undead (from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft; there are 2 or 3 other options in other sources that will do, but I like this one)
Take Undeath and Planning domains
Take 2 flaws
You get Extend Spell and one Extra Turning for free. You have to spend two three feats on Extend Spell, Persistent Spell and Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell). Let's take Power Attack too, just because. You get 4 feats from levels, 1 from race, 2 from flaws, for 7 total, leaving 4 you can spend on more Extra Turnings. With the free one, that's 5 copies of Extra Turning.
Get a Reliquary Holy Symbol and a Nightstick. MiC and Libris Mortis
You have 3 + 20 (Extra Turning) + 2 (holy symbol) + 4 (Nightstick) + charisma, or 29 + charisma, uses of Turn Undead. Recalculating
You have the same number of uses of Destroy Undead.
You also have the same number of uses of Rebuke Undead. (still applies from Death Delver)
That's 87 46 plus triple double charisma bonuses uses to fuel DMM with. Assuming a modest 14 charisma, that's enough for 13 7 spells."

Take Azurin from Magic of Incarnum, still get the bonus feat, you lose one skill point per level, you then take the cleric 1 azurin substitution level (Magic of Incarnum p43) to channel incarnum instead of turn undead (still works for divine feats) - regain turn undead with sacred exorcist 1, and you are now back up to 69 turns + 3x charisma, and probably 10-11 persists per day. Don't take power attack, just take another extra turning.

Gavinfoxx
2013-01-03, 04:48 PM
Can't be Cloistered Cleric, no UA/SRD...

So Choose Rebuke, get Turn from the PrC...

mattie_p
2013-01-03, 05:19 PM
Can't be Cloistered Cleric, no UA/SRD...

So Choose Rebuke, get Turn from the PrC...

Uneathed arcana is on the list of acceptable books. Lack of knowledge domain devotion makes it not worth it, though, stick with regular cleric.

Gavinfoxx
2013-01-03, 05:30 PM
It is? I coulda sworn...

and you mean knowledge devotion?

mattie_p
2013-01-03, 05:36 PM
It is? I coulda sworn...

and you mean knowledge devotion?

Erp, yes, that's what I meant. Without that, cloistered doesn't really add up. Bardic knowledge and a few non-combat spells aren't worth heavy armor proficiency and shields and d8 hit die.

At level 1: Azurin (race) Cleric (with Azurin cleric substitution level)
Level 1: Extend Spell
Azurin Bonus: Persistent Spell
Flaw 1: DMM (Persistent)
Flaw 2: Extra Turning

With 14 CHA you get 3 + 2+ 4 or 7 channel incarnum attempts, sufficient for 1 persist at level 1.

Level 3: Extra turning -> 11 turns
Level 6: take Death Delver as a PrC (doesn't advance casting, but you get rebuke) and Extra turning -> 19 turns x 2 = 38 (5 persists, casting level 3 spells)
Level 9: take Sacred Exorcist and extra turning -> 23 turns x 3 = 69 (or 72 if you boosted cha to 16 at some point, buy a cloak) 10 persists.

TripperdeCleric
2013-01-03, 09:03 PM
This is what I wanna try.


I would for Melee be an ClericX/OrdainedChampion3/Paladin1 or a Ruby Knight Vindicator. Persistmancy some Divine Power, Righteous Might, Holy Sword (Paladin Spell),Holy Transformation.