Removing Aging Penalties

[Vaz]

What are the easiest ways to do this, while still keeping the Bonuses? I have a build that works better through Charisma and uses Marshal to give the Charisma bonus to Physical Stats. Taking +3 to Charisma through Venerable is a quick and easy buff; BUT that bonus is cancelled out one of -3 Str/Con/Dex.

What I am looking for is the easiest way to get the bonuses and none of the maluses for aging without a Wish (the setting being low magic gestalt; typically the only magic available is by the campaign's movers and shakers; mostly Advanced Dragons, Daemons, and Devils who aren't likely to grant a wish just for a quick buff.

[Jeraa]

What are the easiest ways to do this, while still keeping the Bonuses? I have a build that works better through Charisma and uses Marshal to give the Charisma bonus to Physical Stats. Taking +3 to Charisma through Venerable is a quick and easy buff; BUT that bonus is cancelled out one of -3 Str/Con/Dex.


Do note that it is actually a -6 penalty to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. Its still only a +3 bonus to mental stats, though. The effects for each category stack.

Thy only way I know of to remove the ageing penalties, while keeping the bonuses (and without dieing), are the Age Resistance (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/ageResistance.html#_age-resistance) spells from Pathfinder. For Venerable, you would require the Greater spell, which is a 7th level spell. Probably out of reach.

[Elderand]

I believe reincarnate does the trick

[Amidus Drexel]

I'm pretty sure Dragonwrought Kobold lets you ignore aging penalties. That's like Grade A Gouda, though, and you'd have to be a kobold.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Dragonwrought Kobolds not taking age penalties was intentional, so I think that downgrades it from "cheese" to "very strong".

EDIT: Yep, Races of the Dragon, page 53, the next to last sentence under the aging effects table.

[Amidus Drexel]

Dragonwrought Kobolds not taking age penalties was intentional, so I think that downgrades it from "cheese" to "very strong".

True. I meant the cheesy things that normally follow when one takes Dragonwrought Kobold, like epic spellcasting, and internet arguments.

[Seer_of_Heart]

I think druid 15 lets you ignore penalties, so does monk 18 I believe.

[Vaz]

Thank you for the prompt response; just like to also say that it doesn't actually have to be retrospective; I can age, so stuff like the Monk's ability to only get the bonuses but not the penalties I am open to as well.

And sadly, pathfinder is out of the question, but 3.0 is accepted as well as 3.5; and third party content (provided it is along the lines on Rokugan quality) is all acceptable; but pathfinder is not one of them.

[Sgt. Cookie]

True. I meant the cheesy things that normally follow when one takes Dragonwrought Kobold, like epic spellcasting, and internet arguments.


Agreed, but as far as this thread is concerned, DWK cheese is irellevent.

[BowStreetRunner]

Timeless Body would have this effect, as long as the ability were gained before the character reached the higher age categories...of course, this ability is usually only gained at high levels (Druid 15, Monk 17). A Tatooed Monk who take the Crane Tatoo at level 1 will get this ability at level 5 when he takes his 3rd tatoo.

[Amidus Drexel]

While it's not quite the same thing, you could see if there's anything in the immortality handbook that strikes your fancy. I think it mentioned some ways to get timeless body or something similar. I'll go look for it.

Edit:And I can't find the one that had what I was looking for.

This is more of what you're looking for. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137153)

[Vaz]

The Tattooed Monk sounds like my best bet, I'm goimg for Tattooed Monk 1 anyway for Bellflower. Another couple of levels could be worked in fairly easily; it's Gestalt after all.

In regards to the DWK; this is low fantasy; Miniature Dragons on Steroids are not particularly low fantasy.

[Mato]

Polymorph Self :smallwink:

[Rubik]

Any of the Polymorph line after Alter Self, as well as Metamorphosis. If you want it permanent, Polymorph Any Object and a psychoactive skin of proteus (Metamorphosis at will; it's in the SRD) will do it, as will the Reincarnate spell. You should be able to get something similar with the Clone spell or the Fusion power (especially if you combine with Astral Seed, for the latter).

A ghost takes penalties to Dex but doesn't have Str or Con, and if you use the malevolence ability to possess others' bodies then you don't have to worry about that, either.

[Amidus Drexel]

A ghost takes penalties to Dex but doesn't have Str or Con, and if you use the malevolence ability to possess others' bodies then you don't have to worry about that, either.

Actually, ghosts are still have their strength scores on the Ethereal plane. They only lose that when they manifest.

[Rubik]

Actually, ghosts are still have their strength scores on the Ethereal plane. They only lose that when they manifest.Problem is, you never see ghost writeups with Str scores for that purpose.

Of course, we all know how reliable THOSE are.

But still, use malevolence and it doesn't matter WHAT your Str score is.

[Ketiara]

I believe reincarnate does the trick

this is the normal way of getting around the ageing fairly cheap but you have to talk to your DM (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm)

[Vaz]

"low magic"

Jus' sayin'.

[Rubik]

"low magic"

Jus' sayin'."Take a magic class."

Low magic campaigns nerf the already low-tier (read: non-magic) classes and strengthens the high-tier ones in comparison (except wizard, though you can easily build around that).

[Crasical]

Iron Heart Surge the age penalties away.

[Gavinfoxx]

Reincarnate and Last Breath! Get them a new body! =D

[Gavinfoxx]

"Take a magic class."

Low magic campaigns nerf the already low-tier (read: non-magic) classes and strengthens the high-tier ones in comparison (except wizard, though you can easily build around that).

Agreed! Here's my version of a recipe to do this with a Wizard..

If you are in a low magic game, you definitely want to do the most casting character you possibly can. If there is no magic worth anything as gear, you need to bring as much magic as possible to compensate.

I would suggest an Easy Bake Wizard -- it is VERY item independent, and works even if you don't get any gear in the game whatsoever.

Here's how you make an Easy Bake Wizard.

Easy Bake No "Worries" Wizard

Ingredients:
1 Gray Elf (SRD, MM1)
1 Wizard Class (PHB, SRD)
1 Elf Wizard Racial Substitution Level (Races of the Wild)
1 Eidetic Spellcaster Alternative Class Feature (Dragon Magazine #357 -- the core of the build!)
1 Spontaneous Divination Alternative Class Feature (Complete Champion, be sure to check out the errata online!)
1 Collegiate Wizard Feat (Complete Arcane)
1 Aerenal Arcanist feat (Player's Guide to Eberron, optional)
1 Eschew Materials feat (PHB, SRD)
1 Domain Wizard variant, Transmutation or Conjuration domain (SRD, Unearthed Arcana, optional)
Flaws, to taste (SRD, Unearthed Arcana, optional, but necessary if you want all those feats by level 3)

Mix in bowl, and be sure to top with any one of these feats:
Acidic Splatter, Winter's Blast, or Fiery Burst (all from Complete Mage)

Makes one item independent character.

Notes: if it doesn't turn out right, you picked bad spells. Be sure to look at the various wizard handbooks for how to pick solid, powerful, versatile spells. And it is very thematic that you can do stuff like leave a slot open, or take Uncanny Forethought or Alacritous Cogitation, consider taking those later. And you automatically just 'get' spells like a sorcerer... no need for scrolls or anything. This Wizard idea relies on exactly zero found scrolls and zero need for items to scribe things into his spellbook, and with Eschew Materials and the right spells chosen, doesn't even need a Spell Component Pouch! Also, some people might think that this trading out the ability to specialize three times, but that isn't what is going on. Due to differing language between the various options, that isn't what's happening. Some of the stuff says that 'if you don't specialize, you can do this', some of the stuff says 'by removing the ability to specialize entirely, you gain this ability.' Order in which the abilities are taken matters.

Some numbers:

Basic Wizard: Start with 3+Int mod L1 spells, +2 each level as baseline
Elf Generalist Wizard: +1 wizard spell at start, +1 each level beyond baseline
Collegiate Wizard: Instead of 3+int and +2 each level, baseline is set at 6+int and +4 each level
Aerenal Arcanist: +1 each level beyond baseline, including L1 if you take it then
Domain Wizard (Transmutation or Conjuration): One specific extra spell of each spell levels; +9 spells over career (cantrip is already known)

So at level one, with a 20 int (cause Grey Elf) you know:
13 level one spells, plus mage armor or expeditious retreat automatically
At level 2, you gain six new L1 spells
At level 3, you gain 6 spells of up to spell level 2, and levitate or web, depending...

[JBento]

Play an Elan. They suffer no ageing penalties, and they can pass for humans just fine.

[Vaz]

Why would I be taking a Wizard in a "low magic" game? That is like walking into a gunclub with "low calibre only" carrying a Desert Eagle.

In low magic, there is barely any access to magic; the magicky guys are the biggest baddest boys around for particularly that reason. Any old adventurer simply doesn't have access to all powerful magic; or else they'd already be a mover and shaler.

But y'know, thanks, and all. Nice to know that the general advice is "play another game/setting".

[Rubik]

Play an Elan. They suffer no ageing penalties, and they can pass for humans just fine.They do suffer aging penalties. It says so in the XPH (though not in the SRD).

[Morcleon]

Play an Elan. They suffer no ageing penalties, and they can pass for humans just fine.

Source? The elan in the XPH has age categories, and I don't recall any part about them not receiving aging penalties.

[sreservoir]

Play an Elan. They suffer no ageing penalties, and they can pass for humans just fine.

they do. that have age categories, even. they just ... don't die.

(for reference: elan stops at venerable, killoren stops at old, warforged stops at middle-aged, and, uh. they don't get further mental bonuses.)

[Amidus Drexel]

Also, Elans have a racial Cha penalty, and he's got a Cha-focused build.

[Gavinfoxx]

Why would I be taking a Wizard in a "low magic" game? That is like walking into a gunclub with "low calibre only" carrying a Desert Eagle.


Thee thing is... Low Magic generally means, "No Magic Items". That's what a lot of GMs mean. Player characters are SUPPOSED to be exceptional in a D&D game. Most of the time, if a GM wants a game where the player characters aren't casters, he will say, 'No Full Casters' or 'Mundane classes only'. 'Low Magic' generally just means that in general, you don't find spellcasters (but since player characters are SUPPOSED to be exceptional anyway...) or magic items that much... which means that, if the GM doesn't actually know why the monsters are written up the way they are, and what the numbers of monsters expect the players to be packing, and how powerful they are compared to an under-equipped party, than you are looking at regular TPK's...

[Kelb_Panthera]

"Take a magic class."

Low magic campaigns nerf the already low-tier (read: non-magic) classes and strengthens the high-tier ones in comparison (except wizard, though you can easily build around that).
This depends on what's mean by "low magic."

Thee thing is... Low Magic generally means, "No Magic Items". That's what a lot of GMs mean. Player characters are SUPPOSED to be exceptional in a D&D game. Most of the time, if a GM wants a game where the player characters aren't casters, he will say, 'No Full Casters' or 'Mundane classes only'. 'Low Magic' generally just means that in general, you don't find spellcasters (but since player characters are SUPPOSED to be exceptional anyway...) or magic items that much... which means that, if the GM doesn't actually know why the monsters are written up the way they are, and what the numbers of monsters expect the players to be packing, and how powerful they are compared to an under-equipped party, than you are looking at regular TPK's...

If we go with this assumption though, then these statements are undeniably true.

You can get away with the few to no magic items version of low magic in E6. Otherwise, the game expects you to get at least the level appropriate equipment that gives basic numeric bonuses to actually survive.

I did note you made mention of AEG's Rokugan material. Is Magic of Rokugan on the table? The rules for non-magical enhancement to weapons and spontaneous enhancement of family heirlooms can make up the difference without spellcasters and purchased magical equipment being commonplace.

[Vaz]

We are yes. I believe at some point everyone will be taking OA Samurai (likely at Level 4) for Ancestral Daisho; although I think ti encourage a bit more variety it will be changed to Ancestral Weapon (ie choose any 1 or 2 weapons which can be enhanced). Magic of Rokugan is being used, though.

My build is likely something along the lines of

Human
1; Fighter 1//Crane Clan Courtier 1
2; Fighter 2//Crane Clan Courtier 2
3; Marshal 1//Crane Clan Courtier 3
4; Samurai 1//Crane Clan Courtier 4
5; Samurai 2//Crane Clan Courtier 5

That is the typical progression, and gets me 7 Feats in total, which will go towards to getting the Feat pre-requisites for Tattooed Monk, which will now be Crane Tattoo at TM 1 and Bellflower at TM 3, as well as Iaijutsu Master, all the while buffing Crane Clan Courtier Sky High.

With Crane Clan Courtier, I can send my Charisma through the rooof, with Marshal I can send my Charisma to Dex (or indeed any particular stat, as well as the rest of my team), with Iaijutsu Master I get Charisma to Iaijutsu Damage, and Dex to Attack, Bellflower allows me twice a day double my Charisma Bonus. Hence why I was wondering if there was a cheap, non build intensive (and through the setting, non magical) way of getting a "free" +3 Charisma without suffering -6 to Phys stats.

Quick Aside Question
To get the benefit of high Iaijutsu Damage, is there any way for a lawful or at least neutral character to get pounce? I know Spirit Lion Totem is available, but that is wasting some of its class features on being lawful, while the other class features like Fast Movement are lost through the use of the Totem. Are there any Lawful Barbarians around I can use Spirit Lion 1 Barbarian with, or any other similarly simple ways to get Pounce? My Initiative is looking somewhere in the region of +50 before Dex Boosts thanks to the Diamond Mind Maneuvre, and I'd like to take advantage of that with being able to put out as many attacks as possible.

[BowStreetRunner]

My build is likely something along the lines of

Human
1; Fighter 1//Crane Clan Courtier 1
2; Fighter 2//Crane Clan Courtier 2
3; Marshal 1//Crane Clan Courtier 3
4; Samurai 1//Crane Clan Courtier 4
5; Samurai 2//Crane Clan Courtier 5

That is the typical progression, and gets me 7 Feats in total, which will go towards to getting the Feat pre-requisites for Tattooed Monk, which will now be Crane Tattoo at TM 1 and Bellflower at TM 3, as well as Iaijutsu Master, all the while buffing Crane Clan Courtier Sky High.

I love how the Crane Tattoo fits thematically with your Crane Clan Courtier build. :smallcool:


...is there any way for a lawful or at least neutral character to get pounce?

Claws of the Leopard (+2 spiked gauntlets from Complete Adventurer p 129) gives this but just with the claws themselves.

The Tiger Claw maneuver 'Pouncing Charge' from Tome of Battle gets this. If you are not a martial adept, then you will need to be 9th level and take the feat Martial Study 3 times (or Martial Study twice and Martial Stance once) to get this. However, taking a one-level dip in Warblade at 9th level could accomplish the same thing, and you get a recovery method.

[Vaz]

I was planning on getting a Warblade later on; it seems that the later the better for maneuvres. Thanks for your help guys, questions answered!