need an optimization for fighter

[thubby]

pretty simple, i need to know the highest possible damage a lvl 9 fighter can do in 1 attack with NO MAGIC, no mount, and no fanciful gear (like gnomish helicopters or the like).

assume the target is a free standing stone wall of arbitrary size, all 3.5 splat books.

i figure someone has either done this, or could at least point me in the right direction.

edit:human preferable, but 0LA humanoids are fine.

[Artillery]

Assuming average WBL for lvl 9, so 36000gp.
Attacking a stone wall, so hardness 8.
Assuming 32 point buy

Is LA, Racial HD or templates allowed?

[TopCheese]

Standard charging build I would guess, go human for the extra feat?

Can you go Barbarian instead of fighter? Free str boost helps.

[BowStreetRunner]

Okay, let's start with race. Orc would work well here. It's a +4 STR with 0 LA. You take -2 in all of your mental attributes, but those are dump stats if all you are looking for is to maximize damage. And to max out damage, you need STR to be high. STR is your highest stat then, so we'll give it an 18 and with the +4 you start at 22. Bumps at levels 4 and 8 bring it up to 24. That's a +7 to attack and damage in melee.

Your core damage boost is going to come from wielding a two-handed weapon while using the feat Power Attack. The two-handed weapon increases your STR bonus by 1.5, so instead of +7 it is now +10 on damage. With Power Attack you can now reduce your attack bonus (up to your BAB) and give yourself a damage bonus of double the amount. At 9th level that means -9 to attack, +18 to damage.

The next thing to pick up will be Weapon Specialization and Melee Weapon Mastery which will give you a total of +4 to damage. You will have to pick up Weapon Focus to gain these, but that helps to offset the -9 to attack a little bit.

Powerful Charge (Miniatures Handbook/MM3) can add an extra 1d8 damage to that.

I highly recommend taking Knowledge Devotion. I know, the knowledge skills are all going to be cross-class skills for you, but even if you just have 1 rank in each applicable knowledge skill that's a +1 bonus to attack and damage. And if you can get higher knowledge checks (say with the Collector of Stories skill trick) then it can get higher - all the way up to +5, although that will be rare for a fighter.

So right there, even without scoring a critical hit, you are talking +33 to damage. With the right weapon (Two Handed Sword or Greataxe are decent choices) and a critical, you can be scoring 4d6+1d8+66 or 2d12+1d8+99 right there. And with a little help from Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Minotaur Greathammer (see Greathorn Minotaur, MMIV p100) you have a crit of 2d12+1d8+132.

Minotaur Greathammer: 1d12, 19-20/x4
STR 24: +7 x 1.5 for Two Handed Weapon: +10
Power Attack for -9 with Two Handed Weapon: +18
Powerful Charge: +1d8
Weapon Specialization: +2
Melee Weapon Mastery (Bludgeoning):+2
Knowledge Devotion: +1

Edit1: forgot the 1.5xSTR bonus
Edit2: added Powerful Charge

[Urpriest]

What exactly does no magic mean in this instance? I'm going to assume it means something like "in a dead magic zone", so we're assuming no magic gear, for example.

Similarly, I'm assuming our Fighter is an LA +0 race with no RHD.

Is LA Buyoff available? I'll assume it isn't, all it really can do here is add more strength though.

You've essentially got two options for high damage on a single attack: charging and maneuvers. As a level 9 Fighter you can have up to level 2 maneuvers, so you can have Battle Leader's Charge, so you can do both! None of the other maneuver options will add more damage than that (10 in this case). So if we have the feat room, might as well go for it.

Power Attack is a given. I'm assuming you're using an Adamantine weapon to bypass hardness.

Other applicable options from Person_Man's various melee guides: Leap Attack will double your Power Attack returns, Headlong Rush will double your damage (though it requires Orc race), Battle Jump will also (requires Taer region).

So let's suppose we've got an Orc Fighter 9. We start with Str 18, +4 for Orc, +2 from levels for 24. We have 9 feats at this point. Martial Study twice gets us some random White Raven maneuver and Battle Leader's Charge. We'll assume that we can't exploit Blood in the Water, since that would be a potentially infinite loop. The best stance then is probably Leading the Charge, which adds another 4 damage and which we can get with Martial Stance. We'll see if it's worthwhile.

That's three feats. We then take Power Attack, Leap Attack, Headlong Rush, and Battle Jump. Seven feats, two remain to get extra stuff.

Power Attack and Leap Attack have an odd interaction, which depends on your interpretation. It's probably intended to end up multiplying the penalty you take to-hit by three, but the actual wording makes it look like it multiplies it by six. I'll leave the following agnostic to that.

Our damage is:
(Base Weapon (if we spend our last two feats on Monkey Grip and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Heavy Greatsword), we can use a Large Heavy Greatsword, giving us 4d6, average 14) + 10 (Str) + 10 (strike) +4 (stance) +27-54 (Leap Attack, depending on interpretation) ) x 3 (Headlong Rush and Battle Jump)

On the most favorable interpretation, this gives us on average 276 damage, max 306. So that's your starting answer. I don't doubt more theoretical op could do better.

Edit: Messed up Str calculation. All the rest works.

[Artillery]

I agree, Barbarian would be better for this, D12 HD and rage. Or ToB.

Best BDF race with LA+0 is probably
Dragonborn Water Orc
+4 Str, -2 dex, +4 con, -2 int, -2 wis, -2 cha
Has a swim speed; no drawbacks besides mental stats
Base stats are 32 point buy.
16+4=20 str + 2
14-2=12 dex
16+4=20 con
10-2=8 int
10-2=8 wis
10-2=8 cha
Barbarian rage is +4 str, +4 con, -2 AC, +2 will save
26 str, 24 con, lasts for 10 rounds. Not counting items
Base HP with average rolls is 109HP, when raging 127HP.

Equipment:
Large +1 Valorous Adamantine Greatsword (11100GP)
Gauntlets of Ogre Strength +4STR (16000GP)
Strong Arm Bracers(6000GP)(increased weapon size)
Masterwork Potion belt (filled with 50GP Potion of Enlarge Person)
Non-kill people stuff here.

Feats:
Power Attack
Leap Attack
Improved Bullrush
Shock Trooper

Spirit Lion Barbarian ACF: Trade Fast Movement for Pounce

While Raging, and enlarged you have a strength of 32, constitution of 24, -3AC. Full power attack Shock Trooper makes this -12AC.

We are wielding a Huge Greatsword with Reach 10" that ignores Hardness less then 20.

We focus on charging. Full Power Attack, +18 dmg for two-handed weapon. Leap Attack, ups that to +27 dmg.

Our strength mod is +11 so +16 dmg for two-handed.

Our to hit, due to Shock Trooper's heedless charge it keeping it up:
9 from BAB
11 from Strength
0 from +1 weapon cancels being large
+20 to hit on first attack, +15 to hit on second attack

Before Valorous we are at 4d6+42. Valorour doubles dmg done with a charge.
8d6+84 dmg, averaging 112 dmg per hit, 132 max. We get 2 attacks due to Pounce.

Edit: Take a Flaw, add Headlong Rush due to being an Orc.
Due to multiplying rules for D&D our 112 avg dmg increases to 168 avg dmg instead of 224 like some might expect.

[WinWin]

You're looking for multipliers.

Easiest to obtain are power attack multipliers (leap attack), charge multipliers (gear, feats like battle jump) and simple strength multipliers for using a weapon in two hands.

Obviously strength is a primary concern, as it can provide a substantial base value, so you can do things like make a tauric and feral water orc in order to achieve ridiculous strength, but whatever.

For example, i'll use a centaur with 3 fighter levels (9th level):

Base strength 28. +9 modifier, +13 damage with 2 handed weapons.

no gear except a Large lance. 2d6 base damage. x2 on charge.

power attack. leap attack. +21 damage on a jumping charge.

comes out to 4d6+68, or 92 damage max.

A simple example, but it emphasises the importance of multiplying static modifiers in order to reach high damage totals. I am sure that someone else can push the total into triple digits with little effort.

[Gavinfoxx]

If we are taking exotic weapon proficiency, wouldn't Heavy Jovar be better than Heavy Greatsword? So Heavy Jovar made of adamantine?

[Urpriest]

If we are taking exotic weapon proficiency, wouldn't Heavy Jovar be better than Heavy Greatsword? So Heavy Jovar made of adamantine?

I don't think you can crit objects.

[JaronK]

Assuming you didn't want LA, the best I can come up with offhand without any magic is Orc Fighter 9 with Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack, Spirited Charge, Weapon Focus Lance, and Weapon Specialization: Lance.

Assuming an 18 base in Strength, +2 from levels, +4 from Orc, you have strength 24. Ride any mount of your choice, and charge. Power Attack while holding the lance in both hands for +18 damage. The lance + Spirited Charge multiplies you damage by 3. So now you've got the following:

1d8 (Lance) + 10 (Strength*1.5) + 18 (Power Attack) + 2 (Weapon Spec) X3 = 3d8+90, or around 103.5 damage on average.

Of course, swapping out for Half Minotaur (+1LA) would help a good bit.

JaronK

[Urpriest]

Assuming you didn't want LA, the best I can come up with offhand without any magic is Orc Fighter 9 with Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack, Spirited Charge, Weapon Focus Lance, and Weapon Specialization: Lance.

Assuming an 18 base in Strength, +2 from levels, +4 from Orc, you have strength 24. Ride any mount of your choice, and charge. Power Attack while holding the lance in both hands for +18 damage. The lance + Spirited Charge multiplies you damage by 3. So now you've got the following:

1d8 (Lance) + 10 (Strength*1.5) + 18 (Power Attack) + 2 (Weapon Spec) X3 = 3d8+90, or around 103.5 damage on average.

Of course, swapping out for Half Minotaur (+1LA) would help a good bit.

JaronK

OP says no mount, and you don't need Shock Trooper if you're hitting a wall.

[JaronK]

Ah yes, I missed the no mount bit. And you do need Shock Trooper, because even immobile objects have an AC of 5.

But in the last build, just get Leap Attack and Battle Jump instead of the mounted stuff, and use an Adamantium Fullblade (A&EG, 2d8 damage two handed weapon) to hit the wall.

...why are we optimizing splattering against a wall, exactly?

And are we allowed to have level adjust?

JaronK

[Urpriest]

Ah yes, I missed the no mount bit. And you do need Shock Trooper, because even immobile objects have an AC of 5.


AC 3, actually, and that's for a medium object (there's an extra -2 for being inanimate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm)). Since we have +7 to hit from Strength, we'll hit no matter what anyway.

[Artillery]

Why get a full blade though? A Full Blade is a large Bastard Sword mechanically.
You would be better off spending the 6000GP for Strong Arm Bracers from MIC.

Strong Arm Bracers are basically wearable Powerful Build, though only for weapon sizes. Full Blade isn't worth the feat unless you can get to the larger sizes. As a medium creature it only is +2 avg damage vs a greatsword, and you take -2 to hit.

If you want to get stupid just uses a Weighted Greatsword its 2d8 18-20/x2 and its still a Martial weapon.(Arms and Armor is the most absurd 3.5 splat book ever)

Heck while we are at it why not get a Large +1 Keen Valorous Kaorti Resin Weighted Greatsword, 3d8 15-20/x4? That way if you ever attack something alive you will wipe it out of existence 30% of the time.

448 avg dmg a crit sounds amazing. Using my above Barbarian build

[herrhauptmann]

If we are taking exotic weapon proficiency, wouldn't Heavy Jovar be better than Heavy Greatsword? So Heavy Jovar made of adamantine?

Heavy means your weapon is made of gold or platinum, so no adamantine heavy weapons.



Ah yes, I missed the no mount bit. And you do need Shock Trooper, because even immobile objects have an AC of 5.

Nah, your strength score will be more than enough that you hit on a 2 or better. Sadly, a 1 is still a miss, even for a 9th level warrior hitting a wall.

[Urpriest]

Heavy means your weapon is made of gold or platinum, so no adamantine heavy weapons.


Good point there. And Heavy doesn't get you as much additional damage as piercing hardness, so we need to go with Adamantine. That feat should probably be replaced by some other damage booster, maybe a Devotion feat.

[Gavinfoxx]

Is obdurium heavier than adamantine?

[JaronK]

Why get a full blade though? A Full Blade is a large Bastard Sword mechanically.
You would be better off spending the 6000GP for Strong Arm Bracers from MIC.

He said no magic. I assumed that meant no magic items, so those bracers aren't available. The rest of your stuff doesn't work for the same reason.

And the simple reason is that the Full Blade is the single highest damage weapon, unless we're mounted (lance).

JaronK

[Artillery]

I read no magic as not being able to be buffed by other people. Magical gear would be fine, as long a it wasn't a gnomish helicopter. Things like a Belt of Giant Strength are magic, but not unreasonable to expect to find on a fighter.

Heck, if your optimizing to just damage an unmoving stone wall nonmagically why not fill a sack with Stonebreaker Acid and throw it at the wall? That's zero magic, just alchemy.

[thubby]

...why are we optimizing splattering against a wall, exactly?

And are we allowed to have level adjust?

JaronK

mostly because my friend is stuck on the issue of realism. see, he has it in his head that, for example, a long sword shouldn't work against the likes of a golem because people cant really cut stone with a sword.

I said that adventurers are clearly not subject to such limitations. their stats and abilities extend beyond human even without magic. one of the examples I gave was that a mid level fighter could in fact destroy stone in a single blow. i also gave examples like crazy jump checks and enough Hp to fall from Mt everest, but he kept harping on the destroying stone thing.

i knew it was possible, just didnt remember the how of it, so he said "ill believe it when i see it" and here we are.

also, i was thinking of using it for his campaign, just to rib him.
but mostly because i just wanted to know how you went about turning one of the weaker classes into a killer steel covered rocket :smalltongue:

[herrhauptmann]

Is obdurium heavier than adamantine?

Is that Immortals Handbook? I dunno if it would be kosher or not. Probably not.
[Heavy] is specifically gold and platinum from Magic of Faerun, so even materials that are heavier/denser wouldn't get the [Heavy] tag.


Starting from an arbitrary base strength.
Half orc. +2 str.
Half orc paragon 3. +2 str Can save 3 levels by changing race.
Race: Orc. +4 str.
Feral Template. +4 Str
Orc paragon 3. +2 str.
Whirling Frenzy Spirit Lion Barbarian 1. Extra attack, Pounce and +4 Str on rage.
4 levels left to play with. Assuming no LA buyoff.
Psy warrior 2 for Expansion. +2 Str. (and 2 feats)
Fighter 2. (2 feats)
Warblade. Maneuvers.
Total:+16 Strength, 3 attacks while raging, 8 feats at level 9

Feats:
Power attack.
Leap Attack.
Imp sunder.
Combat Brute. This is for momentum swing. On the round after a charge, get your full power attack bonuses again.
Headlong rush. Double damage.
Battle jump. Double damage again for a triple.
Destructive Rage. I dunno if it helps or not, but why not. Also a frenzied berserker pre-req, which you might want later.
Martial Study. If no destructive rage, take martial study twice.

ToB will help a lot, but I don't know the maneuvers well enough.

Items:
Adamantine/green star metal weapon.
Valorous weapon. Won't activate the round after a charge.
Armbands of Might, stacked with strongarm bracers.

[Gavinfoxx]

Obdurium isnt immortals handbook; its stronghold builders guide, a wotc product.

[Gavinfoxx]

So the idea is a completely nonmagical fighter with no magic items with an utterly normal non masterwork iron longsword? Fantastic, some constraints!

[JaronK]

Well, that being the case, I'd go with a Leap Attack/Battle Jump/Power Attack guy with an Adamantium Fullblade. You should have little trouble doing 100+ damage to this rock with a single blow. The Orc version:

Power Attack, Battle Jump, Leap Attack, EWP: Fullblade, Weapon Specialization, Weapon Focus, and Slashing Weapon Mastery. Just charge the rock, doing 36 damage from power attack/leap attack and 2d8 from the Fullblade, as well as 10 damage from strength (Str 24), and 4 more from Weapon Spec/Mastery and then double all of it from Battle Jump. That's 4d8+100 damage, and it ignores hardness.

We could of course do much better by making him a Half Minotaur Orc.

JaronK

[Artillery]

We could squeeze a bit more of what we want if we do some Half-Miontaur Dragonborn Water Orc.

Going from medium to large gets us
+8 str, -2 dex, +4 con, +2 NA, -1 AC
Half-minotaur gets us
+4 str, +2 con, -2 int
Dragonborn gets rid of Orc light sensitity and lets Water Orc's breath air
+2 con, -2 dex
Water Orc, because its an Orc with +2 con
+4 str, +2 con, -2 int, -2 wis, -2 cha
So for a LA+1 with no racial HD we get
+16 Str, -4 dex, +10 con, -4 int, -2 wis, -2 cha, +2 NA, -1 AC, -1 to-hit, being large
32-point buy
16+16=32 str
14-4=10 dex
14+10=24 con
14-4=10 int
10-2=8 wis
10-2=8 cha
So we are now a lvl 8 fighter instead.

[herrhauptmann]

Obdurium isnt immortals handbook; its stronghold builders guide, a wotc product.

Gotchya. For these purposes, it's identical to adamantine. And even if it is heavier than adamantine (not specified), it's gold/platinum you need to check. If it is heavier than gold, maybe a DM would be willing to say it would count like gold/platinum for a Heavy weapon.

[Mato]

Wild Proto Dragonborn Water Orc Fighter 9 (lulz)

Str: 28 (+9) = 18 (base) + 4 (orc) + 4 (proto) + 2 (wild)
Feats (4 normal, 2 flaw, 5 bonus): Headlong Rush, Battle Jump, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Improved Bullrush, Shock Trooper.
Items: +1 Valorous Gloryborn Heavy Halberd of Vaulting*, Partial Wand of Rhino's Rush, Strongarm Bracers.
*see a normal halberd of vaulting, except +1 & valor rather than +2.

Damage: 408 = 9 (2d8 avg) + 1 (enhance) + 9 (str) + 4 (thf) + 1 (glory) + 44 (pa 9+2*2 for thf +100% for leap) * 6 (headlong+battle+valor+dive+rhino)

A level of Whirling Frenzy Lion Totem Barbarian would of course greatly help to triple the attacks (whirling+pounce) and I'm sure if I really wanted I could break 1k in total damage easy enough if I used it. But then again, Fighter 9 (:smallsigh:) and it's enough to kill everything but the Big T in one massive attack which begs the question of why?

[TopCheese]

Wild Proto Dragonborn Water Orc Fighter 9 (lulz)

Str: 28 (+9) = 18 (base) + 4 (orc) + 4 (proto) + 2 (wild)
Feats (4 normal, 2 flaw, 5 bonus): Headlong Rush, Battle Jump, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Improved Bullrush, Shock Trooper.
Items: +1 Valorous Gloryborn Heavy Halberd of Vaulting*, Partial Wand of Rhino's Rush, Strongarm Bracers.
*see a normal halberd of vaulting, except +1 & valor rather than +2.

Damage: 408 = 9 (2d8 avg) + 1 (enhance) + 9 (str) + 4 (thf) + 1 (glory) + 44 (pa 9+2*2 for thf +100% for leap) * 6 (headlong+battle+valor+dive+rhino)

A level of Whirling Frenzy Lion Totem Barbarian would of course greatly help to triple the attacks (whirling+pounce) and I'm sure if I really wanted I could break 1k in total damage easy enough if I used it. But then again, Fighter 9 (:smallsigh:) and it's enough to kill everything but the Big T in one massive attack which begs the question of why?

To get to the other side.

[Greenish]

mostly because my friend is stuck on the issue of realism. see, he has it in his head that, for example, a long sword shouldn't work against the likes of a golem because people cant really cut stone with a sword.You should've pointed out how in D&D people can learn to shoot fireballs just by studying a book an hour each morning. :smalltongue:

[Morcleon]

Another thing to point out is the Unseelie Fey template. Sure, you get -2 Str, but this damage decrease is more than made up for by your flight speed, which lets you do dive attacks for double damage on a charge.

[Hiro Protagonest]

You should've pointed out how in D&D people can learn to shoot fireballs just by studying a book an hour each morning. :smalltongue:

Yeah. Buying a spellbook and killing some goblins can make you a decent wizard (with one level in whatever class you started with). Realism doesn't apply.

[Curmudgeon]

assume the target is a free standing stone wall of arbitrary size

I highly recommend taking Knowledge Devotion.
Knowledge Devotion can give you bonuses to attack and damage any creature in D&D, but it does nothing against a stone wall. You would need to animate the stone wall first, and then Knowledge Devotion would give you a boost based on your Knowledge: Arcana skill check.

[BowStreetRunner]

Knowledge Devotion can give you bonuses to attack and damage any creature in D&D, but it does nothing against a stone wall. You would need to animate the stone wall first, and then Knowledge Devotion would give you a boost based on your Knowledge: Arcana skill check.

Yeah, when I read the OP I took the reference to a wall to be metaphorical - as in just any old target. I never thought someone would actually be planning on trying to do max damage to a real, honest-to-goodness wall in one swing. After all, the wall isn't going to run away. You can sit there and hack at it a few times!

Obviously, the Knowledge Devotion was the least of the problems with my build. You aren't going to crit a wall either. Objects are immune to nonlethal damage and to critical hits.

Personally, I think this is what Stone Dragon maneuvers were designed for. Ancient Mountain Hammer, FTW!!! Extraordinary ability, extra 12d6 damage and overcomes hardness. What's not to like?

[Gavinfoxx]

-enough point buy to get an 18 str
-LA+0 only / 0 rhd only
-water orc race
-dragonborn template
-using a normal medium iron longsword (two handing it) with no magic or extraordinary equipment or any gear whatsoever
-no mounts
-No LA buyoff
9 levels of fighter

L1: Battle Jump
F1: power attack
F2: Animal Devotion
L3: martial stance (whatever)
F4: Strength Devotion
L6: leap attack
F6: powerful charge
F8: martial study: battle leader's charge
L9: headlong rush

So let's see here:
Base 18 str, +2 from levels, +4 from race, edit: +4 from Ape's Fury. Against the AC of a wall, that means we always hit on a 2 or higher, even without Shock Trooper.

1d8 from Longsword
1d8 from Powerful Charge
+10 from Battle Leader's Charge
strength bonus is +8, for net +12 damage from strength from two handing the weapon...
-Strength Devotion lets you ignore hardness
-Full Power attack with a 9 BAB

...and a ton of multipliers, from battle jump, leap attack, headlong rush. Um, can someone help me with the rest of the math? Or help me find errors in this?

[thubby]

You should've pointed out how in D&D people can learn to shoot fireballs just by studying a book an hour each morning. :smalltongue:

to quote him. "that's magic"
which is somehow a free pass :smallconfused:

[Gavinfoxx]

Ah that's +4 strength from ape's fury...

[Gavinfoxx]

I believe my character build does, on a charge:

(2d8+10+13+(9x3))x3

So 6d8+150

So 27+150

So ~177 damage, and his iron longsword counts as adamantine, and it ignores hardness...

So a Fighter 9, using only feats, with no magic items, wearing only normal clothes, with only a simple medium iron longsword. There ya go. =D

[Xervous]

to quote him. "that's magic"
which is somehow a free pass :smallconfused:

and these people are why martial characters can't have fun stuff...

hope these answers the playground has are good enough, and I pray you never have to play with him as DM... For your sake and the catgirls.

[Urpriest]

to quote him. "that's magic"
which is somehow a free pass :smallconfused:

Remind him that it isn't. The ability to cast spells is nonmagical, it's the spells themselves that are magical. Even in a dead magic zone a wizard still has all their prepared spells in their head.

Anyway, you don't need to maximize this. Stone has Hardness 8. Someone with any strength at all can chop down a stone wall bit by bit with a longsword. That's already impossible.

[Gavinfoxx]

Anyway, you don't need to maximize this. Stone has Hardness 8. Someone with any strength at all can chop down a stone wall bit by bit with a longsword. That's already impossible.

Yea, that's right! A strength 12 person can eventually destroy a stone wall with a Longsword!

[JaronK]

Actually, you can't. Remember that damage to objects from slashing weapons is halved.

JaronK

[Gavinfoxx]

Actually, you can't. Remember that damage to objects from slashing weapons is halved.

JaronK

Ah, right. Forgot...

[Urpriest]

Actually, you can't. Remember that damage to objects from slashing weapons is halved.

JaronK

Halved before or after hardness? If after, the minimum 1 damage clause should apply.

[Mato]

SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm) notes divide before Hardness on Energy attacks and Ranged damage, but no note on Slashing...

[JaronK]

There's no minimum damage of one, and it's halved before anything else. So, most people can't actually hurt stone with a longsword.

JaronK

[Gavinfoxx]

So how about a strength 13 Warrior with Power Attack?

[Sayt]

If slashing damage is a problem, then surely a normal, medium warhammer will suffice, as one doesn't care about crit in this example.

[JaronK]

Bludgeoning damage is also halved. The only things that aren't reduced against objects are acid damage and sonic damage.

Power Attack can do it but you need enough levels to get the job done. Against stone, you need a base 16 damage just to do anything with a melee weapon, so a level 8 Fighter with Power Attack can use that feat to essentially cut through hardness.

Or, of course, a ToB class can just use Mountain Hammer.

JaronK

[Urpriest]

JaronK, looking through the Player's Handbook section on this, I don't see any evidence that melee weapons suffer 1/2 damage for attacking objects. Was it changed in the Rules Compendium?

[Lord_Gareth]

to quote him. "that's magic"
which is somehow a free pass :smallconfused:

Hit your friend with a PHB and scream, "THINK OF THE CATGIRLS!"

[JaronK]

JaronK, looking through the Player's Handbook section on this, I don't see any evidence that melee weapons suffer 1/2 damage for attacking objects. Was it changed in the Rules Compendium?

Hmm, having trouble finding it now. I did find reference to the fact that you can't destroy objects with piercing damage, but I can't find the specific "half damage from bludgeoning and slashing, no damage from piercing" thing.

JaronK

[Lord_Gareth]

Hmm, having trouble finding it now. I did find reference to the fact that you can't destroy objects with piercing damage, but I can't find the specific "half damage from bludgeoning and slashing, no damage from piercing" thing.

JaronK


Smashing an Object

Smashing a weapon or shield with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon is accomplished by the sunder special attack. Smashing an object is a lot like sundering a weapon or shield, except that your attack roll is opposed by the object’s AC. Generally, you can smash an object only with a bludgeoning or slashing weapon.
Armor Class

Objects are easier to hit than creatures because they usually don’t move, but many are tough enough to shrug off some damage from each blow. An object’s Armor Class is equal to 10 + its size modifier + its Dexterity modifier. An inanimate object has not only a Dexterity of 0 (-5 penalty to AC), but also an additional -2 penalty to its AC. Furthermore, if you take a full-round action to line up a shot, you get an automatic hit with a melee weapon and a +5 bonus on attack rolls with a ranged weapon.
Hardness

Each object has hardness—a number that represents how well it resists damage. Whenever an object takes damage, subtract its hardness from the damage. Only damage in excess of its hardness is deducted from the object’s hit points (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points; Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points; and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points).
Hit Points

An object’s hit point total depends on what it is made of and how big it is (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points; Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points; and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points). When an object’s hit points reach 0, it’s ruined.

Very large objects have separate hit point totals for different sections.
Energy Attacks

Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness.
Ranged Weapon Damage

Objects take half damage from ranged weapons (unless the weapon is a siege engine or something similar). Divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the object’s hardness.
Ineffective Weapons

Certain weapons just can’t effectively deal damage to certain objects.
Immunities

Objects are immune to nonlethal damage and to critical hits.

Even animated objects, which are otherwise considered creatures, have these immunities because they are constructs.

This is what the SRD has to say, which hints at (but does not state) that piercing does not work.