Will the OOTS dungeon crawl through Xykon's fortress-tomb-thingie?

[Gift Jeraff]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html

It looks like a cool setpiece, but it would be pretty pointless since the reader knows the real phylactery isn't there, unless there's a twist to it.

What do you think?

[ti'esar]

I doubt it.

[FujinAkari]

I don't think the Order will, per say, but I could definitely see the Sapphire Guard assailing it. Once the order moves on to Kraagor's gate I could easily see a "We'll delay him here, you go and destroy his phylactory!" scenario made all the more ironic since the Paladins will have no effect except to distract Xykon.

[Winter]

Why should they? There is nothing there. No Phylactery, no Xykon.

[mrzomby]

1. How would the order find out about it?

2. Actually getting there would probably be pretty hard, They may head there AFTER the gate, but doubt they would waste time on all the magic they'd need to get there(remember, V can't teleport without the soul splices)

[PEACH]

Plane Shift is a fifth level spell for Durkon. They could plane shift to the fortress if they knew about it.

[Kareasint]

2. Actually getting there would probably be pretty hard, They may head there AFTER the gate, but doubt they would waste time on all the magic they'd need to get there(remember, V can't teleport without the soul splices)

Plane Shift. Durkon can cast the spell (5th level) but there is no need to go there at all. The fortress was intended to hide the Phylactery but the real one is not there. Redcloak still has it. Now, after a few centuries, it would be worth going to because it could have been used to store magic items, treasure and other odd bits of junk.

[factotum]

Why should they? There is nothing there. No Phylactery, no Xykon.

How do they know that? Even Xykon doesn't know that the phylactery he's left in his Fortress of Doom (tm) isn't his real one!

[Peelee]

How do they know that? Even Xykon doesn't know that the phylactery he's left in his Fortress of Doom (tm) isn't his real one!

While I fully agree with you, they also don't know about the fortress. Granted, the information could leak to them (through the oracle, just to give an example), but with only Xykon, Redcloak, and Jirix knowing, there is a pretty tight lid on it, and if they try to divine the location of the phylactery, they would likely still not discover the fortress (because, ya know, not there).

[Winter]

As for finding it: Note that Jirix also does not know where it is (only that a fortress exists). Redcloak might also not know, depending on the spell, Xykon might have given a pre-written scroll or so (I find it likely he does know, though).

The MitD is, as always, a wildcard. If it actually has been to the Astral Plane, it could have some clue it does not yet know about about those things.

An idea how the fight could move there could be this: Assume Xykon survives the "final battle" at the last gate and knows his phylactery is fake, he'd flee to his fortress where the Order had to smoke him out.
This setup includes classic "You flee, I blow up the fortress"-scenarios where one of the good guys (at least we are made to believe that) sacrifices him-/herself (given how the story went so far, that would be a job for the party caster, that horrible bastard needs some redemption bitterly).

[SteveDJ]

Granted, the information could leak to them (through the oracle, just to give an example), but with only Xykon, Redcloak, and Jirix knowing, there is a pretty tight lid on it

You left off the list of those who know: MitD (who could accidentally mention something)... and some :roach: bugs... :smallbiggrin:

[AgentofOdd]

I suppose it's possible if Xykon survives the destruction of the four Gates he could decide to hide in his fortress and have some fun being a epic level dungeon boss. The OotS would follow of course and the final showdown will begin.

[Sunken Valley]

Yes, it was probably very hard to draw and you don't make a big fortress if you don't use it.

[Dr.Epic]

It looks like a cool setpiece, but it would be pretty pointless since the reader knows the real phylactery isn't there, unless there's a twist to it.

You just answered your own question.

[JennTora]

As for finding it: Note that Jirix also does not know where it is (only that a fortress exists). Redcloak might also not know, depending on the spell, Xykon might have given a pre-written scroll or so (I find it likely he does know, though).

The MitD is, as always, a wildcard. If it actually has been to the Astral Plane, it could have some clue it does not yet know about about those things.

An idea how the fight could move there could be this: Assume Xykon survives the "final battle" at the last gate and knows his phylactery is fake, he'd flee to his fortress where the Order had to smoke him out.
This setup includes classic "You flee, I blow up the fortress"-scenarios where one of the good guys (at least we are made to believe that) sacrifices him-/herself (given how the story went so far, that would be a job for the party caster, that horrible bastard needs some redemption bitterly).

Definitely, lawful good divine spellcasters are so annoying, especially with that whole do your duty even if it hurts you crap and the burying your feelings in your heart when they'd be better expressed.

Oh wait, did you mean vaarsuvius? ...never mind then.

To the OP, how would they find out? Why would xykon go to the trouble of msking something like that if he was just going to tell them? I doubt redcloak would tell them because the alarm spells would go off and I'm pretty sure Xykon would be asking redcloak how they found out. Redcloak would have to blame jirix or mitd. Probably mitd. But it still make xykon more suspicious. I really can't think of a scenario where telling them would accomplish anything That an implosion or two wouldn't, either.

Edit: i just realized, roy's dad might know. But would he know about redcloak making fake one or would he be too focused on xykon to woory about redcloak? Now it seems more plausible.

[coineineagh]

Redcloak could place a distraction on the Astral Plane himself (which will alert Xykon magically that the fortress is under attack), having Xykon teleport away in a panic, so that Redcloak and the Gate can have some alone time. Perhaps just after the arcane half of the ritual is complete? It is the first half, I believe.
Then Redcloak can complete it, and maybe even destroy the real phylactery befor Xykon even gets back.

Xykon's corporeal form would still be around, I think, but he'd have no idea Redcloak destroyed his phylactery.:smallbiggrin:

[Killer Angel]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html

It looks like a cool setpiece, but it would be pretty pointless since the reader knows the real phylactery isn't there, unless there's a twist to it.

What do you think?

I think you're right: it's a cool but pointless setpiece, and the readers know it's fake. It won't be explored.

On the other hand, as DM, you could easily set up a campaign for a group of adventurers to destroy the phylactery of an epic lich. Bonus points if your players don't read OotS.

[Winter]

Oh wait, did you mean vaarsuvius? ...never mind then.

I am not sure where Durkon is a "bastard that needs redemption". So it must be the other caster - that one with the Genocide on his back. :smallwink:

[FujinAkari]

I am not sure where Durkon is a "bastard that needs redemption". So it must be the other caster - that one with the Genocide on his back. :smallwink:

Good job! You got the joke! :P

[Winter]

Good job! You got the joke! :P

It looked more like it was edited in later. :smallbiggrin:

[Smolder]

Why would the Giant introduce such a cool looking set piece and then let it go to waste?

It's called foreshadowing, people!

Let's say that at Kraagor's gate, the Order somehow defeats Xykon, forcing a retreat by him and RC.

Where will they retreat to? The simplest answer is to Plane Shift away to their secret lair to regroup.

If the Order witnesses their escape, or the MITD reveals his Astral Plane affinity, it's off to the Planes we go!

[ti'esar]

Oh, good grief, not this again.

[Winter]

It's called foreshadowing, people!

Not every gun you spot actually has to belong to Chekhov...

[FujinAkari]

Why would the Giant introduce such a cool looking set piece and then let it go to waste?

It's called foreshadowing, people!

Let's say that at Kraagor's gate, the Order somehow defeats Xykon, forcing a retreat by him and RC.

Where will they retreat to? The simplest answer is to Plane Shift away to their secret lair to regroup.

If the Order witnesses their escape, or the MITD reveals his Astral Plane affinity, it's off to the Planes we go!


I love the certainty expressed here. The details are world-building, not foreshadowing.

In other words, Conservation of Detail is overrated.

:P

The astral dungeon works equally well as world-building (you think Xykon -won't- go through some additional hoops after nearly having his soul unmade?) as it does as foreshadowing.

Claiming that there is no other reason Rich could have introduced such a... wait... I have a quote for that too.


Also, as a general rule of thumb, no one should say the sentence, "There's no (or no other) possible narrative purpose for Rich to have done X!" until the story is completed. Because there's always a narrative purpose, you just haven't thought of what it is.

Sometimes, the narrative purpose is to set up something that won't happen for 200 strips. Sometimes, it's to enable a joke, or to make the narrative easier to understand for non-players. Sometimes, it's just to stop people from wondering why they didn't use a different spell. And sometimes, it's just a deliberate red herring because this is a serialized story that won't reach its ending for another few years and I don't want everyone to predict what's going to happen along the way. All of those (and more) are legitimate reasons to have a character say or do something, even if not all of them apply to your personal reading experience.

[Kish]

I doubt it.
This.

I'm not going to say "no," but I'm mystified by some people's certainty. "it was probably very hard to draw and you don't make a big fortress if you don't use it"? This is not a movie and Rich does not have the set to use now; drawing it once took exactly the same amount of effort if he's planning to draw it fifty thousand more times or if he's planning to draw it zero more times.

[JennTora]

It looked more like it was edited in later. :smallbiggrin:

Nah, she was right, it was a joke.

Anyways, after thinking about what I did edit in I really could see eugene greenhilt jumping the gun and coming down and being all "rawr go attack xykon's astral fortress where he's got his soul thinggamajabber. Rawr you're dumb for not learning magic. Rawr."