[PF] Young and Giant templates

[Darius Kane]

Young (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/simple-template-young-cr-1) template reduces in size by one step. It lists -4 to Str and Con and +4 to Dex as ability score adjustments.
Giant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/simple-template-giant-cr-1) template enlarges in size by one step. It lists +4 to Str and Con and -2 to Dex.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates

The “rebuild rules” list the exact changes you make to the base stat block if you have the time to completely rebuild it—this method works best when you have time during game preparation to build full stat blocks. The two methods result in creatures of similar, if not identical, abilities.
Now, does that mean I only apply the listed adjustments to the ability scores or do I first change the size, apply everything that results from the size change including ability score adjustments, and then add the template adjustments on top?
The "quick rules" imply that it's the former, but I'd rather make sure by asking you guys.

[Jeraa]

You get exactly what the template says you get, and nothing more.

The table that lists the size changes is only used if you are advancing a monster by adding additional racial hit dice, not when applying a template.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Huh, applying the young template and then the giant template would net you LA+0, +2 dex and +3 natural armour, you would also be a big baby but whatever.

[Jeraa]

Huh, applying the young template and then the giant template would net you LA+0, +2 dex and +3 natural armour, you would also be a big baby but whatever.

It depends on what order you apply the templates in. The +2 dexterity is the same, but the natural armor differs.

Applying the Young template reduces your natural armor by -2, to a minimum of 0. Then applying the Giant template raises that by +3, for a final natural armor bonus of +3.

Applying the Giant template first (or applying both templates simultaneously) raises your natural armor by +3, then the Young template reduces that by two, for a final adjustment of +1.

But thats assuming you have no (or very little) natural armor. For creatures that already have a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher, it makes no difference what order you apply the templates. The templated creature will always have a natural armor bonus 1 point higher then normal. (start with +3 natural armor, -2 for young = +1, +3 for giant = +4 natural armor. Start with +3 natural armor, +3 for giant = +6 -2 for young = +4 natural armor.)

[supermonkeyjoe]

It depends on what order you apply the templates in. The +2 dexterity is the same, but the natural armor differs.

Applying the Young template reduces your natural armor by -2, to a minimum of 0. Then applying the Giant template raises that by +3, for a final natural armor bonus of +3.

Applying the Giant template first (or applying both templates simultaneously) raises your natural armor by +3, then the Young template reduces that by two, for a final adjustment of +1.

But thats assuming you have no (or very little) natural armor. For creatures that already have a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher, it makes no difference what order you apply the templates. The templated creature will always have a natural armor bonus 1 point higher then normal. (start with +3 natural armor, -2 for young = +1, +3 for giant = +4 natural armor. Start with +3 natural armor, +3 for giant = +6 -2 for young = +4 natural armor.)

well yes, hence why I said applying the young template and then the giant template.

I just find the idea of adventuring with an abnormally large nimble and resilient child to be extremely amusing, especially seeing as RAW he would be no less intelligent wise or charismatic than his fellow.

[CTrees]

Psst: Young+Advanced=+8Dex, +4Int, +4Wis, +4Cha, -1 size category, +0CR

Just sayin'...