Telekinetic Grapple

[willpell]

Okay, I officially give up. I've been asking several questions related to the Telekinetic Maneuver psychic power today, but I've decided that the part of it which relates to the Grapple rules doesn't require one or two answers, so much as a complete explanation of every step of how it works. Since, y'know, staring at someone and causing them to be immobilized is sort of different from physically wrestling with them. Out of the vast panoply of checks that can be made in a grapple, I simply cannot get my head around exactly how many of them apply to a telekinetic grapple and exactly how they are so applied, so I'm just going to ask if someone can just walk me through the entire grapple rules as they pertain to this power. (Ideally I'm hoping to hear how someone who plays with psionics actually did interpret these rules; failing that I'll take an on-paper answer.)

[supermonkeyjoe]

Ok so first things first, (the correct version of) telekinetic Maneuver:


Telekinetic Maneuver
Psychokinesis [Force]
Level: Psion/wilder 4
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./ level)
Target: One creature
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: Yes
Power Points: 7

You can affect a foe by concentrating your mind upon its current status and the status you desire, once per round. You can perform a bull rush, a disarm, a grapple (including a pin), or a trip. Resolve these attempts as normal, except that they don’t provoke attacks of opportunity, you use your manifester level in place of your base attack bonus (for disarm and grapple attempts), you use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Strength modifier or Dexterity modifier, and a failed attempt doesn’t allow a reactive attempt by the target (such as normally allowed on disarm or trip attempts). No save is allowed against these attempts, but power resistance applies normally.
Augment

For every 2 additional power points you spend, this power grants a +1 bonus on your checks involving bull rush, disarm, grapple, or trip attempts.

right?

so you

1.cast the spell, did you overcome Power resistance?

Yes. go to 2

No. Power fails

2. Make a touch attack (bizarrely it's technically a melee touch attack at this point but is fairly irrelevant as the modifier is Manifester Level+ INT+ any other bonuses or penalties you would have to melee attacks)
Did you hit their touch AC?

Yes. go to 3

No, retry 2 next round

3. make a grapple check, this is Manifester Level+ INT+ size modifier for grapples
Did you beat their grapple check.

Yes. go to 4

No, retry 2 next round

4. RAW as per the grapple rules you have to move into your opponents space to maintain the grapple which is pretty stupid, if you don't they are automatically released at the end of the round

from here on it's grapple rules as normal.

You can continue making grapple attempts, or any of the other Telekinetic Maneuver (only against the initial target) until the power expires (1 rd/lvl duration) or you stop concentrating on the power

(Edited so I'm actually talking about the right thing)

[Norin]

This was about psionics, not arcane magic, right?

[supermonkeyjoe]

This was about psionics, not arcane magic, right?

Ahhh dammit, that'll teach me not to read properly, editing the post.

[willpell]

Ok so first things first, (the correct version of) telekinetic Maneuver

As far as I can tell the only change from the printed version is to double the cost of augmentation, correct?


1.cast the spell, did you overcome Power resistance?

Right, got that part.


2. Make a touch attack (bizarrely it's technically a melee touch attack at this point but is fairly irrelevant as the modifier is Manifester Level+ INT+ any other bonuses or penalties you would have to melee attacks)

I was unclear on whether that part was required.


4. RAW as per the grapple rules you have to move into your opponents space to maintain the grapple which is pretty stupid, if you don't they are automatically released at the end of the round

This part I understood far enough to see that it was a fairly obvious case of RAW not sufficing, so I'm houseruling it away. The way I figure it, your power rather than you yourself is what grapples the target, and you've manifested your power in the target's space.


from here on it's grapple rules as normal.

Not a helpful answer, because the grapple rules don't really apply to the situation and I can't figure out what to do about that (unlike with the move-into-target's-space proviso which is easily enough fixed).

Here is a copypaste of the Grapple rules (from d20srd; it may be missing some fluff text from the printed book which would have been helpful) with my concerns inserted as they come up.



Grapple Checks
Starting a Grapple
Step 1 - Attack of Opportunity.
Step 2 - Grab.
Step 3 - Hold.
Step 4 - Maintain Grapple.

All of this is clear enough to me past the issues I've already noted. The difficulties begin hereater.


Grappling Consequences
While you’re grappling, your ability to attack others and defend yourself is limited.

No Threatened Squares
You don’t threaten any squares while grappling.

No Dexterity Bonus
You lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if you have one) against opponents you aren’t grappling. (You can still use it against opponents you are grappling.)

No Movement
You can’t move normally while grappling. You may, however, make an opposed grapple check to move while grappling.

If You’re Grappling
When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.

Activate a Magic Item
You can activate a magic item, as long as the item doesn’t require spell completion activation. You don’t need to make a grapple check to activate the item.

Attack Your Opponent
You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a -4 penalty on such attacks.

You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons.

Cast a Spell
You can attempt to cast a spell while grappling or even while pinned (see below), provided its casting time is no more than 1 standard action, it has no somatic component, and you have in hand any material components or focuses you might need. Any spell that requires precise and careful action is impossible to cast while grappling or being pinned. If the spell is one that you can cast while grappling, you must make a Concentration check (DC 20 + spell level) or lose the spell. You don’t have to make a successful grapple check to cast the spell.

Damage Your Opponent
While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike (1d3 points for Medium attackers or 1d2 points for Small attackers, plus Strength modifiers). If you want to deal lethal damage, you take a -4 penalty on your grapple check.

Exception: Monks deal more damage on an unarmed strike than other characters, and the damage is lethal. However, they can choose to deal their damage as nonlethal damage when grappling without taking the usual -4 penalty for changing lethal damage to nonlethal damage.

Draw a Light Weapon
You can draw a light weapon as a move action with a successful grapple check.

Since you're grappling with your mind rather than your body, I am extremely unclear on whether you should suffer any of the restrictions that normally apply to one who is grappling. The part under Grappling Consequences makes a little bit of sense, since you're concentrating on the grapple, so I could see saying that you aren't paying attention to your surroundings and thus can't make AoOs or use your Dex bonus. But if you have your psicrystal concentrate for you via Solicit Psicrystal, or otherwise avoid the need to use your only standard action each round concentrating, then I don't see why you'd suffer grapple-related restrictions to your attacks, because you're not physically in the grapple.


Escape from Grapple
You can escape a grapple by winning an opposed grapple check in place of making an attack. You can make an Escape Artist check in place of your grapple check if you so desire, but this requires a standard action. If more than one opponent is grappling you, your grapple check result has to beat all their individual check results to escape. (Opponents don’t have to try to hold you if they don’t want to.) If you escape, you finish the action by moving into any space adjacent to your opponent(s).

This is the part where I really start getting confused. Your opponent can make a grapple check to escape your grapple? But your grapple only exists when it's you're turn; the next turn you might grapple again, but you might bull rush or trip or disarm instead, and even if you don't, it's not clear that you continue grappling your opponent all through the subsequent round.


Move
You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This requires a standard action, and you must beat all the other individual check results to move the grapple.

This part I'm assuming to be a glitch, since again you're not physically in the grapple; any actions you aren't using to concentrate ought to be usable for move actions as normal, unless your DM rules that you can't take your attention off the power that much, but in either case winning a grapple check should have nothing to do with your ability to move when the person you're grappling isn't grappling you, but rather a telekinetic force you've generated from afar.


Pin Your Opponent
You can hold your opponent immobile for 1 round by winning an opposed grapple check (made in place of an attack). Once you have an opponent pinned, you have a few options available to you (see below).

The text of TK Maneuver specifically says that choosing "grapple" for a round "includes a pin", though it doesn't clarify whether that means you automatically get to pin without having to win the previous grapple checks, or whether pin remains an option which you can choose or not choose, or if you automatically get to pin even if you choose one of the other options, or what.


Break Another’s Pin
If you are grappling an opponent who has another character pinned, you can make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you break the hold that the opponent has over the other character. The character is still grappling, but is no longer pinned.

Again, I don't get this part because your body isn't grappling.


Use Opponent’s Weapon
If your opponent is holding a light weapon, you can use it to attack him. Make an opposed grapple check (in place of an attack). If you win, make an attack roll with the weapon with a -4 penalty (doing this doesn’t require another action).

You don’t gain possession of the weapon by performing this action.

If You’re Pinning an Opponent
You can attempt to damage your opponent with an opposed grapple check, you can attempt to use your opponent’s weapon against him, or you can attempt to move the grapple (all described above). At your option, you can prevent a pinned opponent from speaking.

By this time I was too confused to even process what the text was saying the first time I tried to read it, and I'm still not sure.