Sneak Attack Ninja Type Character: Advice Needed

[wayfare]

Hey All:

A friend is trying to build a character that is a master assassin (rogue) who kills with pressure points and nerve pinches. The questiob he out to the table: can he make "touch sneak attacks" by simply touching a charcter and applying sneak attack damage. We are working out of the srd, so any adivce on how we could make this work with other books is appreciated.

Many thanks!

[Snowbluff]

Sandstorm, page 170, Marrulurk. Eas source of death attack, plus sneak attack and full BaB.

You can sneak attack with Touch Spells. Dread Necro has Charnel Touch at will, plus plenty of touch spells.

[Kerilstrasz]

lets see.. i suppose you want smthing like Xena's move... so he will do that
with his finger tips..
unfortunately that considered unarmed strike and its subdual,thus no SA...
2 things come to mind... either gauntlets (but i suppose you don't want that
due to RP reasons) or 1lvl monk dip to treat his US lethal ,thus apply SA...
what your DM opinion about what you think? maybe you need just high AB and
call shot... and why sneak attack? i d rule to roll a heal check instead of dmg
to get the effect you like according to certain DCs... anyways...

[wayfare]

I think he just wants to do SA as a touch attack, and is building a ninja themed character around it. The idea is that he will come up unarmed, touch a person, and they will die.

He has to do lethal damage, to activate sneak attack, so I was thinking -- are there any gloves that allow you to inflict damage with a touch attack? Something like those bracers you can meld in incarnum?

[Artillery]

Wraithstrike is a spell from Complete Adventurer that is cast as a swift action and makes all of your melee attacks into melee touch attacks for that round.

A wand of Wraithstrike is 4500GP.

According to pricing guidelines a continuous or use activated wondrous item that gives Wraithstrike at 12000GP.
Depending on interpretation this will be either useless, if it doesn't state the action it takes to activate it is a standard action, Wraithstrike lasts one round.

If you use the spells Swift Action activation is is very good, and underpriced at 12000GP.

If instead these were made into a 10/day free action activation, like the Boots of Speed. 12000GP is in the range for something that good.

Wraithstrike is very powerful so some DMs ban it.

If that is the case you could do a 2 level dip into swordsage after ECL 10. You can get Emerald Razor which lets you make a single melee attack as a melee touch attack that round. You can get Stance of the Assassin on your second level of swordsage to get +2d6 sneak attack dmg.

Shadow Sun Ninja 1 gets Touch of the Shadow Sun. It lets you do a melee touch attack as a standard action; you can also heal a willing ally the dmg you did the following round as a swift action. You can only use it every other round.

[Snowbluff]

I think he just wants to do SA as a touch attack, and is building a ninja themed character around it. The idea is that he will come up unarmed, touch a person, and they will die.

He has to do lethal damage, to activate sneak attack, so I was thinking -- are there any gloves that allow you to inflict damage with a touch attack? Something like those bracers you can meld in incarnum?

Items... not anything you want to pay money for.

Like I said, dip into Dread Necro once. At will Charnel Touch. Should work on anything you can sneak attack. Warlock will let him do that at a range.

Or just take a feat to pick up the soulmeld that deals melee touch attacks.

[limejuicepowder]

Wraithstrike comes to mind, though it's a second level spell and fluff-wise doesn't exactly match.

Emerald Razor is a lot better. It's a second level maneuver from ToB that allows a single standard action attack as a touch attack. Easy to get, and matches the fluff quite well. Note that the target will still have to be flat-footed.

edit: swordsaged

[Urpriest]

Items... not anything you want to pay money for.

Like I said, dip into Dread Necro once. At will Charnel Touch. Should work on anything you can sneak attack. Warlock will let him do that at a range.

Or just take a feat to pick up the soulmeld that deals melee touch attacks.

Dread Necro is a bit tricky here, since it's a Standard action to use and eventually he'll want to full attack.

[Bakkan]

Note that it is possible to Sneak Attack with nonlethal damage. In fact, this is made explicit in the Rogue class description:



With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty.


Note that this rule is technically silent about what happens with nonlethal weapons other than the sap or unarmed strike (such as a merciful longsword). However I think few DMs would do anything other than extend this rule to all weapons that would deal nonlethal damage when used normally.

If you're using the Rules Compedium, we have this information:


An attacker can deal precision damage with any weapon he can wield....

While not relevant, the following text from the Spell Results section on page 136 of the same book gives us a precedent for how to handle sneak attack with nonlethal weapons, supporting the precedent from the sap and unarmed strike:


Any weaponlike spell that can be used with presion damage, such as seak attack, follows the normal rules for precision damage with a few alterations....A successful precision damage attack with a weaponlike spell deals extra damage of the same type as the spell normally deals unless that spell deals ability damage or ability drain, or it bestows negative levels.

[Snowbluff]

Dread Necro is a bit tricky here, since it's a Standard action to use and eventually he'll want to full attack.

Hmm... then how about Pyrokineticist or Glaivelock? No... probably not touchy enough.

[Urpriest]

Hmm... then how about Pyrokineticist or Glaivelock? No... probably not touchy enough.

I've heard people argue that Stormguard Warrior works, but I'm not sure on the legality myself.

[wayfare]

I think Dread Necro is the Best bet, as the negative energy damage is pretty related to the concept. Then again, i remember a discussion on how, techincally, the Dread Necro doesn't inflict negative energy damage, but a sort of damage that functions like negative energy damage.

Something about it not being specifically stated in the power text...

It seemed weak to me...does anybody know what I am talking about?

[Cravix]

from SRD

Improved Unarmed Strike [General]

Benefit

You are considered to be armed even when unarmed —that is, you do not provoke attacks or opportunity from armed opponents when you attack them while unarmed. However, you still get an attack of opportunity against any opponent who makes an unarmed attack on you.

In addition, your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your option.
Normal

Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike, and you can deal only nonlethal damage with such an attack.
Special

A monk automatically gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat at 1st level. She need not select it.

A fighter may select Improved Unarmed Strike as one of his fighter bonus feats.

[TuggyNE]

An ordinary touch doesn't do any damage at all, non-lethal or otherwise, which is why you can't apply sneak attack to it. (IUS does not affect this.)

[Unusual Muse]

Instead of dipping Monk, consider dipping Barbarian for more HP, Rage (or Whilrling Frenzy), and the City Brawler ACF that gets you Improved Unarmed Strike and Unarmed Two-Weapon Fighting. You could also get Pounce in there with Lion Spirit Totem. That's way more bang for buck than a 1-level Monk dip.

More importantly, though, you need to give some thought to how you're going to trigger sneak attack. Are you going to rely on teamwork and focus on Flanking, or are you going to try to go solo and focus on something like Improved Feint (which I don't recommend; works better in theory than in practice, because you lose a lot in action economy). Either way, you're going to need to choose your feats wisely and plan carefully.

[wayfare]

Instead of dipping Monk, consider dipping Barbarian for more HP, Rage (or Whilrling Frenzy), and the City Brawler ACF that gets you Improved Unarmed Strike and Unarmed Two-Weapon Fighting. You could also get Pounce in there with Lion Spirit Totem. That's way more bang for buck than a 1-level Monk dip.

More importantly, though, you need to give some thought to how you're going to trigger sneak attack. Are you going to rely on teamwork and focus on Flanking, or are you going to try to go solo and focus on something like Improved Feint (which I don't recommend; works better in theory than in practice, because you lose a lot in action economy). Either way, you're going to need to choose your feats wisely and plan carefully.

...None of those actually work at all with the concept, unless I am missing something?

Are there any feats of rogue prestige classes that make it easier to inflict the flat-footed condition? Outside of the extremely difficult to manage feint maneuver, I mean.

At this point, the idea is that this character is an assassin who is also a healer, and uses his sublime knowledge of anatomy and energy-flows to slay his targets with a single touch. He typically relies on stealth to sneak attack, but more often on outright deception. So he sneaks into a camp, taps a guy on his shoulder, and inflicts his vulcan nerve pinch of doom, takes the guys place on watch, moves on to the next target.

[The Glyphstone]

Killer and Healer, hm?

I think we may have found the first concept ever where the Shadow Sun Ninja PrC is actually a good fit, for a 1-level dip at least. It lets you make a standard-action melee touch that deals damage equal to your unarmed strike, made of negative energy. Then you can heal yourself for the damage you just dealt.

[Psyren]

Just touching won't work - you need an at-will touch attack of some kind. This can then be a rider for your sneak attack.

Incarnum is an easy way - a single feat will get you Lightning Gauntlets. You could even fluff the electricity as the jolt the target gets from the nerve pinch. If you'd rather deal untyped damage however, you can use Necrocarnum Touch instead but shaping that will cost you another feat.

[wayfare]

Killer and Healer, hm?

I think we may have found the first concept ever where the Shadow Sun Ninja PrC is actually a good fit, for a 1-level dip at least. It lets you make a standard-action melee touch that deals damage equal to your unarmed strike, made of negative energy. Then you can heal yourself for the damage you just dealt.

Interesting! What book should we take a look at to find that PrC?

[Snowbluff]

Interesting! What book should we take a look at to find that PrC?

Tome of Battle, brother! You need Swordsage, but a two level dip after 3 rogue levels will let you take Assassin's stance for 2d6 SA.

[Artillery]

Tome of Battle, brother! You need Swordsage, but a two level dip after 3 rogue levels will let you take Assassin's stance for 2d6 SA.

You didn't even have the decency to swordsage

...
If that is the case you could do a 2 level dip into swordsage after ECL 10. You can get Emerald Razor which lets you make a single melee attack as a melee touch attack that round. You can get Stance of the Assassin on your second level of swordsage to get +2d6 sneak attack dmg.

Shadow Sun Ninja 1 gets Touch of the Shadow Sun. It lets you do a melee touch attack as a standard action; you can also heal a willing ally the dmg you did the following round as a swift action. You can only use it every other round.

Rogue 3, Unarmed Swordsage 2, Shadow Sun Ninja x, then more Rogue. That will get you 4d6 Sneak attack at lvl 5, at lvl 6 you can do a melee touch attack that will do unarmed dmg + wis + 4d6 when flanking or opponent is flat-footed.

[Tokuhara]

As another option, Wizard's released an online class: the OA Ninja.

[wayfare]

@Tokuhara: Do you have a link?

Thanks for the help, everyone! The player likes both the incarnum option and the dread necromancer. One question: does anybody think there are any elemental damage substitution feats that would allow the player to change the damage type inflicted by Lightning Gauntlets?

[Tokuhara]

@Tokuhara: Do you have a link?

Thanks for the help, everyone! The player likes both the incarnum option and the dread necromancer. One question: does anybody think there are any elemental damage substitution feats that would allow the player to change the damage type inflicted by Lightning Gauntlets?

I cannot find it off-hand (my Google-fu is weak), but I have it on PDF. Granted, it's the 3.0 version, but it is in the Rokugan book from 2001 printed with WotC's permission.