Advice on character choice?

[Fates]

I'm currently in a campaign in which my swordsage turned out to be too powerful for the rest of the party, after having, at level 6, killed a 17th-level boss who was supposed to have kidnapped us all in some fantasy world. The majority of the party is low-to-mid op.

I've been having difficulty choosing what kind of character to play now. We are all level seven at the moment.

Here is the rest of the group currently:

Elf Ranger (focused on archery)

Half-Drow Ranger/Assassin (Focused on TWF and stealth)

Dwarf Defender (Homebrewed class. Think knight, but slightly more powerful. Very good tank, but doesn't do any considerable damage)

Human Healer

Centaur (Homebrewed again) Sorcerer. Good damage-dealer, but generally chooses spells based on wackiness rather than power (IE Engulfing terror, which summons an uncontrolled gelatinous cube) Somewhat chaotic stupid

Elf Dread Necromancer- Focuses on (you guessed it) necromancy. Has a boatload of undead minions at the moment, as the DM made Animate Dead a 3rd-level spell for him (makes sense to me- why should clerics get the spell three levels before dreadnecs?).


Which leaves me. Originally, my swordsage served the role of frontline damage dealer, but was also very good at stealth, and ranged combat as well, due to homebrew disciplines such as Falling Star. Because I'm trying to play a character who is on the same power level as the rest of my party, here are my ideas.

-Human Wild Shape Ranger/Master of Many Forms, who, obviously, focuses on transforming to do most stuff.

-Human Barbarian/Fist of the Forest/Bear Warrior, with high charisma and a focus on intimidate

-Halfling Spellthief. There are a lot of spellcasters in this world, including three in the party, and I could also function well as a rogue-type.

-Grey Elf Psion (metabolist). Aside from the weak race choice, I'm worried it might be too powerful again. Plus, nobody in the group has even done psionics.

-Elf or Human Hexblade, just because I've always wanted to play a hexblade and I know it wouldn't be game-breaking.


So, which of these do you think is the best idea? Any other ideas? Keep in mind, the world does not have any Paladins, Druids, Clerics, or Wizards, and the DM and I agree that I shouldn't play another ToB character.

[Fyermind]

I'd take the opportunity to go for some debuffing with a hexblade using curse and stacking fear effects maybe going blackguard for Cha to saves. Everybody likes it when monsters are easier to beat, and you don't be stealing the spotlight for yourself.

[Talionis]

I would suggest for you to find a character so bad that as you optimize it, you only get up to the power level of your comrades. I think you love to optimize, most of us here are very guilty of that. My solution has been to play terribly weak classes and try my best to make them playable. Often this means, I am the guy that buys all the stupid alchemical things.

Human Wild Shape Ranger/Master of Many Forms, who, obviously, focuses on transforming to do most stuff. I think you are an optimizer and that you'll be able to abuse this. That's not a bad thing, but this could also get out of hand.

-Human Barbarian/Fist of the Forest/Bear Warrior, with high charisma and a focus on intimidate I think you'll be bored.

-Halfling Spellthief. There are a lot of spellcasters in this world, including two in the party, and I could also function well as a rogue-type. I think this is a great choice. You debuff, you get to play differently depending on the spells you take from people. It sounds like a campaign where Spellthief wouldn't be dead. Optimizing Spellthief so long as you don't add a more powerful spellcasting class should put you at a strong, but not overpowering position. You won't be a frontline fighter, but you will be able to deal decent damage and combo with your tank well.

-Grey Elf Psion (metabolist). Aside from the weak race choice, I'm worried it might be too powerful again. Plus, nobody in the group has even done psionics. I think you are right to be worried. Psions aren't much weaker than Wizards and can do bonkers things. I think you will have a hard time self nerfing.

-Elf or Human Hexblade, just because I've always wanted to play a hexblade and I know it wouldn't be game-breaking. This is the other one that I'd highly suggest. Hexblade is so weak that its hard to optimize it past the other characters. In fact, it will need optimizing to feel like it is doing something. So that will be a good challenge for you. Debuffing makes your whole team stronger, so I highly suggest it. I find Hexblades to be resource starved and a great idea, but without enough Hex attempts to reliably do what they are supposed to do. Your game seems comfortable with Homebrew, I'd look into Homebrew Hexblade changes. I believe that the writer from the Hexblade book had a suggestion for some slight upgrades that seemed acceptable without drastically increasing the powerlevel of Hexblade.

[Darth Stabber]

Elan ranger2/psion(egoist)5/slayerX: pretty good frontline gish. You can alter the levels up a bit (or ignore ranger entirely by taking track and getting after psion8), since the requirements are dead simple (1pp, track, bab+4, know:dungeoneering 4ranks). I say egoist simply because it is the gishiest discipline, you could swap in another easily, though you lose easy access to a few very nice powers. Wilder6 or ranger1/wilder4 works, but not having disciple specific powers hurts a bit.

Barbarian4/totemist2/totem ragerX: normally I would just suggest totemist, but totem rager is a ton of fun, and given the groups low optimization, the slightly reduced raw power actually works for you.

Rogue/swashbuckler with daring outlaw: I'd only pick this up for certain groups, but this is another build that is a ton of fun, if weaker than some other things you could be doing.

[BowStreetRunner]

I would play the hexblade. It can be a fun class in low op games, and you probably won't get very many chances to play something like this.

[Fates]

I would suggest for you to find a character so bad that as you optimize it, you only get up to the power level of your comrades. I think you love to optimize, most of us here are very guilty of that. My solution has been to play terribly weak classes and try my best to make them playable. Often this means, I am the guy that buys all the stupid alchemical things.

Human Wild Shape Ranger/Master of Many Forms, who, obviously, focuses on transforming to do most stuff. I think you are an optimizer and that you'll be able to abuse this. That's not a bad thing, but this could also get out of hand.

-Human Barbarian/Fist of the Forest/Bear Warrior, with high charisma and a focus on intimidate I think you'll be bored.

-Halfling Spellthief. There are a lot of spellcasters in this world, including two in the party, and I could also function well as a rogue-type. I think this is a great choice. You debuff, you get to play differently depending on the spells you take from people. It sounds like a campaign where Spellthief wouldn't be dead. Optimizing Spellthief so long as you don't add a more powerful spellcasting class should put you at a strong, but not overpowering position. You won't be a frontline fighter, but you will be able to deal decent damage and combo with your tank well.

-Grey Elf Psion (metabolist). Aside from the weak race choice, I'm worried it might be too powerful again. Plus, nobody in the group has even done psionics. I think you are right to be worried. Psions aren't much weaker than Wizards and can do bonkers things. I think you will have a hard time self nerfing.

-Elf or Human Hexblade, just because I've always wanted to play a hexblade and I know it wouldn't be game-breaking. This is the other one that I'd highly suggest. Hexblade is so weak that its hard to optimize it past the other characters. In fact, it will need optimizing to feel like it is doing something. So that will be a good challenge for you. Debuffing makes your whole team stronger, so I highly suggest it. I find Hexblades to be resource starved and a great idea, but without enough Hex attempts to reliably do what they are supposed to do. Your game seems comfortable with Homebrew, I'd look into Homebrew Hexblade changes. I believe that the writer from the Hexblade book had a suggestion for some slight upgrades that seemed acceptable without drastically increasing the powerlevel of Hexblade.


You're very perceptive! I don't suppose I could borrow that periapt of wisdom when you're done with it? :smallbiggrin:

I agree, though. I am a big optimizer, and I think that having fun with a low-tier class would be my best bet of not overshadowing the rest of the party. I've always wanted to try playing around with wild shape, but I do know that I would most likely end up abusing it, and we've already got two rangers anyway, and a barbarian never really has enough tricks up his sleeves to make a really interesting character. I've played a spellthief once before, but it was only for a single session, and I'd like to try it again. Being a hexblade would also be fun, and our party doesn't really have any debuffers.

[Phelix-Mu]

Hexblades can also be cool with their familiar, who stands to have a rather large number of hp. If you don't exchange it for that flanking phantom ACF (can't remember the source), then it can be quite useful, and you don't have to worry so much about it getting one-shotted.

I also seem to remember a series of feats somewhere for having multiple familiars. Some kind of misanthropic, anti-social hexblade with a couple intelligent animal buddies might be cool flavor. Not particularly high op, but I'm not completely familiar with how well hexblade spell list dovetails with using a more powerful familiar.

I'd vote for hexblade.

[Fates]

Hexblades can also be cool with their familiar, who stands to have a rather large number of hp. If you don't exchange it for that flanking phantom ACF (can't remember the source), then it can be quite useful, and you don't have to worry so much about it getting one-shotted.

I also seem to remember a series of feats somewhere for having multiple familiars. Some kind of misanthropic, anti-social hexblade with a couple intelligent animal buddies might be cool flavor. Not particularly high op, but I'm not completely familiar with how well hexblade spell list dovetails with using a more powerful familiar.

I'd vote for hexblade.

I think I've decided on hexblade. I could always take the flanking phantom variant and then take the obtain familiar feat.

[Darrin]

I think I've decided on hexblade. I could always take the flanking phantom variant and then take the obtain familiar feat.

Dark Companion ACF. Yes, take it. Pairs up nicely with the Aura of Despair from the Paladin of Tyrrany (Unearthed Arcana). Add Dirgesinger bard for the debuffer trifecta. Take Obtain Familiar, maybe Improved Familiar, and check the Hexblade Handbook for a good one (I seem to recall winter wolf was decent). You can even add Wild Cohort if need be.

[Fates]

Dark Companion ACF. Yes, take it. Pairs up nicely with the Aura of Despair from the Paladin of Tyrrany (Unearthed Arcana). Add Dirgesinger bard for the debuffer trifecta. Take Obtain Familiar, maybe Improved Familiar, and check the Hexblade Handbook for a good one (I seem to recall winter wolf was decent). You can even add Wild Cohort if need be.

Yeah, I looked into the handbook earlier today. I took the dark companion, and then obtain/improved familiar, choosing an ooze mephit for my familiar, as it also works well as a debuffer and fits well with the campaign (which takes place mostly in swampland). I just went for single-classed hexblade for these first seven levels, but I'll probably switch to blackguard or PoT for the next two levels.