If a character has magic full plate and a locked gauntlet...

[Turok117]

...is the locked gauntlet entitled to a saving throw vs the spell 'Shatter'?

I ask because we fought an evil half-dragon cleric that handed our asses to us (and subsequently escaped), and now if we fight him again I intend to play a bit smarter.

My 6th level dungeoncrasher fighter cohort could have tried tripping/disarming but I forgot to do that since I'm an idiot. Next time we fight this cleric, I'm thinking of using my fighter to attempt a disarm or a trip (the cleric uses a greatsword) and this is where my question comes in. If the cleric has a locked gauntlet then I may as well forget disarming and go for tripping each time instead. However, if I can cast shatter on the locked gauntlet then I can give my fighter cohort a decent shot at disarming the cleric. Meanwhile I'll be nearby (I'm a cleric also) and attempting to chew through the evil guy's buffstack with a dispel magic or two.

Party:
Sorceror8
Dragon Shaman (silver)8
Rogue6/Wizard2
Cleric6/Radiant Warrior of pelor2 (DM made this class with me in mind, bigger hit die, 7/10 casting)
My cohort, Dungeoncrasher fighter 6

We're not an optimised group, and because of that our DM doesn't have to engage with an arms race with us, and no, I have not gone DMM Persist route because it's OP as ****.

[Xervous]

Looking in the spell description, it says that "objects" get a saving throw, so regardless of whether it is attended or not, it is getting a saving throw. However, if it is being held/used by someone, it uses their saves instead of its own, which presents a problem as a buffstacked cleric is likely to have high saves.

[Morcleon]

The gauntlet is unaffected by shatter, as it is a magical item (part of the armor). If you could target dispel his armor, you could then have 1d4 rounds to shatter the gauntlet, as it has been turned nonmagical for the duration.

Of course, if the sword isn't magical, you could just shatter it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html). :smallwink:

[Slipperychicken]

If it's equipped to him, it gets a save. But since it's a Cleric you're fighting, I think you'll be a lot better off targeting/stealing his holy symbol, since he needs that to cast spells.

[supermonkeyjoe]

I would lean towards no because a locked gauntlet is priced as a separate item for a flat 8 gp and not a +Xgp like armour spikes, also nowhere does it say you can craft masterwork plate with a locked gauntlet included. The only exception would be is if the magic armour was a specific set that stated it came with a locked gauntlet, I can't think of any off-hand but there may be some.

Edit: just reread the question, yes it would get a saving throw but it would not necessarily be immune due to being a magic item.

[Xervous]

Just a wild morning guess here...

Gauntlets "come" with armor, meaning you get them when you purchase the armor, however it appears (to me) that they are not part of the armor. Other various things seem to suggest this (gauntlets of X magic items being separate from armor). Gauntlets also have entries as weapons in the PHB, so that seals it for me.

If the gauntlet itself ain't magical, blast away.

[Morcleon]

I would lean towards no because a locked gauntlet is priced as a separate item for a flat 8 gp and not a +Xgp like armour spikes, also nowhere does it say you can craft masterwork plate with a locked gauntlet included. The only exception would be is if the magic armour was a specific set that stated it came with a locked gauntlet, I can't think of any off-hand but there may be some.

Edit: just reread the question, yes it would get a saving throw but it would not necessarily be immune due to being a magic item.

I believe it was priced that way due to armor spikes being relatively useless without the armor, whereas you could just buy a locked gauntlet. As the cleric is wearing full plate, the gauntlet is counted as part of the armor itself.


...Otherwise, the locked gauntlet replaces a gauntlet you already have as part of the armor.

[Turok117]

Thanks for all the replies. So the general consensus is that the gauntlets do get a saving throw, and a will save at that. So I'll have to look for an alternative way to kill him.

When we fought him the first time:
Him, a barbarian and ~20 orks are on the other side of a 400ft field. Sorceror fireballs for about 5 consecutive rounds, killing almost all of the orks and wounding the barb. My cohort kills the barb when he reaches us and the rest of orks soon go down to fireballs.

However, after the first fireball lands the cleric casts invisibility (meaning he must have the trickery domain) and then re-appears next to us after a few rounds. He must have spent the whole time buffing because he had at least a +25 to hit and was dealing more than 20 damage with each attack, with two attacks per turn.

Our sorc has only taken blasting spells, but now he has enervation so he can debuff next time we fight the cleric, with scorching rays/lightning bolts to help

Tripping has been very effective in the times that I have used it in the past, so my fighter will get an enlarge person from me and go for the trip. He'll have +13 on the strength check, whilst I'm guessing the cleric will have about +6 or +7. Should have a decent shot at this.

[Morcleon]

Thanks for all the replies. So the general consensus is that the gauntlets do get a saving throw, and a will save at that. So I'll have to look for an alternative way to kill him.

When we fought him the first time:
Him, a barbarian and ~20 orks are on the other side of a 400ft field. Sorceror fireballs for about 5 consecutive rounds, killing almost all of the orks and wounding the barb. My cohort kills the barb when he reaches us and the rest of orks soon go down to fireballs.

However, after the first fireball lands the cleric casts invisibility (meaning he must have the trickery domain) and then re-appears next to us after a few rounds. He must have spent the whole time buffing because he had at least a +25 to hit and was dealing more than 20 damage with each attack, with two attacks per turn.

Our sorc has only taken blasting spells, but now he has enervation so he can debuff next time we fight the cleric.

Have your sorcerer pick up a scroll of see invisibility. Enervation is useless if you don't know where to shoot. Also, start with a few dispels to take out any buffs he has.

[Turok117]

Have your sorcerer pick up a scroll of see invisibility. Enervation is useless if you don't know where to shoot. Also, start with a few dispels to take out any buffs he has.

We're about to fight a white dragon, if all goes to plan then we'll have plenty of loot to spend :) We were looking at getting a few scout's headbands which seem AWESOME for price, and I was considering a third eye clarity for myself as well.

[Xervous]

the sorcerer doesn't have glitterdust :( shame.

The cleric could have gotten invisibility through other means, like Anyspell or the Magic domain (which lets clerics use wizard wands).

Reach weapons will give the cleric a headache, just stay 10 ft from him (1 square between you and him) and take a poke at him every time he steps up, then five foot back on your turn and poke him some more. The fighter should also be tripping, so the cleric won't end up going anywhere fast.

There's also some 2nd level spell for Sorc/Wiz that is somewhat superior to dispel magic for targeted dispels, but with minmaxboards down I have no way to remind myself of its name :(

[Slipperychicken]

There's also some 2nd level spell for Sorc/Wiz that is somewhat superior to dispel magic for targeted dispels, but with minmaxboards down I have no way to remind myself of its name :(

Arcane Turmoil from Complete Mage. Sorc/wiz 2, Single target Dispel Magic plus Will save or lose a (randomly determined) highest-level spell slot.

[Turok117]

the sorcerer doesn't have glitterdust :( shame.

The cleric could have gotten invisibility through other means, like Anyspell or the Magic domain (which lets clerics use wizard wands).

Reach weapons will give the cleric a headache, just stay 10 ft from him (1 square between you and him) and take a poke at him every time he steps up, then five foot back on your turn and poke him some more. The fighter should also be tripping, so the cleric won't end up going anywhere fast.

There's also some 2nd level spell for Sorc/Wiz that is somewhat superior to dispel magic for targeted dispels, but with minmaxboards down I have no way to remind myself of its name :(

The rogue/wizard has glitterdust though!

The cleric did cast invisibility twice (the second time he escaped, I was knocked unconscious so couldn't dispel/sound burst stun him.

We have since invested in wands of cure light wounds and hope to get scout's headbands.

We're a VERY melee orientated party, ranged is a weak point for us unfortunately. The sorceror's scorching rays/enervation will help with that though.

Is the spell on here?
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Sorcerer/Wizard_Spell_List

[Turok117]

Wait, so if my fighter has a reach weapon he can five foot step away from the cleric and make an attack/trip/whatever.

1 - Do people take a -4 to hit if they shoot at the cleric if the cleric has one square between him and the fighter?

2 - On the cleric's turn, if he five-foot steps to the fighter, will he be unable to make a full attack and instead be resigned to using only one attack?

[Morcleon]

Wait, so if my fighter has a reach weapon he can five foot step away from the cleric and make an attack/trip/whatever.

1 - Do people take a -4 to hit if they shoot at the cleric if the cleric has one square between him and the fighter?

2 - On the cleric's turn, if he five-foot steps to the fighter, will he be unable to make a full attack and instead be resigned to using only one attack?

1. No. The cleric and fighter are now 10' away from each other, so no one takes the -4 penalty.

2. No. He can still make a full attack if all he takes is a 5' step.

[Turok117]

Ah, I see. Might combine a reach weapon with enlarge person, I guess the fighter would have a reach of 15 feet so could stay out of range of a five-foot step.

Is there any reasonable way I can boost the DC's to my spells?

[Morcleon]

Ah, I see. Might combine a reach weapon with enlarge person, I guess the fighter would have a reach of 15 feet so could stay out of range of a five-foot step.

Is there any reasonable way I can boost the DC's to my spells?

With enlarge person, he can now strike enemies 15' and 20' away, but not those at 10' and 5'.

Get stat boosters. A partially charged wand of whatever your casting stat boost is may help. There's also Heighten Spell+Earth Spell. Save DCs are generally rather difficult to boost.