Help turning a concept into a character (3.5).

[molten_dragon]

I'm going to start running a pirate campaign soon. As a group, we decided this was going to be a relatively high-powered campaign. I've got people starting to think about what kinds of characters they want to play, and one of my players e-mailed me asking about their character. He's got a concept in mind, and suggested a couple of classes that he liked that fit it. One is the expert generic class from unearthed arcana, and the other is a homebrewed expert class that's aimed at PCs.

I'm willing to let him use them if that's what he has his heart set on, but neither would be my first choice. One is homebrew, one is designed for a whole variant class system (and I have no idea how it will fit in with standard classes) and both seem a bit underpowered.

So I'm trying to suggest some things to him that fit his concept but are a little more powerful and flexible and are 'normal' classes or prestige classes.

Here is the concept he sent me:


I wanted to make a ship builder that could repair,build,modify a ship as well as wield a swivel cannon. He would be a demolitions expert and I could take any feats that could make this possible.

Off the top of my head, the 3 things I thought of first were bard, factotum, and artificer. Any other ideas?

[BRC]

Lets look at this here character.
Shipbuilder: Easy enough. He just needs either ranks in Craft (Ship), or Profession (Shipwright). It's difficult to be a one-man repair crew, but it's easy enough to hire some 1st level experts willing to do what he says.
Wielding a Swivel Cannon: now this one is tricky, and depends on how you are stating a Swivel Cannon. The best option that comes to my mind is a Great Crossbow from Races of Stone, re fluffed and perhaps given a homebrew boost in damage (We did this for one game, with Guns as Crossbows+one size category more damage. My character wielded a great crossbow refluffed as "Brittannia's Finest Gun", funtimes) If he's supposed to be setting it up everwhere, there is always the old "Ballista in a Bag of Holding" trick.

Demolitions Expert: Now here comes the tricky part. There are not really any classes I can think of that really scream "Demolitions". Refluffed Beads of Fireball are always fun, but basing a class off of buying consumable items gets expensive fast, and besides taking the Grenedier feat for a measly +2 damage with grenade like weapons, there isn't really any way to specialize in explosives.

One thing you might look into is porting the Alchemist class over from Pathfinder. or at least stealing it's Bomb mechanics.

[molten_dragon]

Wielding a Swivel Cannon: now this one is tricky, and depends on how you are stating a Swivel Cannon. The best option that comes to my mind is a Great Crossbow from Races of Stone, re fluffed and perhaps given a homebrew boost in damage (We did this for one game, with Guns as Crossbows+one size category more damage. My character wielded a great crossbow refluffed as "Brittannia's Finest Gun", funtimes) If he's supposed to be setting it up everwhere, there is always the old "Ballista in a Bag of Holding" trick.

A swivel gun is statted as a small siege weapon that mounts on the rail of a ship. It does 3d6 damage, and can be reloaded in 2 rounds by a single character. I've asked him how exactly he wants to 'wield' one since they aren't designed to be handheld weapons. I don't know if he actually wants to be able to carry one around and fire it, or if he just wants to mount on one the rail and use it when they're boarding other ships and stuff.


Demolitions Expert: Now here comes the tricky part. There are not really any classes I can think of that really scream "Demolitions". Refluffed Beads of Fireball are always fun, but basing a class off of buying consumable items gets expensive fast, and besides taking the Grenedier feat for a measly +2 damage with grenade like weapons, there isn't really any way to specialize in explosives.

One thing you might look into is porting the Alchemist class over from Pathfinder. or at least stealing it's Bomb mechanics.

I've asked him to clarify this as well. Since guns are being used, he could make gunpowder bombs, which I've also statted up. They're relatively cheap, but don't do much more damage than alchemist's fire. I may look into porting the alchemist.

[ericgrau]

The danger of craft (ship) is that D&D crafting is incredibly slow and impractical for an adventurer. And it only makes mundane ships. A feat to provide magical modifications to a pre-existing mundane ship is more useful in D&D. Craft might still be useful for minor repairs, but he should get a custom feat on top of that.

The swivel cannon and demolitions expert probably requires a custom class, or at least a few feats.

[BRC]

If he does want to "Wield" a Swivel gun, look into his playing a Goliath from Races of Stone. Their Powerful Build ability lets them act as Large, so they should be capable of wielding said swivel gun.

Of course, a large Great Crossbow (Same book) deals 3d8 and only takes one round to reload. It's an exotic weapon, but so would be an unmounted swivel gun.

How is he picturing this character doing Demolitions. Are we looking at somebody who throws grenades, or somebody who plants a charge then moves to a safe distance before lighting a fuse.

[Arcanist]

The danger of craft (ship) is that D&D crafting is incredibly slow and impractical for an adventurer. And it only makes mundane ships. A feat to provide magical modifications to a pre-existing mundane ship is more useful in D&D. Craft might still be useful for minor repairs, but he should get a custom feat on top of that.

Just fall back on the good 'ol craft wondrous items :smallsmile:

[molten_dragon]

How is he picturing this character doing Demolitions. Are we looking at somebody who throws grenades, or somebody who plants a charge then moves to a safe distance before lighting a fuse.

I'm still waiting for an answer to that.

[Drelua]

The danger of craft (ship) is that D&D crafting is incredibly slow and impractical for an adventurer. And it only makes mundane ships. A feat to provide magical modifications to a pre-existing mundane ship is more useful in D&D. Craft might still be useful for minor repairs, but he should get a custom feat on top of that.

The swivel cannon and demolitions expert probably requires a custom class, or at least a few feats.

Since you're already looking at Pathfinder stuff, you should check out the Trapper (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/trapper) Ranger archetype. The only class feature it replaces seems to be spellcasting, so you could just use it with the 3.5 Ranger. The damage may not be very high, but I don't see anything stopping him from trapping the hell out of one square with enough time and gunpowder. d6+ranger level? Not much. 10d6+10xranger level? Now we're talking. :smallamused: Keep in mind that I haven't read the full rules on traps, so I could be wrong about some of this.

The biggest problem I can see is a Reflex DC save of 10+half level+WIS to negate all damage, but at least evasion shouldn't apply. Besides, fill that space with enough traps and they're bound to fail a few saves.

[Gavinfoxx]

If you want to make a ship quickly, you want access to:

A very very high craft shipbuilding score, probably also: craft woodworking, craft metallurgy, craft glassblowing

And you want access to as many castings of as many of these spells as possible:

Wall of Iron
Plant Growth
Ironwood
Wall of Stone
Stone Shape
Greater Stone Shape
Transmute Stone to Sand
Transmute Sand to Glass
Transmute Metal to Wood
Stone Metamorphosis
Clearstone
Permanency
Unseen Crafter
Hardening
Shape Metal
Metal Melt
Magecraft
Fabricate

I'd suggest Archivist to get all of those spells (there are ways to make them Divine spells), or perhaps just Artificer.

Also, relevant:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aG4P3dU6WP3pq8mW9l1qztFeNfqQHyI22oJe09i8KWw/edit?pli=1

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14zilT4WGOyHM0AfpG4-GmD2FkgDg1HZ9HC1cTleQHds/edit?pli=1

[Talionis]

Techsmith (of Gond). Its in Faiths and Pantheons. They are an inventor class that gets proficiency with Firearms and Demolitions. They even get a robot to follow them around.

Then I'd look at the Warforged grafts to actually have the strength to carry that kind of weapon. Of course I'm sure there are other ways to boost strength.

You might also look at a Goliath race. Anything that can be a size larger than it is.

Good luck!

[Azoth]

Gotta say, Archivist seems best. Though a few vials of stone breaker's acid does wonders for demolition as do fountain head arrows. There are alchemical items scattered through splat books designed to cause fun amounts of damage to all kinds of things. To get around energy immunities we have: alchemists fire, acid, acidic fire, frost spark, sonic grenades, razor ice powder, beads of force, and much much more. Couple those grenadelike weapons with a rogue, and you have a scary grenadier.

[Juntao112]

If you use Bard as the base class, you can use Bardic Knack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236933) ACF from the PHB2 to trade bardic knowledge for virtual ranks in any skill equal to half your Bard level rounded up. The Bard spell Improvisation from the SpC can give luck bonuses to skill checks on top of that. A dip in the Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) class will let you add your Cha bonus to skills involving one stat depending on the aura you choose - perhaps Dexterity?

Incidentally, if you want a great swashbuckling pirate build, you can find the Iron Chef Dread Pirate contest for great examples. There's also this (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?327699-Shiver-Me-Timbers-It-s-Black-Jack-Wellesley!) gem from EN World.

[toapat]

Midgard Dwarf (Frostburn), Losing the Starting feats, hitdice, and LA. This is not particularly overpowered (for the task at least, gotta keep some divine bolts on hand though) considering he wants a Ship mounted Gun, this also gives us the space for the PrCs he needs.

He will need a combination of Legendary Captain and Master Siege Engineer. As a PC, he will have enough wealth to invest well in his ship, so long as he has the Landlord feat.

His build should look something like this:

Open:
Open:
Open:
Open:
Open:
Master Siege Engineer:
Master Siege Engineer:
Master Siege Engineer:
Master Siege Engineer: Landlord*
Master Siege Engineer:
Legendary Captain:
Legendary Captain:
Legendary Captain:
Legendary Captain:
Legendary Captain:
Legendary Captain:
Legendary Captain:
Legendary Captain:
Legendary Captain:
Legendary Captain:

*this will bring his WBL upto 1,000,000 at lvl 20, although he gets slightly more for it being a ship instead of a building. It should cost 807g 50 sp before materials to make the vehicle, with between a +10% to -2% cost modification depending on where he uses the Drydock. (400g Barracks + 250g Servants Quarters + Study/Office (Basic) 200g, -5% base cost for being mobile)

If he builds a drydock, that will cost 15,000gp or more.

he will also be able to enchant his ship and cannons for 4% cost, letting him be a true lordly captain

Edit: A realistically sized ship, such as that i priced out, costs an additional +7500 GP for him, as he must enchant the entire ship to be airtight, and then must have a number of expensive modifications applied to it to allow mobility, and the types of mobility. at Lvl 9 alone the ship will wipe out his WBL if he doesnt use crafting reduction costs