"Advancing" a Core Race

[Sugashane]

My group I'm DMing likes to go off the beaten path with their PCs. One brought the idea of his new character being an advanced human, just meaning moving his size to large, getting the +8 to STR, -2 DEX, +4 CON, and +2 to natural armor (MM p. 291). Now on pg. 294 it says there should be a +1 to CR due to moving to large size, but that is a considerable boost to his attributes. I am thinking this should be a +1 to level adjustment, as other than the reach all the benefits are listed above.

Any other reason the level adjustment shouldn't be +1? Any argument for a +2?

[Drelua]

My group I'm DMing likes to go off the beaten path with their PCs. One brought the idea of his new character being an advanced human, just meaning moving his size to large, getting the +8 to STR, -2 DEX, +4 CON, and +2 to natural armor (MM p. 291). Now on pg. 294 it says there should be a +1 to CR due to moving to large size, but that is a considerable boost to his attributes. I am thinking this should be a +1 to level adjustment, as other than the reach all the benefits are listed above.

Any other reason the level adjustment shouldn't be +1? Any argument for a +2?

To me this doesn't seem that powerful for a +1; Lolth-Touched is +6 Strength and Constitution, +4 Hide and Move silently, and immunity to fear for +1. I'd leave it at +1 unless you want to make him take a few extra Humanoid HD for +1 CR per 4. Say, give him 2 or 3 HD for a total of +2 CR, counting the size increase as 1 1/2 or 1 1/4, respectively. Of course, this requires that you ignore the rules for ECL, but that might be a good idea anyway. :smallamused:

Edit: other posters have brought it to my attention that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Disregard the above nonsense.

[Flickerdart]

Humans do not advance by hit dice, so you can't actually do that (because there's nothing to advance). Direct him to the Half-Ogre (Races of Destiny) which is a Large monstrous humanoid with similar modifiers for +2 LA, then just swap the type to humanoid, and use that?

[ericgrau]

It is too much for LA 1. Some of the best LA 1 races in existence merely tie it. Unless you allow those races too and everyone else is playing half-minotaur mineral warrior goliaths (or w/e, I forget if mineral warrior is a template or a race). Rare races like that or ones that require dark and/or hard to obtain and/or mind sacrificing rituals are not good examples to compare to. So barring all that it needs to be LA 2.

Though for large size on a non-monster I think it should be +2 str, -2 dex and +1 natural armor. With that and other benefits of being large like reach, grapple and trip bonuses it could be LA 1. Especially if he remains humanoid. Then he could carry potions of reduce person for tight spaces.

But yeah either way works so you could let him choose or refluff a similar race as suggested.

[Sugashane]

Humans do not advance by hit dice, so you can't actually do that (because there's nothing to advance). Direct him to the Half-Ogre (Races of Destiny) which is a Large monstrous humanoid with similar modifiers for +2 LA, then just swap the type to humanoid, and use that?

I know they don't but he has a few fluff reasons that it could serve as a cause for the size. Descendant of a half-giant or dragon, or even from a half-titan from bastard and bloodlines book, but the size was all that came to be present. This isn't a concern though, just looking for a thought on the proper level adjustment to ensure balance at low levels.

I allow some homebrewed races as well as a lot of third-party material. He is by and far the most spectacular roleplayer, often getting an idea for a build and then creating the history for said character, then making the character to fill the desired progression. from what he has described to me, it seems as if he wants to do an orphan role and be a "protector of the lands" as he further progresses. It seems like a boosted version of Wulfgar from Forgotten Realms and Allanon from the Shannara series balled into one.

[silverwolfer]

http://gymflow100.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/bodybuilding-arnold-schwarzenegger-Picture.jpg

2 HD extra for humans

[Flickerdart]

I know they don't but he has a few fluff reasons that it could serve as a cause for the size.
If it's for fluff reasons, then refluffing half-ogre is enough. If he objects, then he's after the mechanics, which are ridiculously imbalanced.

[Magesmiley]

I'd also direct him to the half-ogre. I've seen them in action on several occasions and I think that it is priced about right at LA +2.

No books handy, but if I recall the half-ogre is significantly worse off in the ability modifiers than what he is proposing. Without major additional ability penalties I'd actually think real hard about making it a +3 LA myself, especially if he is going to be large-sized and still humanoid (two words: Enlarge Person).

[Waker]

If you wanted to advance a core race, you could consider using the Paragon classes from Unearthed Arcana. They are a sort of prestige class for the races that embodies what it is supposed to be to be a member of a certain race. Each of them is a three-level progression.

[Sugashane]

I think that settle it then. I will give him the half-ogre as a humanoid race then alter a bit.

He will have:
+6 STR
+2 CON
Drop the natural armor to +2
Ignore the -2 to INT and CHA
Lose the darkvision
Keep the extra feat being human
_______________________
All for only a +2 LA

We start at level 3 anyway so this will work out beautifully. Thanks for all the input guys!