Perfect Combo question

[Iamtheend]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.html

The comic talks about 15 foot reach and using combat reflexes to get 2 AoO's. In 3 did every threatened square moved out of provoke an AoO? If not, then where does this attack beyond the first come from that is being mentioned to make use of combat reflexes?

I am currently playing Pathfinder and used to play 3.5 and I don't see where the AoO comes from by just simply having an enemy charge at you, beyond the first attack for moving out of a square. If it's tripping and getting a free attack, then what is the use of Combat Reflexes in the comic?

[Xervous]

You provoke for every square you leave that is threatened.

In order to attack with a reach of 5, which is what Roy has, you need to be adjacent. This leads to the 15 ft gap, two squares that need to be covered by the charge.

[Iamtheend]

Maybe I misread something real bad, but before I had the same idea and was presented that I was doing it wrong. I thought that if i took an AoO for general movement like that, then I couldn't take another AoO for the character moving anymore that round as long as it was the same kind of movement. Being that if they ran by me, I couldn't just go on a whacking spree.

So every square an enemy runs though that I threaten, I may take an AoO as long as I have enough with my Dex along with Combat Reflexes? Enemy runs around me for no reason for their entire turn, and I may keep swinging until I'm out once each square?

[BowStreetRunner]

From the SRD: "Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent."

[Iamtheend]

Sorry for the double post, but this is what is written for pathfinder, and I'm pretty sure it's similar to 3.5

"Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus."

from here http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html

[Iamtheend]

From the SRD: "Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent."

Okay, so please explain that to me if you could plainly, then apply it to the comic if you could.

[tyckspoon]

No. That strip is just wrong- any given action only provokes once. There is a feat called "Hold The Line" that causes charging to be a provoking action and would make the combo work as described (1 AoO for Charging, 1 for moving through threatened area) but it would require yet another feat.

(Also reach doesn't work that way either- a Large creature with a Reach weapon should have 20ft reach.)

You can treat it a couple of ways: In OotsLand, Attacks of Opportunity work differently and what the half-ogre is doing does actually work the way he's describing. Or Rich forgot a relatively minor point of the rules, and just pretend the half-ogre is only getting one AoO each cycle (it's still a decent trick, since he gets 2 attacks to the single one Roy gets by Charging). Or the half-ogre is cheating, and Roy doesn't understand Attacks of Opportunity well enough to call him out on it and stop him.

[BowStreetRunner]

Remember he said he used 5 feats to do this...and that he wanted to make him charge each time...I would think that one of these was Hold the Line. It causes you to provoke an attack of opportunity for ENTERING a threatened square when you charge. So now he is provoking one for entering and one for leaving. Two AoO.

Five feats:
- Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spike Chain
- Combat Reflexes
-- Hold the Line
- Combat Expertise
-- Improved Trip

[tyckspoon]

Dodge
-Mobility
--Spring Attack
Combat Reflexes
Exotic Weapon Proficiency

Those are the assumed 5 feats, although if you wanted to make the combo work badly enough you could technically use the Spiked Chain without the Proficiency feat. Hold the Line would make it 6 feats, and Combat Expertise -> Imp. Trip (although generally a good investment for a Large character using a Spiked Chain) would make it 8 as well as needing stat points in Intelligence to qualify.

[Iamtheend]

I ignored the 20 ft correction and was wondering if I have been doubling up on screwing up. Originally I was using the right rules, then I saw this strip along with my friends and we figure it AoO fest. I switched back upon reading the SRD again and forgetting what is described in the comic. I would love more AoO's for my AoO dude, but that would mean getting stomped on by other monsters in game.

Thanks for the help.

[Dusk Eclipse]

IIRC The Giant admited he screwed up the AoO rules in that particular strip.

[herrhauptmann]

Okay, so please explain that to me if you could plainly, then apply it to the comic if you could.

I'm a giant and have a spiked chain, and you're out of my reach(more than 20ft, or 4 squares away). My only relevant feats are EWP:Chain, and combat reflexes.
Scenarios 1 and 3 are most relevant to the comic.

scenario 1:
You charge me.
On your charge, you enter my outermost square of reach(20ft). If I had hold the line, steadfast boots, or several other things, I'd get an AOO now, but I don't.
You leave that first square and enter the next one(15ft). You've left a threatened square. This provokes an AOO, and happens before you actually enter that next square.
I hit you with my AOO, but you keep on moving.
You enter the next square (10ft). This does not provoke, because you've moved and provoked already from me on this turn.
You enter the next square (5ft). This does not provoke, because you've moved and provoked already from me on this turn.
Not that you're adjacent, you attack me.
Scenario 2.

You move towards me to hit me with a touch range spell.
On your move, you enter my outermost square of reach(20ft). This does not provoke.
You leave that first square and enter the next one(15ft). You've left a threatened square. This provokes an AOO, and happens before you actually enter that next square.
I hit you with my AOO, but you keep on moving.
You enter the next square (10ft). This does not provoke, because you've moved and provoked already from me on this turn.
You enter the next square (5ft). This does not provoke, because you've moved and provoked already from me on this turn.
Now that you're adjacent, you cast your touch range spell without casting defensively and THAT provokes. I hit you for being dumb.

In this one, I'm not sure if casting a second spell (perhaps a quickened spell, or use a belt of battle for a standard) would provoke again. I think it would, because it's a brand new spell and a separate action on your part.

Scenario 3

You use a belt of battle or travel devotion for a free move action, intending to do a full attack.
On your move, you enter my outermost square of reach(20ft). This does not provoke.
You leave that first square and enter the next one(15ft). You've left a threatened square. This provokes an AOO, and happens before you actually enter that next square.
I hit you with my AOO, but you keep on moving.
You enter the next square (10ft). This does not provoke, because you've moved and provoked already from me on this turn.
You enter the next square (5ft). This does not provoke, because you've moved and provoked already from me on this turn.
Now that you're adjacent, you continue your move action and circle around me for a flanking bonus. This does not provoke, because you've moved and provoked already from me on this turn.
You perform a full attack.

[Greenish]

Scenario 2.

You move towards me to hit me with a touch range spell.
On your move, you enter my outermost square of reach(20ft). This does not provoke.
You leave that first square and enter the next one(15ft). You've left a threatened square. This provokes an AOO, and happens before you actually enter that next square.
I hit you with my AOO, but you keep on moving.
You enter the next square (10ft). This does not provoke, because you've moved and provoked already from me on this turn.
You enter the next square (5ft). This does not provoke, because you've moved and provoked already from me on this turn.
Now that you're adjacent, you cast your touch range spell without casting defensively and THAT provokes. I hit you for being dumb.

In this one, I'm not sure if casting a second spell (perhaps a quickened spell, or use a belt of battle for a standard) would provoke again. I think it would, because it's a brand new spell and a separate action on your part.
Note that you can move between casting the spell and making the touch attack, in which case you'd only provoke from the movement.