9/9/9/9 caster build

[searlefm]

hello ladies gentlemen and household pets with awaken cased on them.

i seen countless builds online that push a caster to being level 9/9, (equivalent 18/18)
this is impressive but i find that you are missing out a fer few spells a day and although
the spells a day limit can be increased getting more efficient levels is a real help.

so i made my own build that can achieve 9/9/9/9 (each of them is equivalent 20)
and has a bardic knowledge and level ability that lets you play as the god emperor of man kind.

First
accept that there are going to be some flaw involved 5 of them in face,
and i know flaws are the worst thing in the world DM side,
but PC's there the difference between can and cant on epic builds,
although with out them the build can only achieve all 16 equivalent,
or skipping the classes that grant the nice abilities I'm using.

Race
for the Race you MUST play as a Illumian from Races of Destiny,
they get a lot of nice flavor in there set up all we care about is this
''Power Sigils (Su)''
that you get at first and second level each time chose Krau,
to get a handy +2 bonus to you spellcaster level
(yes that right +2 to the amount of spell you can cast and know)
now we've got that onto the next bit


The Classes
for divine i chose 'Faith Caster' is a spontaneous caster,
this'll help in later levels as we cant afford quickened arcane/divine magic
with out silly numbers of flaws,
'Sorcerer' is the arcane portions for the same reason as above
i use 'Erudite' in this build as its a psion(or at least a psion variant)
with no limit to what can be learnt in total
to be the emperor don't we
And a 'Incarnate' because prestige's that increase caster level
also affect this class as well,
that and i love to have a billowing clock of flames.

the prestige can be done in almost any order but some have opposing required,
so you need to find the right order (by the way there is one)
so in no particulate order 'Fochlucan Lyrist' is in for a token Bardic knowledge and bardic music,
it might not be much but Bardic powers are helpful for and Cha based character.
'Arcane Hierophant' also gains a token level although it cost you your familiar for a Companion familiar,
it gives you 'ignore arcane spell failure'
so you can be a magi in plate mail
'Divine Oracle' 's there to give you a dodge chance that anyone would fall in love with.
'Harper Paragon' is there to give you preferred enemy (EVIL),
that's 1/3 of all alignments you're now specialized against.
and then polished of with 'Heart Warder' for huge bonus to you Cha

The Core Classes
faith caster 2 (Path of Faith p87)
sorcerer 2 (PH)
Incarnate 2 (MoI)
Erudite (variant psion) 2 (CP)

The Prestige Classes
Fochlucan Lyrist 1 (CAd)
Arcane Hierophant 1 (RW)
Divine Oracle 2 (CD)
Harper Paragon 2 (PG)
Heart Warder 6 (FP)

HD:
8d4
10d6
2d10



Feats
all of the following are ether required to make the build reach straight 20's or there a
Prestige classes requirement and this is with the least requirement in feat's possible
Dodge (PH)
Mobility (PH)
Exotic Weapon Preference (Whip) (PH) (yes i know a whip's a little girly
but what can you do about it other than request
your DM allows the class to use a claymore)
Skill Focus (Knowledge [religion]) (PH)
Sacred Vow (BE)
Vow of Obedience (BE)
Lost Traditions (to become Cha based) (Bastards & Bloodlines)
Practiced Spell caster x3 (once per spellcaster involved) (CAr)
Practiced Manifester (and for the psion variant involved) (CP)
Alternate Spell Source (Dragon #325) (the only feat that is optional
in this build that i recommend you take unless you insane or don't like having hundreds of spells)



Outcome
This gives you a magi that can dodge almost any airier affect spell even if wearing armor,
that doesn't even cause an Arcane failure chance, and so much Charisma that's its redundant per epic,
and the ability to mack anyone love you.
The best part is the core classes are interchangeable with any other core caster class that whoever using this can decide
wile enjoy as equivalent caster level of 80.

If you give this build some Orange Ioun Stone Orange for +1 caster level to each casting class, giving you a. . . .
(I'm not sure so i put all possibility i want the 3rd one the correct,
bit think the second one the correct way or aplying the rulling)
+4 if it just affect's core classes ones.
+7 if it affect's all classes equally.
+24 if it affect's all classes Prestige's as leveling them up would.

that's a CL 80 + Orange Ioun Stone's (say 10) x 4 or 7 or 24
giving you a CL of 120 or 150 or 320
(Hmmm.. maybe i should give this a name with pun in it)

the variant class of this build is to just take 'Mystic Theurge' and 'Fochlucan Lyrist' as the Prestige classes then to use those 7 feats you save take an additional flaw to get a feat combos
Quicken Spell,Silent Spell,Still Spell,
innate Spell x2 (Wish/miracle)
Supernatural Transformation x2 (Wish/miracle)

or as before take 'Mystic Theurge' and 'Fochlucan Lyrist' as the Prestige classes and then remove the flaws as there no longer needed.
now and cheat wishes with the Feats Eschew Materials, Ignore Material Components and claim to have used Power Components when casting.

after selecting a variant class commence devalue Wish and miracle to a point where there the essay way of spell casting.
(n wait its variant's are the puns)

Enjoy and mack your DM cry the next time you play epic

[TopCheese]

I'm completely sure that I don't know if it works...

But level 20 isn't epic though if it works you are playing epically.

[Acanous]

Flaws are usualy limited to 2 in situations where they are allowed. 5 is an extremely special circumstance, but given your first point, I cede that this build is contingeant upon being allowed five and continue.

the bonus to Caster Level from Krau sigil doesn't actually add to your ability to learn higher level spells. It's a flat bonus to things like dispel checks, rolls VS Spell Resistance, and the duration your spells stick around.
It has been a while since I last read Races of Destiny, so I could be missing a very, highly important line of text that says they also get +Effective level on the spell progression chart, but to my knowledge the only things that do that are Loredrake and that ritual Kobolds can get.

I am somewhat stumped by your choices for base casting class, as spontanious casters get their spells a level later than prepared, but let's continue reading.



I'm checking your Prestige classes, and ....I think you have been misinformed on what "Bonus to Caster level" means.

while I applaud your use of Arcane Heirophant, it is the ONLY class you have in there that makes any sense. The Lyrist looks like you're going for Sublime chord, which also makes sense, but it's not listed.

[Randomguy]

You don't have evasion (unless faith caster grants it, I don't know that class) so you don't qualify for Fochlucan Lyrist. Same with trackless step and Arcane Heirophant.

Also, +X to CL does not give you more spells known or spell slots or spells per day or anything. A level Fighter 4/Wizard 5 with practiced spellcaster still casts spells as a level 5 wizard, but he would have a caster level of 9, so his fireball would do 9d6 damage and his summon monster 3 would last 9 rounds. He still wouldn't be able to cast 4th level spells though. So at least some of the stuff you're doing there (like the stuff with Krau sigil) is wrong.

[BowStreetRunner]

for the Race you MUST play as a Illumian from Races of Destiny,
they get a lot of nice flavor in there set up all we care about is this
''Power Sigils (Su)''
that you get at first and second level each time chose Krau,
to get a handy +2 bonus to you spellcaster level
(yes that right +2 to the amount of spell you can cast and know)
now we've got that onto the next bit

Well, you are almost right here...first, it says that when you gain second level you gain a second different power sigil. So you can't take Krau twice. But it also says that the bonus granted by each power sigil increases to +2. So you do have a +2 bonus to CL for all Spells and SLAs up to a max of your character level.

[Phelix-Mu]

I guess that I've only been on the forum a couple of weeks, but I am kind of surprised that this is the first crazy illumian build that I've seen. Granted this one seems to have a few kinks, but there definitely seems to be some room for cool, unusual builds involving the Power Sigils racial ability. That and that very cool PrC from Races of Destiny that has all the illumian flavor, Shadow Sentinel was it?

Are there more illumians out there lurking?

On a side note, I have to give props to anyone that goes for Arcane Hierophant. Personally, I find that an Int/Wis approach to dual casting is nice, not quite as optimized as beguiler/wiz/ultimate magus or wiz/archivist/mystic theurge, but it has some cool perks for adding a second dual-spellcasting class, and I favor prepared casters anyway.

The goal outlined by the OP is very ambitious without epic levels. Bordering on mathematically impossible, but I imagine it would be good to start with three casting classes with max-level casting? Mystic theurge or cerebremancer is a logical next step, since neither of those has huge bars to entry.

[Bang]

I've spent 5 minutes looking for a part of this build that indicates the OP has the foggiest idea how the relevant rules work. I'll let you know if I run into it.

[SaintRidley]

I've spent 5 minutes looking for a part of this build that indicates the OP has the foggiest idea how the relevant rules work. I'll let you know if I run into it.

Don't worry, you won't find anything.

[TuggyNE]

Yeah, the main problem with this is that CL boosts do not work that way. Krau does not increase spellcaster class levels in any fashion, and orange ioun stone doesn't either.


I guess that I've only been on the forum a couple of weeks, but I am kind of surprised that this is the first crazy illumian build that I've seen. Granted this one seems to have a few kinks, but there definitely seems to be some room for cool, unusual builds involving the Power Sigils racial ability. That and that very cool PrC from Races of Destiny that has all the illumian flavor, Shadow Sentinel was it?

Are there more illumians out there lurking?

I've seen a few; illumians are sometimes used for less ambitious early entry tricks, for example, and there's probably a Cancer Mage+festering strength build that uses ... whatever the sigil is that gives Str mod bonus spells. But you're right, they don't seem to be tremendously common in TO for some reason.

[SowZ]

Yeah, you probably won't grasp all the relevant rules to something like this until you have spent a decent amount of time talking on boards like this one, even if you are a well played player and have good optimization senses at the table. This build doesn't really work, but don't be discouraged from finding out why and fixing this to be the best it can be.

[Acanous]

that said, I HAVE seen a 4 9's build on the forums...somewhere. I remember it started out as Warblade, went into Ur-Priest and Beholder Mage, then Theurged those while adding Wild Talent. Ended up with 9's in Arcane, Divine, Psionic and Maneuvers.

Not that I can find it with the search function down, but..

[Morph Bark]

that said, I HAVE seen a 4 9's build on the forums...somewhere. I remember it started out as Warblade, went into Ur-Priest and Beholder Mage, then Theurged those while adding Wild Talent. Ended up with 9's in Arcane, Divine, Psionic and Maneuvers.

Not that I can find it with the search function down, but..

Did it go into any psionic PrCs with powers of their own? Otherwise it wouldn't work, as you can't get psionic powers beyond level 1 through feats alone.

With Ardent you can make it work though. I've done it before, but that was ages ago. Wonder if I could re-create that build...

[Ashtagon]

"+2 CL" doesn't mean you get more spells per day. It only means your effective caster level for determining the range, area, etc. of your spells is higher.

With such a fundamental flaw at the start, I don't think it's worth analysing this build in detail.

[Larkas]

that said, I HAVE seen a 4 9's build on the forums...somewhere. I remember it started out as Warblade, went into Ur-Priest and Beholder Mage, then Theurged those while adding Wild Talent. Ended up with 9's in Arcane, Divine, Psionic and Maneuvers.

Not that I can find it with the search function down, but..

Hmmm, I've seen a topic on that a short time ago. Was this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246321) it?

[BowStreetRunner]

This does make me curious about how good Illumian with Krau & one other Sigil would be with Practiced Spellcaster. That's a total of +6 to caster level (up to max of character level/hit die). Even a straight Paladin or Ranger would benefit from this - although it would be far more useful on a gish build with more offensive spells with a saving throw.

[Kurald Galain]

so i made my own build that can achieve 9/9/9/9 (each of them is equivalent 20)
and has a bardic knowledge and level ability that lets you play as the god emperor of man kind.

That reminds me of something... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3945177)

[Morph Bark]

That reminds me of something... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3945177)

That one doesn't work though, as Anima Mage specifically requires binding from a class feature, rather than feats.

[searlefm]

well my 2 O'clock morning insanity was shot down harshly,
and the worst part is you shot it down by being correct

the stones are just there so you can cast spell with a reasonable bonus,
and serve no real worth other that being there.

i personally thought the Sigils and feat did allow for extra spellscaster level progression of spells a day.

and i chose the incarnate and Erudite as they are both casting class,
and with the ruling in complete divine and the wizard of the cost FAQ's
you can spend the Erudite power points on spells at the cost of one point per spell level.
incarnate point cant be siphoned across tho,
but a high level incarnate is defiantly worth the effort
even if it is just to use some soul melds.

if you know of any way to archive this please tell other than possibly 1/1/1/1 all non spontaneous to get the 9th level spells quicker on you core classes and Divine Oracl 10(it has good class bonuses) and Mystic Theurge 6

i suppose i have to delete me account now waste a few weeks wile you forget abought me come up with a better build than get a new account and have that as my first post.

[WinWin]

That one doesn't work though, as Anima Mage specifically requires binding from a class feature, rather than feats.

It requires the ability to bind 2nd level Vestiges.

No specificity with regards class or class features.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

i suppose i have to delete me account now waste a few weeks wile you forget abought me come up with a better build than get a new account and have that as my first post.

Wait, what? I really don't think people mind you being incorrect anywhere NEAR enough for that to be necessary.

[Morph Bark]

No, he's right. I was wrong about the vestige thing, for instance. If I don't delete my account right now, I'll be forced to go the Way of the Samurai at dawn!


(I kid, you don't need to delete anything. :smallwink: And I see I remembered wrong. I thought the soul-binding class feature of the Anima Mage only increased existing class abilities of the sort, but I now see that it prettymuch grants the class feature if you do not already have Binder class levels. Huh.)

[Psyren]

The missing piece of the puzzle for the Illumian is that you need the Improved Sigil (Krau) feat. This raises the effective level of one spell you know (e.g. Sleep would become a second-level spell); this trick is used similarly to Precocious Apprentice to enable early qualification for certain PrCs, particularly for divine casters.

[searlefm]

No, he's right. I was wrong about the vestige thing, for instance. If I don't delete my account right now, I'll be forced to go the Way of the Samurai at dawn!

i have a perfectly good Bushido,
i got it off some proud short person dresses like it was the 12centuary when i want to japan.

you have no idea how funny the look's you get at customs for bring the shogunate head through.

i just wanted to mack a build that would mack people cry if you tried to play it
to i point where they let you be a 'Favored Soul', troll blooded, half vampire, Acid born, fire genasi, with a life steal weapon.


and thanks Psyren ill look into that now.
with fast healing 1/, Regeneration 1/acid(immune) fire(but you should have healing flames and immunity)
as the lesser of 2 evils