Disguise Self RAW/RAI

[Razanir]

How exactly does Disguise Self give a bonus to Disguise?


A342 partial
Assuming you mean interact as in "make my hair longer and then pull on the end of it," then no.


The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form, nor does it alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of you or your equipment.

"Abilities" can include "ability to be touched," which is explicitly called out when it says "perceived tactile properties." You can add extra hair with the spell, but you can't touch it.

What exactly is the extent of "tactile properties?" Let's say you use it to make a skirt. Well it swaying as you walk instead of hanging there limp depends on you being able to interact with it. If "tactile properties" is so all-encompassing, how does it make for a believable disguise at all?

[BowStreetRunner]

Tactile refers to the sense of touch. So if they touch you, they will feel something different from what they see. You will still look like you are interacting with your clothing, hair, etc. but another person touching those things will not feel them.

[SilverLeaf167]

What about Changelings? Their transformation is an actual physical change and not just an illusion, yet apparently according to RAW it works exactly as the Disguise Self spell and thus couldn't change their tactile properties.

I mean, I'd definitely houserule it as being able to change what people feel when they touch you, and probably also allow you to change your voice (an audible change), but how does it really work based on RAW?

[Story]

It does seem like a silly rule. Of course if they touch you, they get a will save to disbelieve the illusion anyway.

[Razanir]

My interpretation is that the rule about tactile changes only applies to other people. Other people meaning everyone besides the target and maybe the caster

[Slipperychicken]

My interpretation is that the rule about tactile changes only applies to other people. Other people meaning everyone besides the target and maybe the caster

I say it's essentially a highly-sophisticated hologram. Visible, and moves with you, but your hands go right through it. You appear to have extra hair, or clothes, of whatever, but you don't. If you're nude and use Disguise Self to create illusory clothes, it *looks* like you're fully dressed, but you still feel the wind on your skin, and anyone touching you passes through the clothes and feels skin instead of cloth (so triggering the Will save).

['Able' Xanthis]

What about Changelings? Their transformation is an actual physical change and not just an illusion, yet apparently according to RAW it works exactly as the Disguise Self spell and thus couldn't change their tactile properties.

I mean, I'd definitely houserule it as being able to change what people feel when they touch you, and probably also allow you to change your voice (an audible change), but how does it really work based on RAW?

As an actual physical change to the body I have always houseruled it to be what it is. That said Changelings are great when this houserule is applied as they are suddenly one of the few people who can have True Sight looking at them and not even be bothered, it is their Real body after all.

[Deophaun]

As an actual physical change to the body I have always houseruled it to be what it is. That said Changelings are great when this houserule is applied as they are suddenly one of the few people who can have True Sight looking at them and not even be bothered, it is their Real body after all.
Adding immunity to true seeing would be the actual house rule, as the Changeling's ability, while like the disguise self spell, is then modified by the rest of minor shape change's description (so yes, it does produce tactile elements, because it is a physical, non-illusory change; you only use disguise self for the parameters that can be changed). Similarly, MSC doesn't last 10 min/level as disguise self, but until the Changeling uses the ability again, because the ability's description overrules disguise self's description.

Yet, minor shape change explicitly calls out that the form can be penetrated by true seeing.

['Able' Xanthis]

Hmm, true but I really don't get why they nerf it that hard, most likely for the LA 0 now that I take a moment. True Sight allows you to see what is Truly there, (EG Illisions aren't going to help you anymore) but the Changeling truly is the shape they present to the world. Ehh it could be argued either way at this point, and now I'm on the fence.

[Phelix-Mu]

As an actual physical change to the body I have always houseruled it to be what it is. That said Changelings are great when this houserule is applied as they are suddenly one of the few people who can have True Sight looking at them and not even be bothered, it is their Real body after all.

Seems like a weird houserule, though, since a quick look at true seeing seems to indicate that the spell would see through a doppelganger or werewolf ("sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things"). Do you also houserule this part out of true seeing (perfectly fine if you do, this spell is extremely un-fun, from DM standpoint, ofc)?

But back to the topic, disguise self is clearly non-tactile, but an actual physical transformation would alter the tactile nature of a thing (though not sure if this is by RAW or by logic). In the spirit of doppelganger, changeling in elf form should have ears that feel like elf ears if they are touched. Doesn't make much sense if it's they still feel like the normal changeling ears (does natural form changeling actually have ears?) but look like elf ears because the changeling's body actually grew some elf ears. Same problems arise with Thousand Faces druid class ability. They needed to add another line or two of errata to clarify the precise difference of this ability from disguise self. Again with the standard complaint about internal consistency and completeness.

[Flickerdart]

My interpretation is that the rule about tactile changes only applies to other people. Other people meaning everyone besides the target and maybe the caster
Disguise Self is self-only. The target is the caster.

[Razanir]

Disguise Self is self-only. The target is the caster.

My bad. Got it mixed up with the version from Ernir's Vancian to Psionic homebrew. For a mere 2 spell points, your choice of friend can join you in the disguising fun!