Class me?

[Dragvandil]

Howdy.

Im going to be joining a 4e campaign, and im having trouble picking a class.

I know I want to be a frontliner, and I want to have magic. Which limits the ole options.

Hexblade Warlock of some pack or other, Swordmage, and Bladesinger.

Non magick-y options include Slayer with Berserker MC, Berserker, and traditional Barbarian.

Im familiar with 4e, and have played some of these classes, but I wanted to hear some input.

[allonym]

Is arcane magic mandatory? There's plenty of divine and primal frontliners.

If you want arcane magic, you can try a con-based melee artificer or a close-blast specialist, such as a dragon sorcerer. Some warlocks like being on the frontlines, in order to get their prime-shot bonuses and use Eldritch Strike.

Edit: Or a melee bard (either valorous or skald)

[Dragvandil]

Sword and spell is more or less the main idea of what i want to be doing.

If the Blade Singer wasnt such a let down there would be no question. (though I'd re flavor it as a Magus.)

The DM might rule that the feat that grants me a bonus wizard daily power works for the Blade Singer, which would seal the deal.

[Kurald Galain]

The DM might rule that the feat that grants me a bonus wizard daily power works for the Blade Singer, which would seal the deal.
I've played wizards since the game's first existence, and I've never heard of this feat.

Why not just play a swordmage? Its fluff is identical to the bladesinger's, and it has mechanics that actually work.

[Dragvandil]

Expanded Spellbook. Some DMs let BS use it to snag some decent Daily powers.

By RAW its not legal, but some DMs allow it to balance out the Bladesingers otherwise lackluster performance. (because using an encounter power in place of a daily is kinda ****.)

And something about the Swordmage has always put me off. I cant really nail it down.

[Dragvandil]

I think its the low damage and not feeling like I am actually using a sword.

The more I look at it, the more I feel like im just not going to find a class I like for this in 4e. I could run a Hybrid Barb/Sorc. (Which can get pretty crazy)

[Kurald Galain]

How about a melee ranger with a wizard multiclass feat?

[Dragvandil]

Would a slayer work for that? (I should have the points to swing a good dex, a good str, and the int I'd need for the MC. DM likes his players powered up.)

[Alan_Pehnereas]

Why not the classic Wizard|Swordmage?

EDIT:

Or, you could try something really weird that I had as a concept a while back.

Step One: The Build
Go with an Eladrin Slayer. Boost Int as though it were your Str, and of course, keep your Dex high.

Step Two: The Feats
At level 1, take the Melee Training feat so you can use Int.

At level 2, retrain your first feat to MC Swordmage and Intelligent Blademaster. Now you get the full benefits of your Int for your MBAs (which you use every turn), and by the wording, your Int can be used for attacks you make with heavy thrown weapons.

Step Three: The Mark
PMC Swordmage. Trade out a stance you don't like for Aegis of Assault. Cheesy? Yes. When making an MBA granted by this power, you can also add all of your bonuses to it, so it'll be striker damage on mark punishment. And since Int is your high

Step Four: The Brains
Found in the page for feats for essentials crossovers, (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/CC_Feats.pdf) there's a feat called Martial-Cross Training, and will let you swap out a use of Power Strike for a power from your class.

This'll let the encounter power-swap feat you made actually worth something, as this can be traded for an equal-leveled Swordmage power. As you level, you should also be able to keep retraining for a new Swordmage power whenever you can receive a new encounter power.

Also, since you PMC'd Swordmage, you'll be getting Swordmage powers. Aren't you glad you're Int based?

ALT VERSION
Half-Elf with Dilettante for Eldritch Strike.
Instead of boosting Int, boost Cha. Take the Versatile Dilettante feat.
PMC Swordmage to take the Aegis, but your powers can still be from a Cha based class.

Page where Eldritch Strike is found (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mi/20090408a)
Closeup of the card previewed, featuring the power (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mi20090408a_card.jpg)

If you go with this version, your MBA is arcane in nature. It still gets all the nice beefy Slayer benefits, can be used with your Aegis punishment, and can be boosted with those White Lotus feats.

Also, the powers you take can be arcane, too.

[Alejandro]

What are the other players playing?

[dariathalon]

Maybe a bard or its little brother a skald. Both of which can cast spells and be built for front line.

[Sol]

I'd probably just refluff an Avenger. An Avenger of Corellon doesn't even really have to refluff to blur the line between divine and arcane.

[Tegu8788]

Chaladin that MCs or hybrids with Sorcerer, Bard, or Warlock can make for a solid front line sword and sorcery character. Virtuous Strike can be turned into an arcane attack even for the cost of a single feat. I also second the idea of being an "X of Corellon."

[Dimers]

For a weapon-using, semi-magical frontliner, I'd say Battlemind. They can do some clearly supernatural tricks and they use their mental potency to heighten the effects of their strikes.

[Dragvandil]

Thanks for the time and help guys!

I think that my best option is to go with a Barbarian/Sorcerer. Going to re-flavor him as a Magus (Pathfinder).

Still get to do Strike-y shenanigans, solid AC, and with how my DM is letting us roll, I'll have points spare for Int. (So I can have a semi decent Int score without sacrificing Dex or my attack stats)

Human, Hybrid Talent for Armored Agility and Hide; and that one feat that lets me use my weapon as an implement. Gonna go swords and eventually crank my way up to a Full-blade. Also, I'm grabbing STR for my AC, because nothing is so awesome as a single stat striker. Gonna pick a nice berth of powers (thanks to being human) The one and only Barbarian attack power, and then a couple of sorc powers. I'll reflavor my rages as arcane as well.


*Although I am going to look at chaladin/Sorc options*

[allonym]

Couple of things: Firstly, why do you want dex? Dex is a secondary stat for some sorcerers and essentially secondary for barbarians, but in the latter case this is mostly for AC purposes. If you want int for some reason, you have little use for dex as well. Choose one or the other and take that as your tertiary stat - though with str-to-ac, you won't need it that high anyway. Consider investing in constitution.

Cha and str are your main stats, and you'll want to keep them equally high since you attack with both of them. Several barbarian abilities have charisma riders (those associated with Thaneborn barbarians). The combination can work.

Also, remember that as a hybrid you need to balance the number of powers you take from each class as you level up.

[Dragvandil]

Dex for Initiative.... buuuuuut.

The Chaladin option is pretty hard core. I can use Sorc powers to strike, and Paladin powers to do all sorts of fun things. And not having to invest in STR isn't the worst thing in the world.

My DM is pretty cool about re-flavoring, wont be a pain to re-flavor him to be less divine and more arcane. Also, being a face is awesome.

Naturally I am grabbing Paladin Armor since I am planning on Tanking a lot with this guy, and if you dont have an AC of 18, you are less of a tank and more of a punching bag.

And will indeed keep in mind that I need to balance my powers.

So Chaladin/Sorc is the option I'll be taking. Get to face, and I get to beat the stupid out of people. Sounds about perfect.

I'll end up with 15fort 15 dex, and 16will (sinking the paladin defense point into reflex to shore it up.) not the best nats, but pretty solid.

[Tegu8788]

Thaneborn barbarian powers are your best bet. You may not get the riders without actually being a thaneborn, but the AC is too important to lose. You aren't a one-stat striker, Str is only a rider for sorcerer powers, needing Charisma to-hit. The arcana Chaladin, or better a Chackguard, could be one stat. The only problem is you're in plate armor with a dagger...

But the fluff of the rage mage is wonderful, you get so angry the world around you shatters. You still need that balance of at least one power from each side, but as it turns out, if you selection racial, theme, or skill powers, 0 balances 0.

[allonym]

Take virtuous strike as a paladin at-will (You were going to do that anyway, right, seeing as it is a charisma MBA?) And then take the Power of Arcana feat. Means you can get more mileage out of other things such as the White Lotus feats.

[Dragvandil]

Forgot about the Sorc powers, but still. My AC triggering off of an attack stat is pretty happy.


Still picking between barbarian and Paladin.

Might have to hunt down the Blackguard Hybrid options.

[Tegu8788]

Plate armor is the one you want, the shadow utility is nice, but not nice enough.

And if you go Blackguard or Paladin, I second Power of Arcana Virtuous Strike. Being an MBA, it can be enhanced and used by many things, and being arcane it is open to a lot of stuff your Sorcerous side wants. It won't get the Sorcerer feature bonus, but it will get everything else.

Edit: And remember, this is 4E, where fluff and crunch are completely independent of one another.

[obryn]

You said you're familiar with 4e, so I'll just give a very quick, short note.

Please, please, please don't do Hybrid unless you know exactly what you're doing.

-O

[Tegu8788]

You said you're familiar with 4e, so I'll just give a very quick, short note.

Please, please, please don't do Hybrid unless you know exactly what you're doing.

-O

Don't worry, we can walk him through it. I can build a stronger hybrid than a straight class, for any challenge or level. It's much easier to screw up, but there is pure platinum hidden in the hybrid classes.

[Dragvandil]

Blackguard was tempting, but straight Pally is going to be a better option for me I think.

Also going to take a look at Swordmage/Wizard as an option. (Could be interesting.)

[allonym]

Swordmage|Wizard is a classic combination, both want int, both want to stay away from enemies, swordmage gives you immediate actions, which Wizard doesn't tend to use, then concentrate on wizard powers for the rest. Probably con secondary because shielding swordmage.

[Alpha-21]

I'm currently running a Stormsoul Genasi swordmage. That specific build, I've found to be a great combo if you get stuff like lightning lure, because when you use the power you get with Stormsoul makes lighting and thunder damage do an extra d8 of damage until the end of your next turn.

And a Goliath Battlemind. Which can also be a great combo, if you take the feat that allows you to use your constitution modifier for the attacks with a sword, instead of strength. Because a lot of the battlemind powers use con, so it'd already be high.

[Dragvandil]

Swordmages aren't terrible in combat.... *sigh* if only their damage output was anything near respectable they'd be perfect.

Maybe I should just accept not being a Striker and play a swordmage. (Possibly assault so i can still feel like a striker.)

[obryn]

Swordmages aren't terrible in combat.... *sigh* if only their damage output was anything near respectable they'd be perfect.

Maybe I should just accept not being a Striker and play a swordmage. (Possibly assault so i can still feel like a striker.)
They're Defenders, so damage isn't always a primary concern... But yes, even among other Defenders, their single-target damage is poor.

Shielding Swordmages are pretty awesome, though. Feat-hungry, mind you, but great nonetheless.

-O

[Alpha-21]

Swordmages are classified as Defenders, (I'm assuming), because nearly all their powers mark targets, and they have many powers that can teleport enemies. As well as the whole, "a target you marked attacks an enemy, you can teleport to that target and attack it as an immediate reaction.

We were playing yesterday, and my swordmage was doing a boat load of damage. Did a masive amount of damage over the course of the battle, and took out the most enemies of all the people there.

The daily "vanishing blade" allows you to teleport after every hit with a melee attack as a free action. So, I swung at one enemy, making the killing blow, and immediately teleported over to be adjacent to another enemy that an ally was fighting, putting the target under flanking conditions, marking them with the aegis of assault as a minor, and took them out the next turn, teleporting to the next target afterwards, keeping this going until I didn't hit, which was when we made it to having one enemy left. It was pretty awesome.

So, they play a defender role, but at the same time, if you build them right, they can have the role of a striker at the same time. Plus, most of their attack powers are elemental, so if you have a class that is better with elemental attacks, then it's even better.

[Dragvandil]

tell me more Alpha.

:D

Particularly about how to build one.

[Alan_Pehnereas]

Y'all keep saying you wish you were a striker, but keep talking about the Swordmage. Did you not see my post talking about mixing the two via a Slayer Swordmage?